Y u gotta hate us?

• Phanterz wrote on 2011-06-23 16:51
  Lann's just too damn hard to play for me in parties due to lag. I can't even see when the hell bosses are going to attack.
  
  And right now just about everything except sword fiona outdamages sword lann, while spear lann is just ridiculously hard to play in any circumstance at this level
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-06-23 17:08

  Quote from Arandroth;486083:

  HONESTLY GUYS, do you think tha dev and nexon will do a real Lanns Revamp?
  Now i'm a spear user, and for reasons of force majeure i'll take swords.
  but WHY, i say, WHY everybody is sooo boring with that story of damage?
  at the beginning, i saw that evie, were concentrated on healing, buffing and other support stuff, fiona tanks and lann damaged bosses.
  NOW is the opposite!
  lann is a sort of... "support", evie damages, and fiona damages (new skill ftw) and tankss!!
  
  is lann the only class who have the same skills from october??

  
  
  Evies only "concentrated on healing" because their damage was pitiful and they didn't have any other use.
  
  Healing didn't even have a real use unless your party was bad.
  
  And Fiona was never a tank. She was a character who put out consistent damage and should always be either the character who never dies or the one who at least dies last. Her defensive capabilities only directly benefited herself, not anyone else. Except for maybe against Irukul.
• Arandroth wrote on 2011-06-23 17:50

  Quote from foreignreign;486181:

  Evies only "concentrated on healing" because their damage was pitiful and they didn't have any other use.
  
  Healing didn't even have a real use unless your party was bad.

  
  
  ..or the boss has attacks that cannot be avoided due the lag.
  
  
  

  Quote from foreignreign;486181:

  And Fiona was never a tank. She was a character who put out consistent damage and should always be either the character who never dies or the one who at least dies last. Her defensive capabilities only directly benefited herself, not anyone else. Except for maybe against Irukul.

  
  
  with the definition of tank, i mean a character with high defensive power, capable of protect himself AND occasionally his allies. And obviously, this sot of tank it's not born to be a Damage Dealer, but a defensive character.
  of course this is my opinion.
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-06-23 21:14

  Quote from Arandroth;486231:

  ..or the boss has attacks that cannot be avoided due the lag.

  
  
  Lag is a non-issue. You can blame a lot of things on lag and saying that pre-revamp staff Evies were beneficial to help curbing lag is silly. If we always had to take lag into consideration, everyone would be playing Fionas since they're the least hampered by it.
  
  
  

  with the definition of tank, i mean a character with high defensive power, capable of protect himself AND occasionally his allies. And obviously, this sot of tank it's not born to be a Damage Dealer, but a defensive character.
  of course this is my opinion.

  
  
  So is staff Evie a tank? Mana shields offer her a layer of defense that no other character has, and Mana Amber can take a huge beating. She can also freeze monsters occasionally which can help other players get out of the way of an attack (which is a lot less circumstantial than Fiona using HS to "protect" an ally).
  
  If you try to bring up "well Evie deals a lot of damage so that's not what I meant," then you have to consider that the primary point of this game is to deal large amounts of damage to bosses, so essentially everyone is a damage dealer, including Fiona. Fiona was just shoehorned into the "defensive" role because she has a shield, when she was actually one of the more powerful characters with her hammer before the balance patch (which is what "nerfed" her), and is back to being one of the more powerful characters again (albeit this time more blatantly).
• ThatNerd wrote on 2011-06-23 21:46
  I somewhat hate lann because they're usually the once who kill my target instead of KILLING THE REST OF THE MONSTERS AROUND ME. DSHJNFAieswWKEQMLWK
  
  Dear god that's annoying. But yeah I agree damage for sword should be nerfed that it deals somewhat higher damage than hammer and staff.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-06-23 21:49

  Quote from ThatNerd;486490:

  I somewhat hate lann because they're usually the once who kill my target instead of KILLING THE REST OF THE MONSTERS AROUND ME. DSHJNFAieswWKEQMLWK
  
  Dear god that's annoying. But yeah I agree damage for sword should be nerfed that it deals somewhat higher damage than hammer and staff.

  
  
  Err, nerfed?
  I'll assume you meant buffed with that.
  
  Anyways, I do believe a Spear revamp (or rebalance) was confirmed by Devcat or something in an interview. Sword Lann actually got a minor buff with Gliding Fury (I think that's it's name) damage and distance with this patch as well.
• Arandroth wrote on 2011-06-23 22:16

  Quote from foreignreign;486448:

  Lag is a non-issue. You can blame a lot of things on lag and saying that pre-revamp staff Evies were beneficial to help curbing lag is silly. If we always had to take lag into consideration, everyone would be playing Fionas since they're the least hampered by it.

  
  
  what a pity!! Guess what? The whole game is based on lag! Try to join random party of every single boat, a lot of times you will see angry people flamming against other for that simple factor: the lag. Now, i don't want to blame nexon, lest of all you, but you MUST take lag in consideration.
  
  
  

  Quote from foreignreign;486448:

  So is staff Evie a tank? Mana shields offer her a layer of defense that no other character has, and Mana Amber can take a huge beating. She can also freeze monsters occasionally which can help other players get out of the way of an attack (which is a lot less circumstantial than Fiona using HS to "protect" an ally).

  
  well, in my (maybe wrong) idea of tank, she is. I cannot say the same for the lanns, sadly.
  
  

  Quote from foreignreign;486448:

  If you try to bring up "well Evie deals a lot of damage so that's not what I meant," then you have to consider that the primary point of this game is to deal large amounts of damage to bosses, so essentially everyone is a damage dealer, including Fiona. Fiona was just shoehorned into the "defensive" role because she has a shield, when she was actually one of the more powerful characters with her hammer before the balance patch (which is what "nerfed" her), and is back to being one of the more powerful characters again (albeit this time more blatantly).

  
  
  
  The truth of the matter is that fiona, even though they have nerfed her with the first updates, remains the one who can survive (evies too) longer than lann. I'm not defending lann, i'm just saying that they need a revamp or something like that.
  That's all.
• Oizen wrote on 2011-06-23 22:38

  Quote from Invertex;486492:

  Err, nerfed?
  I'll assume you meant buffed with that.
  
  Anyways, I do believe a Spear revamp (or rebalance) was confirmed by Devcat or something in an interview. Sword Lann actually got a minor buff with Gliding Fury (I think that's it's name) damage and distance with this patch as well.

  
  
  Why does this make me want to switch to spears?
  
  I don't get the trade offs for swords and spears now
  
  Spears = Acceptable damage at the cost of anything that resembles a dodge
  
  Swords = Crap damage and a kick ass dodge
  
  Thats not something you usually do with weapons. =/
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-06-24 05:19

  Quote from Arandroth;486526:

  what a pity!! Guess what? The whole game is based on lag! Try to join random party of every single boat, a lot of times you will see angry people flamming against other for that simple factor: the lag. Now, i don't want to blame nexon, lest of all you, but you MUST take lag in consideration.

  
  
  I join a lot of PUG boats and have never come across someone insulting others for lag. If there will be heavy amounts of lag, it'll be obvious when you're on the boat in one of two ways (or both): 1 bar on every play (duh), and if you hit objects on the boat and there's a delay between you hitting them and the items breaking, then there's lag. In which case, you get out of there and change boats. Problem solved.
  
  There are spikes in connections, sure, but no player's going to be able to deal with that anyway, and dedicating a healer to those spikes is just silly.
  
  
  

  well, in my (maybe wrong) idea of tank, she is. I cannot say the same for the lanns, sadly.

  
  
  Why is it bad that a Lann isn't a tank?
  
  
  

  The truth of the matter is that fiona, even though they have nerfed her with the first updates, remains the one who can survive (evies too) longer than lann. I'm not defending lann, i'm just saying that they need a revamp or something like that.
  That's all.

  
  
  I'm not going to disagree with this.
• zqzg wrote on 2011-06-24 06:54
  To answer the OP, I'd say it's because Evie and Fiona have an advantage over Lann in party situations because of what they're capable of doing for other people.
  
  In my humble opinion, a Lann can do as much damage as any other character when in the hands of a skilled player. Even then, however, Lann doesn't provide more than just damage to the boss while the other two classes do.
  
  Fiona - higher survivability than Lann because HS requires almost no timing plus restoration enchant, additional 1k defence from large shields, able to act as the boss' chew toy, shield bash for break offs, gains SP just by HSing. I frequently sit in the middle of Titan to lure the boss back to the centre of the map. Fiona also holds smaller bosses in place better than any mercury trap (I mean Klaus).
  
  Staff Evie - also has higher survivability due to greater attack range, regenerating magic shields and panic button (mana amber), free revives, regeneration SP, creates massive openings for attack with ice spear and reverse gravity. And she has the all-important corona. Scythe Evie - I dunno. Insane reaper and reverse gravity? And staff Evie doesn't just have higher attack multipliers - her attack range means that she can use those long charge-up attacks while the boss is attacking someone else. Imagine if stigma hammer had the range of blind arrow. That's what I mean. But oh wait, blind arrow has greater range AND a greater multiplier than stigma hammer. Her attacks can also be cancelled out of easily with a hop, which costs 0 stamina. Gliding/lightning fury, amaranth, etc all immobilize you for a moment. You could even link a flying sparrow or mana amber to that hop cancel.
  
  Lann, on the other hand - what can Lann do for others? Berserk? That buff doesn't even stack! And have you ever been on a Titan/Thor run when 6 or 7 of the 8 people were Lanns? Did it hurt? How long did it take?
  
  Going slightly off-topic here: how did it come to this? Earlier on Fiona and Lann were pretty much balanced, but then something went wrong at Boat 4. Fionas got large shields, but Lanns just got... lightning fury. And then survivability became an issue because boss battles got longer, and raids became more common. It's mostly raids from now on too - look at Ep 9. The four battles that are level 60 and above are all raids. Shakarr (solo), Colru (8-man), Blackhammer (6), Lynotos (8).
  
  Boss combos got longer too. Eat one attack and you eat all of the attacks in the boss' combo. There's also lag. Slip-dash requires more precise timing than any of the other dodges (prove me wrong?), so even if you were the most skilled player in Vindictus, you'll eat an attack with a lag spike. And then not all Lanns are that skilled. To quote a friend of mine, Lann is high input, low output while the Evie is low input, high output.
  
  So Lann is gimped. But seeing all the hate that Lann gets makes me want to play Lann (@person who replied multiple times in first page of this thread~ you best be trolling, dear). There's also something incredibly exciting about Lann, about not having anything between you and a hunk of raw power. Like jumping off a plane without a parachute. Something almost... exhibitionistic.
  
  And it really ticks me off to see other people gloating over Lann users just because of their class' advantage.
  
  Obligatory emote: :lol:
• Oizen wrote on 2011-06-24 06:57

  Quote from foreignreign;487010:

  
  
  Why is it bad that a Lann isn't a tank?
  

  
  Lann doesn't have to be a tank, he just can't take a single hit for crap despite being very close ranged.
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-06-24 08:21

  Quote from OizenX;487195:

  Lann doesn't have to be a tank, he just can't take a single hit for crap despite being very close ranged.

  
  
  A lot of games have characters/classes that play like that though.
  
  And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that playstyle.
  
  I will say that Lanns do need a buff to their defensive capabilities though, before anyone starts mercing on me for something like that.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2011-06-24 08:43
  no one trusts Lanns
• Arandroth wrote on 2011-06-24 09:36

  Quote from foreignreign;487472:

  I will say that Lanns do need a buff to their defensive capabilities though, before anyone starts mercing on me for something like that.

  
  Exactly. Rather, they do need also (i'm talking for the spears user) a little dodge (because, of course, they cannot use a real Dodge, in that case, everyone will trash the sword user), and not the actual weird leap they have..
  
  
  
  

  Quote from BobYoMeowMeow;487509:

  no one trusts Lanns

  
  
  :srsly?:
  
  
  [video=youtube;nlUHChdYiF0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlUHChdYiF0[/video]
  
  
  lol, this song seems to be written by Nexon/DevCat for every Desperate Lanns :cryno:
• Habskii wrote on 2011-06-24 14:36
  looool
  
  *taps impatiently for kai*
  *says to every class*
  He'll be here soon don't worry