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Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-06-24 18:13
Quote from Chiyuri;488031:
Human are still barbaric enough to attack other countries for there to be a need of National defence?
Well surprise, humans aren't some sort of divine astral superbeings, they're animals who are bound to evolution as much as other species, even if it does conflict with its society's advancement. Obviously there are things humans would fight for, and things humans would sacrifice other humans they don't hold dear to their heart over, and idealising over how much nicer it would be to do as Costa Rica did doesn't really help as much as it would be nice.
I don't think that justifies an obscene military budget as the US' though. I wouldn't be surprised if the more expensive European armies (
e.g. France or the UK) could use a little surgical cut here or there too.
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Mama wrote on 2011-06-24 18:18
Quote from Justified;488044:
*cough*
"Oh no I think I'm sick, I think I'll visit the doctor"
I think one of the main concerns for abuse was that free health care would allow people to waste doctors' time with stuff that doesn't actually need attention. It's true that expensive health care would mean people who need it/should get it may not, but if it's free then doesn't that mean people who don't need it/shouldn't get it might go?
Therefore there needs to be some limit, a floor to how sick you are, before you get admitted to a hospital or allowed to see a doctor.
I think that's what was meant by abuse/limits.
And taxes add to a higher cost of living, which still contributes (albeit probably less so) to a person's wealth (or lack thereof).
while there are many people who like to visit ERs with a runny nose, there is such a thing as having priorities.
I suggest reading up on it yourself if you're so interested in the canadian medical system.
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Phunkie wrote on 2011-06-24 18:24
I envy Canada so much sometimes.
Gay marriage, legal medical marijuana, free health care, etc.
The United States pisses me off with its crazy conservatives sometimes.
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Osayidan wrote on 2011-06-24 18:27
Plenty of room in Canada for a Phunkie.
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Phunkie wrote on 2011-06-24 18:28
Quote from Osayidan;488080:
Plenty of room in Canada for a Phunkie.
Save me a spot on the couch tonight. I'm coming over!
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Justified wrote on 2011-06-24 18:29
Quote from Mama;488063:
while there are many people who like to visit ERs with a runny nose, there is such a thing as having priorities.
I suggest reading up on it yourself if you're so interested in the canadian medical system.
Well regardless of priority systems (which I'm actually not interested at all in), them taking up any of a doctor's time would be a waste.
It's time spent that could be used on other patients. If otherwise they'd be doing nothing (down-time) that means they may be overstaffing the hospital and thus overpaying them, and overtaxing citizens.
Another example (which is present in cartoons pretty often) is that when people don't have to worry about the cost of something, they'll be careless about it. In reality I don't know how often this applies, but people would be more inclined to do risky things if the consequences of a high hospital bill don't exist. This could apply to stunts, alcohol, drugs, etc.
Just pointing out that every system can have it's flaws or drawbacks. I'd love to have free healthcare since I'm on the side with people who would benefit from using their services more often than I do.
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Mrlucky77 wrote on 2011-06-24 18:32
Yet the sad thing is that doctors want to stay in USA more than Canada because they get paid more.
If more doctors were in Canada, the free healthcare system would work much better, as a real issue here in Canada is the fact that people just go to the emergency room or clinic for very minor issues! Unless it's an emergency that is EMS/Ambulance level, you have to wait HOURS to even get looked at even in the emergency room. With more doctors, there would be more hospitals therefore more room for patients, therefore less waiting time, therefore better system.
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Mama wrote on 2011-06-24 18:36
Quote from Justified;488084:
Well regardless of priority systems (which I'm actually not interested at all in), them taking up any of a doctor's time would be a waste.
It's time spent that could be used on other patients. If otherwise they'd be doing nothing (down-time) that means they may be overstaffing the hospital and thus overpaying them, and overtaxing citizens.
Another example (which is present in cartoons pretty often) is that when people don't have to worry about the cost of something, they'll be careless about it. In reality I don't know how often this applies, but people would be more inclined to do risky things if the consequences of a high hospital bill don't exist. This could apply to stunts, alcohol, drugs, etc.
Just pointing out that every system can have it's flaws or drawbacks. I'd love to have free healthcare since I'm on the side with people who would benefit from using their services more often than I do.
of course the system has drawbacks. MrLucky echoed what I said earlier and is the main problem.
The waits are enormously long, and there is a severe shortage of family doctors and nurses, as well as hospital beds. A lot of doctors who complain about the system and move down to America are doctors and do it just to be able to make more money, sadly enough...
That being said, I wouldn't trade it for a thing. The cost for peace of mind is
priceless. And if I'm not happy about the wait times, I can go to a private organization or anywhere in the US and get treated for a cost.
If I got sick in America, and needed major surgery, I'm pretty much ****ed economically for a long time.
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Osayidan wrote on 2011-06-24 18:38
The long waits isn't always true, I don't really know anyone who spends a long time waiting at hospitals. There's waiting lists for certain surgeries but that's true almost anywhere, I think the only places that don't have such waiting lists are places where they prioritize money over people, meaning if you pay more you get bumped to the top. Which is pretty much what the US is.
The type of surgeries you have to wait for aren't things your life depends on either. If it's an emergency you're in right away. Just 2 weeks ago my dad got appendicitis, he was rushed to the hospital, had surgery and was out the next morning. And he didn't even have to bring his wallet.
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Chiyuri wrote on 2011-06-24 18:39
Quote from Mrlucky77;488088:
Yet the sad thing is that doctors want to stay in USA more than Canada because they get paid more.
If more doctors were in Canada, the free healthcare system would work much better, as a real issue here in Canada is the fact that people just go to the emergency room or clinic for very minor issues! Unless it's an emergency that is EMS/Ambulance level, you have to wait HOURS to even get looked at even in the emergency room. With more doctors, there would be more hospitals therefore more room for patients, therefore less waiting time, therefore better system.
That remind me of a story that happen in montreal. Some guy was having problems but since it wasn't an emergency, he waited for hours and hours with his daughter. In the end he died while waiting in the hospital.
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Mama wrote on 2011-06-24 18:40
Quote from Osayidan;488101:
The long waits isn't always true, I don't really know anyone who spends a long time waiting at hospitals. There's waiting lists for certain surgeries but that's true almost anywhere, I think the only places that don't have such waiting lists are places where they prioritize money over people, meaning if you pay more you get bumped to the top. Which is pretty much what the US is.
Yup. These problems are mutual..
The biggest bump to go over now would be dealing with the massive amount of baby-boomers.
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Osayidan wrote on 2011-06-24 18:43
Yup baby boomers are going to be a problem D: An entire (very large) generation of people getting old at the same time is going to clog things up, but at least we'll be trying to take care of ours and treat them like human beings. Meanwhile down south they have to choose between that liver surgery or having a place to live.
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Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-06-24 18:50
Quote from Mama;488097:
of course the system has drawbacks. MrLucky echoed what I said earlier and is the main problem.
The waits are enormously long, and there is a severe shortage of family doctors and nurses, as well as hospital beds. A lot of doctors who complain about the system and move down to America are doctors and do it just to be able to make more money, sadly enough...
Sounds like the UK. Germany had a pretty awesome system until now, but due to increased cost mainly due to the aging population it's getting hard to sustain and there are plans to transition it into something akin to the British system. It's already gotten weaker in the last few years though.
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Cucurbita wrote on 2011-06-24 19:04
Quote from Justified;488044:
*cough*
"Oh no I think I'm sick, I think I'll visit the doctor"
I think one of the main concerns for abuse was that free health care would allow people to waste doctors' time with stuff that doesn't actually need attention. It's true that expensive health care would mean people who need it/should get it may not, but if it's free then doesn't that mean people who don't need it/shouldn't get it might go?
Therefore there needs to be some limit, a floor to how sick you are, before you get admitted to a hospital or allowed to see a doctor.
I think that's what was meant by abuse/limits.
And taxes add to a higher cost of living, which still contributes (albeit probably less so) to a person's wealth (or lack thereof).
You could just as easily go "cough i'm sick" and visit a doctor when the attention isn't necessary here in America if you have proper health insurance. Technically you're paying out of your pocket on a yearly basis, but visits are more or less free.
Which means people will actually WANT to go more often than they should, since they're paying yearly for something they're not getting. The paid + insurance system really isn't that great.
Besides, there are so many people who can't afford the care they need. If you do the math, its really hard to support health care insurance unless you make good money.
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Cynic wrote on 2011-06-24 19:42
Smart guy.
I feel very bad for him, though.