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[Mini-Guide] Mabinogi Repair % System Is a Lie?



Even with 98%, eventually (with replacements), you will pick a red ball at least once in the long run. Sometimes you get un/lucky (depends on how you want to look at it), you get another red ball after your first pick. Note that 5/100 is only 1/20, so out of 20 tries, on average, you will fail once.

It feels like you are losing out a lot simply because the number 95% and 98% look promising to the eyes. I am willing to bet that you do not remember exactly how many times you succeeded repairing since you started playing, but you roughly do remember how many times you have failed the repairs.

If one was to write out a chart of success/failure from one specific NPC since he first started playing, the average will be close to the repair rate of that NPC.


[SIZE="4"]Difference Between Perfect Repairs and Point-by-Point Repairs.[/SIZE]

If you do perfect repair (meaning attempting to repair all points at once), your success rate drops dramatically, resulting in almost a guaranteed failure. This is why a lot of players use point-by-point repairs.

Example:

Let's say you're trying to repair 0/10 dagger, blessed/non-blessed is irrelevant for this discussion.

If you do point-by-point, your repair sequences and rates are like this.


If you choose perfect repair, it looks more like this.




On perfect repairs, the system overlaps the subsequent repair rate followed by the first attempt.


For easier understanding:

[98%] -> [98% of 98%] -> [98% of 98% of 98%] -> .... -> [98% of 98% of 98% of... 98%]

Each arrow representing each point in durability when you're using perfect repair.

See the problem here? The chances decrease the more durability loss you have. Therefore, items with 0/5 durability have way higher success rate than the ones with 0/30 durability, using the perfect repair.

Example: At 98% repair, using perfect repairs

Dura : Success Rate
0/1 : 98% chance to fully repair (This is the same as point-by-point repairs)

0/5 : 90% chance to fully repair
0/10 : 81% chance to fully repair
0/15 : 74% chance to fully repair
0/20 : 67% chance to fully repair
0/25 : 60% chance to fully repair
0/30 : 55% chance to fully repair


Following is an analogy irrelevant to probability, but explanation of the concept of why the rates are like that:

Think of 30 cars trying to park in 30 different spots all lined up side by side all at once. - Perfect Repair
Think of 30 cars lining up in 1 line to fill up 30 spots 1-by-1. - Point by Point


To sum it up, if you attempt perfect repairs at low durability, you are pretty much guaranteed to fail a point.

I will not mention the effects of Holy Water and rainy days, as they have very little to do with my topic.

Cheers.
  • EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-05-11 03:16
    What does low durability have to do with anything?

    You should just say that the more durability you repair, the more likely you going to break a point.

    It is kind of funny that you have to show all that probability just to show that 98% repair isn't guarantee repair.
  • Sam wrote on 2010-05-11 03:17
    Hopefully this isnt true, although it would make sense, and why even Edern always seems to fail at least a point of durability! D:
  • Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-11 03:35
    Quote from EndlessDreams;33164:
    What does low durability have to do with anything?


    I see that you weren't able to comprehend the low durability part. Perfect repairs with low durability items have lower success rate than the actual success rate.

    You should just say that the more durability you repair, the more likely you going to break a point.


    Again, read it over carefully, and maybe you'll see that my mini-guide simply goes into more details explaining the mechanics.

    It is kind of funny that you have to show all that probability just to show that 98% repair isn't guarantee repair.


    Title: Oblivious Facts Behind Repairing Mechanics


    You might as well say all the guides in the forum are for nothing.


    I'll say this again. This is the mechanic behind repair success rate. I never said anything about 98% being a 100% guaranteed repair. It seems as if you got nothing better to say than to whine aboout the details I've provided. I find that funny.
  • Shironi wrote on 2010-05-11 03:43
    Ferghus.

    1. 90%
    2. 81%
    3. 72.9%
    4. 65.6%
    6. 59%
    7. 53%
    8. 47.79%
    9. 43%
    10. 38.7%

    Moral of the story, don't repair at ferghus.
  • Cide wrote on 2010-05-11 03:44
    Quote from Sam;33165:
    Hopefully this isnt true, although it would make sense, and why even Edern always seems to fail at least a point of durability! D:


    its basic math. of course its true.
  • Chiri wrote on 2010-05-11 03:51
    Some other things you can cover:

    The misconception that...

    ... if you fail once, the chances are higher that next time that you will succeed
    ... if you fail 3 times in a row, then the stated probability must be false
  • Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-05-11 04:26
    Well, I got bored.

    Repair.xls
    ^That is an excel spreadsheet where you can just put in your own values and repair %s to check what your chances are.
    Blessing is in there too.


    I might never do the % of losing a certain amount of points, depends how bored I get.

    Rep would be appreciated.:lol: :3
  • Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-05-11 04:29
    I swear by point-by-point repairs.
    And I also do not do repairs in one row, I'll usually run to get my items repaired the moment they go down by one or two durability.

    I do lose durability sometimes, but that's to be expected.
  • EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-05-11 04:39
    Quote from Jahrakal;33171:
    I see that you weren't able to comprehend the low durability part. Perfect repairs with low durability items have lower success rate than the actual success rate.



    I see you aren't comprehending the bigger picture.

    If you have 0/8 weapon, you repair the whole thing in one visit at NPC, you have 8 attempts of repair.

    If that same weapon, you let it down 1 point to 7/8, and repair it. Then, you repeat it 7 more times over the course of your dungeoning, you will repair the same amount of points.

    The probability is the same.

    You missed my post completely. For someone who wrote all that, you didn't even look at the bigger picture.
  • asuran wrote on 2010-05-11 04:47
    Put this simply.

    You want to know what's the chance to repair your weapon at 98%? do this

    0.98^n

    where n is the number of durability points you want to repair.

    Just to break down some % rates.

    Chance on getting 50 durability points repaired in a row.

    98% -> 0.36416968008711706521737398145318 = 36.4%
    95% -> 0.07694497527671332927429437909584 = 7.6%
    90% -> 0.00515377520732011331036461129766 = 0.05%

    Even a increase of just 1% on top of 98% would sky rocket the chance to get 50 repairs in a row to 60%. I don't know how much % chance does holy water add but if it does add 1%, it has a huge impact on a 98% repair.

    And what you said about full repair and repair one point at a time makes no sense, people repair like that because if they FAIL they can re-bless the item and thus don't lose the extra % chance you get when repairing a blessed item.

    If anyone doesn't understand this it's because either you are too young and haven't had probabilty and stadistics class or you had it but you failed it.

    More info here - Simple random sample - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  • Raj wrote on 2010-05-11 04:51
    Quote from Shironi;33174:
    Ferghus.

    1. 90%
    2. 81%
    3. 72.9%
    4. 65.6%
    6. 59%
    7. 53%
    8. 47.79%
    9. 43%
    10. 38.7%

    Moral of the story, don't repair at ferghus.


    Totally.

    Sorry, I found most of this common sense.
    It would've been pro to say-

    'I know Ferghus is cheap, but don't go to him.
    Enough said.'
    xD
  • Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-11 04:55
    Quote from EndlessDreams;33205:
    I see you aren't comprehending the bigger picture.

    If you have 0/8 weapon, you repair the whole thing in one visit at NPC, you have 8 attempts of repair.

    If that same weapon, you let it down 1 point to 7/8, and repair it. Then, you repeat it 7 more times over the course of your dungeoning, you will repair the same amount of points.

    The probability is the same.

    You missed my post completely. For someone who wrote all that, you didn't even look at the bigger picture.


    How is that a bigger picture? Where exactly in my guide did I state that those two methods of repairs are any different? I'm promoting point-by-point repairs and pointing out the misconception of perfect repairs.

    Thank you for your input nontheless, but the tone of your first post wasn't very welcoming for something I put my own time into.


    @Andy-Buddy

    How neat =)
  • Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-11 05:01
    Quote from asuran;33213:

    And what you said about full repair and repair one point at a time makes no sense, people repair like that because if they FAIL they can re-bless the item and thus don't lose the extra % chance you get when repairing a blessed item.

    No, point-by-point repair and perfect(full) repair are different in nature. That is just a side benefit of repairing by point-by-point, but point-by-point does more than that.



    If anyone doesn't understand this it's because either you are too young and haven't had probabilty and stadistics class or you had it but you failed it.

    More info here - Simple random sample - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Hi, Math Major here with 6 distinctive courses taken in Statistics and Probability.

    Of course this is a common sense, but you will be surprised at just how many people use perfect repairs because they think the mechanics behind the point-by-point repairs and that of the perfect repairs are the same.


    - - - - -

    Edit: I apologize for the tone of my posts being defensive. Regardless I'm open for your feedbacks. Keep them coming.
  • Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-05-11 05:20
    Holy Water cuts the % of loss in half.
    i. e. 90% -> 95%
    95% -> 97.5%
    98% -> 99%

    We were just looking at the chance of a perfect repair, at different points of time. Blessing failures, and losses are not counted in what we are looking for.