My beliefs(Regarding religion)

• Phunkie wrote on 2011-09-04 04:58
  If everything needs to have a beginning or a source, how come we never hear of anybody creating God?
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2011-09-04 05:01

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;577020:

  Wow really.
  
  
  So how exactly does that point towards superpowered transcendental beings who don't need to be created by themselves totally creating everything else?
  And, to be a bit more specific, how does it point towards an old Semitic mountain deity to be the creator?
  
  
  I vote in favour of the Norse creation myth.

  
  
  

  Quote from The Pope;577022:

  If everything needs to have a beginning or a source, how come we never hear of anybody creating God?

  
  My point being that there must be things outside the realm of the natural world that are not bound by scientific laws. Whether you believe that natural laws created themselves or that God who was ever present created them; you are in the realm of religion, not science.
  
  I believe, "In the beginning God..."
  
  You believe, "In the beginning nothing..."
  
  Either way, they're both religious ideas with absolutely no scientific backing.
• Maenad wrote on 2011-09-04 05:06

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577003:

  Ok, so why is it that the four forces are capable of defining laws? What gave those forces those properties? You see, properties of things within the realm of the natural world do not arise spontaneously. My computer works the way it does because an intelligent designer made it to work that way. To say that the force of electricity lets the computer turn on and operate (and that the intelligent designer is not needed) is to forget that the computer itself was designed to respond to the electricity.

  
  
  The forces are merely there. Their balance defines anything and everything. They do not 'define' them as you and I might define something. The laws of physics form from the balance, if the balance were to suddenly change, so would the laws of physics.
  
  

  [Image: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/imgfor/funfor1.gif]

  
  Also known as Strong Nuclear Force.
  

  [Image: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/imgfor/funfor2.gif]

  
  

  [Image: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/imgfor/funfor3.gif]

  
  Also known as Weak Nuclear Force
  

  [Image: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/imgfor/funfor4.gif]

  
  
  
  
  Just a note, quantum physics say that something can form from nothing.
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-09-04 05:06

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577030:

  My point being that there must be things outside the realm of the natural world that are not bound by scientific laws. Whether you believe that natural laws created themselves or that God who was ever present created them; you are in the realm of religion, not science.

  
  Alternatively, we could argue that in the beginning the situation was totally different and those four forces could not apply effectively so everything is weird and unexplainable and didn't follow those laws.
  
  I mean it's not that far-fetched. After all we still have quantum mechanics to this date which appears to not quite follow the laws of the superatomic level very well, so it can reasonably be argued that something comparable applied to the hypothetical beginning of the known universe.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-09-04 05:07
  Towards the beginning, the forces didn't work quite the same as they did today.
  
  
  

  Quote from Araria;577041:

  Just a note, quantum physics say that something can form from nothing.

  
  
  Yup.
  
  Also, there's a lot about science that we don't know yet. We don't know everything and to assume so would just be very ignorant. However, we're learning everyday and this is through experiments and testing things in the lab.
  
  The God argument isn't something we can test. This is why it's not as valid as science, even if both are just beliefs and not facts.
• Moppy wrote on 2011-09-04 05:08

  Quote from The Pope;577022:

  If everything needs to have a beginning or a source, how come we never hear of anybody creating God?

  
  
  Science made God. Duh.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2011-09-04 05:13

  Quote from Araria;577041:

  The forces are merely there. Their balance defines anything and everything. They do not 'define' them as you and I might define something. The laws of physics form from the balance, if the balance were to suddenly change, so would the laws of physics.

  
  
  So the question remains, where did the forces come from? How did they originate and come together into balance? Even if the laws of physics are not "defined", that doesn't mean the forces aren't defined. After all, you did just define them for me! I'll say it again, my computer does not program itself, and neither does something millions of times more complex (like the universe).
  
  

  Quote from Araria;577041:

  Just a note, quantum physics say that something can form from nothing.

  
  
  I'm afraid common sense and real physics say otherwise...
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-09-04 05:15

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577058:

  I'm afraid common sense and real physics say otherwise...

  
  I vote for a muting of Spartaaaaa.
  
  
  Quick question, are you perhaps the same guy as the one on YT with the huge house?
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-09-04 05:16

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577058:

  I'm afraid common sense and real physics say otherwise...

  
  
  We definitely can get something for nothing; quantum field theory not only allows it, it demands it.
• Kollin wrote on 2011-09-04 05:16

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;577063:

  I vote for a muting of Spartaaaaa.

  
  
  i think there is an option to ignore certain people. not sure though. just add him/her/it to it and problem solved.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2011-09-04 05:17

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;577063:

  I vote for a muting of Spartaaaaa.
  
  
  Quick question, are you perhaps the same guy as the one on YT with the huge house?

  
  
  lol I wish I had a huge house...
  
  But anyway, if you're going to mute me, then you will also have to mute the first law of thermodynamics.
  
  

  Quote from The Pope;577065:

  We definitely can get something for nothing; quantum field theory not only allows it, it demands it.

  
  
  But assuming quantum physics allows for making nothing into something, what is the origin of these "quantum forces" that allow the universe to be created from nothing? In order for "quantum physics" to have the ability to materialize matter and energy, there first must exist a property allowing that to happen. Where did said property come from?
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-09-04 05:17
  But that derives me of information and gives me a competitive disadvantage in this forum.
  

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577070:

  But anyway, if you're going to mute me, then you will also have to mute the first law of thermodynamics.

  
  No I don't, I can argue that different levels adhere to different forces which are caused by the properties of matter at those particular levels.
  
  
  As far as I know the forces work a bit differently on astronomical levels too, so that's totally plausible.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2011-09-04 05:24

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;577071:

  
  No I don't, I can argue that different levels adhere to different forces which are caused by the properties of matter at those particular levels.
  
  As far as I know the forces work a bit differently on astronomical levels too, so that's totally plausible.

  
  
  Ok, so where do the different properties come from? Properties are still properties regardless of what "level" it's at, and the fact remains that properties in the natural world don't come from nowhere.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-09-04 05:27

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577089:

  Ok, so where do the different properties come from? Properties are still properties regardless of what "level" it's at, and the fact remains that properties in the natural world don't come from nowhere.

  
  
  You're just asking why and why and why and why and why and why......
  
  And then when we can't explain why, you're like... BAM, GOD. :awesome:
  
  
  Sometimes it just is.
  
  At least until somebody can further explain the reason why.
  
  
  Once upon a time, we didn't know what the Sun was. But then we discovered what it was.
  Once upon a time, we knew that the Sun provided heat, but we didn't know how. Until we discovered how.
  Once upon a time, we knew that nuclear fusion occurs in the Sun, which provided the heating, but we didn't know the specifics of nuclear fusion. Until we discovered them.
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  Sometimes it just is. Until we can discover how or why.
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-09-04 05:29

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;577089:

  Ok, so where do the different properties come from? Properties are still properties regardless of what "level" it's at, and the fact remains that properties in the natural world don't come from nowhere.

  
  From your mother.