Do you feel Vindictus characters fit traditional class roles?

• Oizen wrote on 2011-12-08 23:00

  Quote from SozenCratosFocker;685532:

  All other chars except maybe spearLann can survive/avoid attacks all day long as long as the player knows what they're doing, isn't lagging too hard, and keeps an eye on the stam bar.
  

  
  
  Most spear lanns who say that end up with the face in the ground :|
  
  Try swords.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-12-08 23:10

  Quote from SozenCratosFocker;685532:

  And I care about Fiona's dodge being useless because I don't want a useless move wasting the good WASD control options.

  
  
  Spear roll is also useless, takes about as much stam as Fio roll, and travels the same distance too. Both do not have invincibility frames. Basically, Fionas are much better off than a Spear Lann, buffing only Fio roll would just about knock them to the top.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-09 02:25

  Quote from SozenCratosFocker;685532:

  All other chars except maybe spearLann can survive/avoid attacks all day long as long as the player knows what they're doing, isn't lagging too hard, and keeps an eye on the stam bar.

  
  lol, no, all classes definitely cannot tank. They can survive, sure, but they can't tank.
  

  The amber exiting animation is negligible if you're on the ground

  
  No it's not... I might have to make a video of it, it's so long that it does cause problems.
  

  They take time to set up

  
  This should be done before starting.
  

  they're not always an option

  
  When are they needed and unavailable? They seem available every single time they're needed.
  

  About the one hit striking amber multiple times thing: hardly any bosses have attacks with high enough dmg, low enough knockback force, and long enough travel time/distance for that to matter,

  
  Actually, quite a few of the later raids come to mind, the only problem is that they multihit so hard that they'll break your amber before it even has the chance to be hit those multiple times, then they'll hit you instead.
  

  and there way more multiple hit attacks that would effect Fio's guard the same way.

  
  Like what? I'm not speaking of combos or anything of the like... I'm talking about the same swipe hitting multiple times.
  

  And I care about Fiona's dodge being useless because I don't want a useless move wasting the good WASD control options.

  
  Meh, guard is superior to the dodge. The only reason you should dodge is to have a bigger opening.
  

  As for the camcorder thing, please don't. vidios of a screen taken with camcorders always come out as eyesores. There are plenty of free screen recorders out there, and there's even one built in to the game.

  
  I can and do record regularly. I spend a hell of a lot of time on Youtube, and that's where most people outside of here know me. Problem is, keypresses won't be heard if I simply record the screen as I don't have a microphone. I have to record it with a camcorder to have solid proof of what I'm saying, or else someone is going to argue that I just "wasn't doing it right" or something.
• SozenCratosFocker wrote on 2011-12-09 10:35

  Quote from OizenX;685545:

  Most spear lanns who say that end up with the face in the ground :|
  
  Try swords.

  
  I don't think you read that before responding to it.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from MareneCorp;685555:

  Spear roll is also useless, takes about as much stam as Fio roll, and travels the same distance too. Both do not have invincibility frames. Basically, Fionas are much better off than a Spear Lann, buffing only Fio roll would just about knock them to the top.

  
  Spear roll isn't completely useless. It's a smash, so it's atleast a fun way to finish mobs, and there's a [very small] chance that it will knock down the enemy b4 their attack can hit you. spear roll also starts with a jump, so it can go over some obstacles that would stop a Fio roll. And i think Spear roll shrinks the hitbox more than Fio roll.
  Spear roll is a prety weak dodge, but it's not nearly as useless as Fio roll.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;685718:

  lol, no, all classes definitely cannot tank. They can survive, sure, but they can't tank.

  
  Exactly.
  
  

  No it's not... I might have to make a video of it, it's so long that it does cause problems.

  
  Do you exit amber on your own or wait for the timer to expire? I always try to time it so that I exit just after the attack, so I don't have time to get stuck in the air and the exit animation is dome b4 the next attack if there is one, or i get a head start on stam regen if there isn't. So far, I haven't had problems with it except when lagging or not ready/not familiar with the boss(Or stuck in the air, but that's almost always avoidable if you time your exit right).
  
  

  This should be done before starting.
  
  When are they needed and unavailable? They seem available every single time they're needed.

  
  You loose the buffs if you die even once or take more than 10 minutes to kill the boss.
  Technically, a buff is never really "needed", but in tough battles where there useful, it's not uncommon for all the firewood to be destroyed soon after the boss spawns, so getting the buffs again is impossible even if you have enough time.
  
  

  Actually, quite a few of the later raids come to mind, the only problem is that they multihit so hard that they'll break your amber before it even has the chance to be hit those multiple times, then they'll hit you instead.
  
  Like what? I'm not speaking of combos or anything of the like... I'm talking about the same swipe hitting multiple times.

  
  I know what you're talking about, but i'm saying that those are so rare that they're barely relevant, especially since the much more common combo/spam attacks cause that problem for Fio too.
  
  

  Meh, guard is superior to the dodge. The only reason you should dodge is to have a bigger opening.

  
  What?
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-09 18:10

  Quote from SozenCratosFocker;686027:

  Exactly.

  
  I suppose I should clarify what I was saying. When I said "all classes can't tank", I didn't mean "every single one without exception can't tank", I meant "not every single one can tank". Poor wording on my part.
  

  Do you exit amber on your own or wait for the timer to expire?

  I exit it on my own. I think Lionotus's double strike is a good example of something you can't amber twice, but will be broken+damaging if it hits you twice in the same amber. Even if you time the first slash to where you release it the moment you safely can, I don't think you can amber again before the tail comes around due to those recovery frames.
  

  You loose the buffs if you die even once or take more than 10 minutes to kill the boss.

  "Then don't die". I don't know what to say to this. I mean the purpose of a tank is to not die in the first place. As for that 10 minute thing... the ideal purpose of tanking is to do it in large parties where everyone will be blasting away. To date, nothing takes more than 10 minutes if everyone blasts away at it nonstop.
  

  Technically, a buff is never really "needed",

  It is if a boss attacks enough, unless you can trick it into freezing up and not attacking or something. We're talking about Fionas tanking, after all, and they can't tank hits without a campfire buff anywhere near as well as they can with it.
  

  I know what you're talking about, but i'm saying that those are so rare that they're barely relevant, especially since the much more common combo/spam attacks cause that problem for Fio too.

  I don't play many different battles anymore, but I'll name some...
  
  Thor, in rage mode (swipe, spin back around)
  Controlled Black Hammer (two of his attack combos in form one)
  Lionotus (double swipe)
  Colru (triple punch, trololo roll, and, if close enough, quick double punches into dive)
  Glas (slash combos)
  Hero Irukul (slashing multiple times in a row, or turning around into you multiple times in a row)
  Some of the random boat 7 bosses I've played
  
  So basically, virtually every single battle (except Shakarr) I've done in recent months has given Evie defensive problems where you can't recover from amber in time, the amber breaks, and you take damage. These are only examples that include all three of those conditions. I didn't throw in unblockable/amber breakers that can one shot or anything of the like, such as Colru's stone throw or Glas's dive. And yes, Fionas struggle on some unblockables too. But to call this thing uncommon for Evie wouldn't be accurate at all, so long as you're doing things that are somewhat endgame.
  
  I'd like to give more examples, but I don't do Titan and some other ones people seem to do. Regardless, I'm betting most endgame ones have at least one, and I've listed many that have multiple. It's only uncommon in things that are too low level to matter.
  

  What?

  You're better off guarding than dodging as a Fiona.
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-09 19:10
  wow, ultra mutiquotes lol.
• xJac wrote on 2011-12-09 19:34
  WRONG. Arguments invalid.
  
  In vindictus, the role of a character (meaning player controlled unit, not class) is determined by their gears.
  
  10k+ DEF = Tank (maybe 8k+ depends on boss)
  15k+ ATT/M.ATT = DPS (Or people with high attack speed)
  Party healer is only evie, since that's the only class that can heal other classes, but every class to itself can pot (self heal).
  
  Tell a fiona with 3k def to tank, won't happen.
  Tell a 8k ATT spear/hammer/staff (M.ATT in this cast) to get top dps, won't happen either.
  
  Well, there are rare occasions where a person can out-tank, or out-dps by mere skill or even luck, but it's too rare to be put into generalization.
  
  Vindictus might not start off as a gear based game, but now it is certainly gear2win for most people.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-09 19:46
  Meh, I'm too tired of arguing against this to really continue.
  
  All I feel like saying is that we're under assumption people are of equal gear playing at a high level and that a 10K defense Spear Lann shouldn't live longer than a 3K defense Fiona because the Fiona can (and should) nullify damage with her shield, something a Lann cannot do. The Fiona losing out would require sloppy play, whereas the Spear Lann can get corner ****ed and pretty much have a forced failure no matter how skillful they are due to no blocking options. 10K defense is wonderful until you get knocked down, hit three times and then realize you're still stuck in the same corner with another attack coming.
  
  I'd rather be a staff Evie or Fiona in a corner than a high defense Lann. Even if the Lann may technically be safer, no amount of skill could pull him out if his luck is bad enough. This is not the case for the others.
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-09 19:47
  Let's just settle that Vindi heroes fit the roles of Justice League of America
• xJac wrote on 2011-12-09 19:58
  I don't know how you can die with 10k DEF.
  
  I have 7.5k DEF and I can see a noticeably difference of the damage I take, significantly lower than when I have 6.5k.
  
  10K DEF should be able to allow one player to just tankspin raid boss right in his face, and not dying. (10k DEF players can tank colru's full black ball storm without dying too)
  
  With that much benefit from DEF, dodging becomes obsolete.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-09 20:00
  Well, I see 10K defense Spear Lanns dying all the time. And besides, that wasn't the point, the point is that bad luck with the wrong character can pretty much force a death in ways that it wouldn't with other characters.
• xJac wrote on 2011-12-09 20:13
  I guess I don't pug enough then.
  
  Personally I like being cornered when I am tankspinning in trans, boss does little damage when I am in 2nd stage (10.5k + def since I am a pally), i take like 200 per hit from fast normal hit, and I can also cast the damage absorb to negate damage; the best thing is, I just need to cast slashing high and hold my right mouse button, and watch the boss die. (obviously dodging those that will cost super high damage like colru's throw, or thor's electric shock; aka moving a bit away so I still damage the boss, but the boss won't touch me).
  
  Yes, without trans, spears can hardly survive being cornered, but I don't think fiona can survive being cornered with thor either, they DO have higher chance of being alive if the boss only does normal attack, but not if the boss decides to troll (colru gray combo, thor electric shock, glas grab etc), unfortunately most raid bosses like to do those when they corner somebody.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-12-09 21:08
  Well, I'm at 8.5k. The only attacks that can one shot me from full health are.
  
  1. Thor's unblockable, where you're touching Thor
  2. Glas' critical grab
  
  That's it. Or a random critical unblockable.
  But I can't take sustained hits over time, but that's cause I'm not 10k+ defence. I've seen a Scythe Evie with 10k Def just tank everything in a Colru run.
  
  
  The only thing that keeps Fiona from being mind numbingly easy is the fact that each boss has an unblockable and that HS takes a lot of stam. Other then that, I can play Fiona while half asleep.