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Cannibal wrote on 2011-01-29 00:29
Quote from Chromatic;308759:
So true. No upgrade on old hairstyles, g1-g3 is hard as hell compared how to get trans with one elf. When i made my human i was like lv 30. Later on i tried to get trans on one alt and got it below lv 10. This is just ridiculous what humans have to suffer to get trans
Just talking on g2.
-> run barri dungeon countless times
-> find ideals
-> pay for said ideals, some ppl need bribery
-> solo the boss
what elves/giants have to do? chill and chat while waiting for field bosses to spawn
Walking speed, dont even get me started. Human walking speed is just hideous, what devcat thought we're wearing, this?
[Image: http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9243/norm49a81546edae3forres.jpg]
At least 80% of the monsters in this game are faster than humans. Who ever chased a shadow warrior/lancer to smash it and couldn't manage because he kept running off? Then by the time you can hit it, he hits you instead.
Cap quests. Have any human ever did the exploration cap quests without pets? Exploration 10 and 15 are a total nightmare. By the time you get to the statue they already changed.
Generation quests. Who remembers the talk to kristell> tarlach> kristell> tarlach during g1? Or the go to castle and get the mission then go back to altar to run said mission. Gladly i got one eagle before g9 or g9~g12 would be hellish to walk through those huge maps
YES BROTHA. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS.
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Arsik wrote on 2011-01-29 00:32
And I'm sure Elfchemists and Giant Alchemists would also love to do G1-G3 to become a Royal Alchemist. That's 330 journal points that they can't get. Then there's the Paladin/Dark Knight thing. If a Human choses, s/he can get to a Champion, get the 50 journal points for that, then switch over to Infra Black and get another 50 points, just like how you can switch from supporting Elves to supporting Giants, and still be able to have the points count for both of them. So there's 430 points that Elves/Giants can't get access to.
Humans also do have other skills easier than the other races. Windmill training may not be easier than Giants, but it's certainly easier than Elves, what with Dual Wielding, along with more skills giving more Str. A 17+ Human doesn't have to worry about leveling at all if they're training Refining, since they get no Dex from leveling. Giants and Elves can't say the same thing.
And let's not forget the main thing: End game, Humans will triumph over Elves and Giants, since Humans are the class that excels at everything. Sure, their melee won't hit as high as Giants, and they can't spam Ice Spear or Magnum like Elves, but if they come up to a monster that is immune to a certain branch of combat, a Human can easily switch styles and still dominate, where as Elves and Giants are focused more on range/melee respectively, meaning if they meet a monster that has NS3/HS3, then they have to switch to a weaker branch of combat to counter that, thus diminishing their overall effectiveness.
Sure, they're slow as hell, but most people have mounts anyways, so that argument is pretty moot for everyone but those new to the game and/or aren't allowed to buy NX from their parents, in which case, they'll probably get enough gold to just buy the NX in game and get their mount.
And so what if Humans had terrible character models for a while? When the game came out, it was pretty well done, considering the game came out in 2003. Yes, 5 years to get to a better, more smoother model is bad, but it really wasn't as bad as you're making it out. Look at male Giants. They may have only had to be in their form for 6 generations compared to the Human's 8 Generations, but their character model was complete ****. They really were nothing more than a Greek column walking on two stumps, a watermelon with hair and eyeballs for a head. Did you forget that when they ran, their legs didn't bend at all? And it's not like they couldn't fix them, because Giantesses stayed pretty much the same from release through the Renewal, with the only differences being they got new stances, more roundish faces and smoother skin.
But really, this whole thread just reeks of you making fun of the Giant rant thread, because Humans really didn't really need as much attention as Giants did.
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Shirayuki wrote on 2011-01-29 00:35
Quote from Arsik;308764:
And I'm sure Elfchemists and Giant Alchemists would also love to do G1-G3 to become a Royal Alchemist. That's 330 journal points that they can't get. Then there's the Paladin/Dark Knight thing. If a Human choses, s/he can get to a Champion, get the 50 journal points for that, then switch over to Infra Black and get another 50 points, just like how you can switch from supporting Elves to supporting Giants, and still be able to have the points count for both of them. So there's 430 points that Elves/Giants can't get access to.
Humans also do have other skills easier than the other races. Windmill training may not be easier than Giants, but it's certainly easier than Elves, what with Dual Wielding, along with more skills giving more Str. A 17+ Human doesn't have to worry about leveling at all if they're training Refining, since they get no Dex from leveling. Giants and Elves can't say the same thing.
And let's not forget the main thing: End game, Humans will triumph over Elves and Giants, since Humans are the class that excels at everything. Sure, their melee won't hit as high as Giants, and they can't spam Ice Spear or Magnum like Elves, but if they come up to a monster that is immune to a certain branch of combat, a Human can easily switch styles and still dominate, where as Elves and Giants are focused more on range/melee respectively, meaning if they meet a monster that has NS3/HS3, then they have to switch to a weaker branch of combat to counter that, thus diminishing their overall effectiveness.
Sure, they're slow as hell, but most people have mounts anyways, so that argument is pretty moot for everyone but those new to the game and/or aren't allowed to buy NX from their parents, in which case, they'll probably get enough gold to just buy the NX in game and get their mount.
And so what if Humans had terrible character models for a while? When the game came out, it was pretty well done, considering the game came out in 2003. Yes, 5 years to get to a better, more smoother model is bad, but it really wasn't as bad as you're making it out. Look at male Giants. They may have only had to be in their form for 6 generations compared to the Human's 8 Generations, but their character model was complete ****. They really were nothing more than a Greek column walking on two stumps, a watermelon with hair and eyeballs for a head. Did you forget that when they ran, their legs didn't bend at all? And it's not like they couldn't fix them, because Giantesses stayed pretty much the same from release through the Renewal, with the only differences being they got new stances, more roundish faces and smoother skin.
But really, this whole thread just reeks of you making fun of the Giant rant thread, because Humans really didn't really need as much attention as Giants did.
Giants are honestly way stronger midgame and just slightly lacking compared to humans endgame. Single target DPS is won by elves in all situations though.
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Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-29 00:40
Forgot one thing, trans special skills
Paladin: sorry what?
Infra: Control of darkness ............. wow, so cool
Giants: Full swing
Elves: magic missile
Im a champ and i only have some freaking wings to show. They only make me lag, they're just there for nothing except lagging my client
@arsik, i remember nexon balancing the journal in one way elves and giants could have the same journal points compared to humans.
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Ailyene wrote on 2011-01-29 01:02
I think this is supposed to be a joke, but I do wish humans could shoot two arrows too. We should have a totally overpowered race called half-elf, half-human where you can dual wield, wear heavy armor, shoot two arrows, shoot on mounts, run while loading, etc. etc. 8D /justkidding
Also, for the RA thing...I skipped G1 ( don't judge me please - I skipped it back when you had to pay and there was absolutely no point doing it, plus I didn't have service) so I have none of those delicious journal points from it, yet I'm still an RA and I've been an RA for many weeks. If an elf or giant truly wants to be an RA, they'll eventually get it once they have enough high-ranked alchemy skills.
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Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-29 01:07
Quote from Ailyene;308802:
I think this is supposed to be a joke, but I do wish humans could shoot two arrows too. We should have a totally overpowered race called half-elf, half-human where you can dual wield, wear heavy armor, shoot two arrows, shoot on mounts, run while loading, etc. etc. 8D /justkidding
nah, i like being human. I dont want any of those. They're race specific stuff after all
Honestly i think devcat should revamp g1-g3 content completely. From models to clothing, like what they did with the leather shoes.
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Kueh wrote on 2011-01-29 01:08
I don't really have an opinion on other points, but here's what I think are cheep shots for humans.
Movement speed. No Arsik, you can't out run a mob in combat using a mount. (maybe come crazy lagless modders can, but I get about a fourth of a second of delay when getting on my mounts, and a half second delay when trying to move him after mounting.) There are a lot of combat tactics that I can do on my elf that I can't do on my human for no other reason than they're just too dang slow.
Trans skills. Giant and Elf trans skills are amazing. Superb. Paladins get absolutely nothing, and Dark knights get an expensive and less useful version of animal taming. Did I mentions paladins get NOTHING? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a useless skill like Control of Darkness. At least I'd have SOMETHING.
I know that humans aren't as stiffed when compared to giants. But that in no way makes these issues just not exist.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-29 01:15
This thread made me laugh so hard. xD
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-29 01:27
How many things have hs3? How much of the game is completely accessible to melee? mobs with high-end pd's was a relevant consideration in c1 and c2. c3 gave us a ton of new content that focuses on higher hp, defense, and protection rather than pd's. I'm reminded of the old days when there was a lot of incentive to be a hybrid, to be flexible, and able to do well in many situations.
Today's mabi the opposite is true. While places like Peaca do indeed exist, most players don't run that dungeon. Either because of not being strong enough, or because the rewards aren't worth the effort (and now that it is g13, steel needle is the only real reward to be found there anymore). Shadow mission and theatre mission fomors don't have pd's thrown all over the place, aside from some light heavy stander on shadow wizards. Everything is easily dealt with via smash/windmill.
Being a giant, and having the strongest melee at all stages (newbie, mid- , and end-game) is nothing but an advantage. Humans are at most second best in this regard.
But to address the point of flexibility: Cressidia set would like to say Hi. RA is no longer the best source of damage for water cannon or flame burst, and the set even boosts life drain. Being an RA is no longer even all that important except for synthesis/fragmentation boosts (which do not matter in combat). Any giant can obtain the flexibility to handle those rare situations where melee is not ideal via alchemy. This was true even if they couldn't get access to RA, but alchemy is even more balanced between all three races than it was before.
The only situation where a giant is not better than a human is in some rare case where archery is the best option. Even then giants can still throw a spear for massive damage, and one-shot a lot of things, or at least contribute to a party.
Then from the elf side of things: range is usable in pretty much all situations much like melee is for giants. With crash shot available, elves even have a protection-ignoring area attack, and no longer have to suffer with a weak windmill for combat (therefore do not have ot switch to melee). Elven mobility makes them far superior archers for pve. While there are still supporters of arrow revolver being superior in duels than elven range, but I'm still not convinced.
Elves also have advantages in magic combat due to raw stats, and cheaper IS.
Elves are pretty much evenly matched in all areas a human is better than a giant as far as fashion options go. Elves also have some appearance options not available to humans at all.
Humans also have very weak transformation compared to giants and elves. Full Swing and Magic Missile are both devastatingly powerful and useful skills. Paladins don't have any special skill at all, and dark knight's control of darkness is laughable at best. Humans get nothing but some stat boosts for their trains, while elves and giants get comparable (arguably better) stat boots from theirs and accesss to huge offense potential.
Even if your argument were true that an end-game human is better than a giant or elf when facing a situation that other race is weak in, humans face that situation -all the time- by not being as good as giants or elves in everyday situations. If melee is the best option for the sitation, a human is weaker on melee than a giant. If range is the best solution, a human is weaker than an elf.
Humans should have an area they excel in. Magic or alchemy (or both) would be obvious choices, but it is clear from all the uproar from elves/giants over the whole human advantage in RA due to journal points thing, that the playerbase doesn't really like balance all that much, and just wants the stronger races to be stronger.
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Yanm wrote on 2011-01-29 01:30
Honestly, this thread is pretty funny, especially because most of this stuff is true. As far as the whole white and black thing, well I see that as trying to symbolize white as light and black as dark. I'd love to meet someone who'd really hold the white and black thing against Nexon. I have my own pet peeves with humans though:
Running speed: I can understand Elves running faster, and especially giants, since they're much bigger than we are and take much wider strides, but still. Just about EVERYTHING can outrun us! How annoying is it when you're trying to smash an archer and it starts to run away, outrunning you so easily? Or when I'm doing Smell of Wine and fighting a Shadow Warrior and I attempt to smash it and I get that annoying position lag, where it looks like you're ABOUT to hit it, yet you're a few inches away. Those crucial seconds give him just enough time for his normal ai to stop running and start slicing me up.
Paladin's have no trans skill: This is by far, my BIGGEST pet peeve. It makes absolutely no sense at all to me. I can understand Giants have GFS, as they're the kings of melee, Elves with Elven Magic Missile, as it can be used with a bow and wand, and they excel in range and magic, but...come on. Dark Knights can control stuff with Darkness, it makes sense but what can Paladin's do? I just don't understand why we don't have a skill. My random guess is they just thought about adding skills to transes with the Dark Knights, and since they came after Paladin's, they saw no reason to give us anything. Sure, we have the second highest trans damage, but would a trans skill really make us overpowered?
Also, I don't notice much of a lag difference with my wings out. What really lags me are Falcon Sages. I hate that transformation soo much because of the lag it gives me x_x.
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Joker wrote on 2011-01-29 01:45
.... @OP .... GET OUT
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Cannibal wrote on 2011-01-29 01:49
Hey, I didn't come in and troll the giant thread. I just said "Hahahahaha" because I thought it was a funny thread.
Don't come in and qq at my thread. All of my points are true.
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Kueh wrote on 2011-01-29 02:00
Quote from Yanm;308823:
and especially giants, since they're much bigger than we are and take much wider strides, but still. Just about EVERYTHING can outrun us!
Actually, if you look at creatures in real life, the bigger ones move most slowly. Muscles are pretty much built the same for all mammals. Using the same machinery, larger animals need to move more mass around. Think how fast a mouse can run, and compare that to how fast an elephant can run.
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Joker wrote on 2011-01-29 02:02
Quote from Chromatic;308776:
Forgot one thing, trans special skills
Paladin: Crash Shot
Infra: Crash Shot
Giants: Full swing
Elves: magic missile + Crash Shot
Fixed!
Quote from Whyrainfalls;308851:
Actually, if you look at creatures in real life, the bigger ones move most slowly. Muscles are pretty much built the same for all mammals. Using the same machinery, larger animals need to move more mass around. Think how fast a mouse can run, and compare that to how fast an elephant can run.
Cheetah......... Elephants can get up to about 24 km/h (according to an old test)
new tests have showed elephants getting up to about 40 km/h (when scared or intimidated/charging)
and their walking speed can hit about 12 km/h ...
So i beg to differ ... how... smaller things run faster.. ~_~
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Cannibal wrote on 2011-01-29 02:04
Crash shot isn't a transformation skill, therefore your point is invalid.