Officially Unofficial League of Legends Thread

• Nagizuki wrote on 2013-08-06 19:17

  Quote from Micho;1132355:

  Elise, Zac, and Thresh have been nerfed like five times already and still no balance. Riot just likes making champions these days who are extremely overpowered with superb kits.
  
  It's really sad to be honest. I think the only not OP new champ that has been released in 2013 is Quinn, that's it.

  
  
  That's what I'm saying. When has Riot ever really understood their champs, or new champs, for that matter? If they did, you'd get well balanced new champs, instead of horrendously OP champs with a slew of nerf follow ups. :p
  
  Although Elise at least takes some sort of practice. Zac's jump takes a bit. Thresh is just op.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-06 20:06

  Quote from Cucurbita;1132330:

  Some a lot more than others. For recent changes, leblanc was a huge success. They toned down her early overkill damage and made her twice as viable in the late game with a few tweaks. I was very impressed. Master Yi, while a little slight bit strong, captures everything people loved about AD and AP yi together. I think with a bit of scaling back it wont be a problematic champion.
  
  But Olaf in particular they have NO clue about.

  
  
  Olaf is one of those champs that you have to be very careful in balancing.
  
  With every champion you have to consider two types of players - regular players and the pros. You can change a champ so it'd be OP in solo queue, but see no play time in the LCS. It could also happen so that it's 100% ban/pick in LCS but nobody knows how to make him work in solo queue.
  
  Jayce was one of them, too.
• Nagizuki wrote on 2013-08-06 20:48

  Quote from Kazuni;1132369:

  Olaf is one of those champs that you have to be very careful in balancing.
  
  With every champion you have to consider two types of players - regular players and the pros. You can change a champ so it'd be OP in solo queue, but see no play time in the LCS. It could also happen so that it's 100% ban/pick in LCS but nobody knows how to make him work in solo queue.
  
  Jayce was one of them, too.

  
  
  That's exactly what my brother has to remind me of 24/7.
  "This champ is OP as shit. When's nerf yo."
  "He's never played in LCS he won't be nerfed lern 2 counter"
  
  It's extremely annoying because he's right. When looking to balance champs, Riot basically just considers pro tourny play.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-06 21:37

  Quote from Nagizuki;1132377:

  That's exactly what my brother has to remind me of 24/7.
  "This champ is OP as shit. When's nerf yo."
  "He's never played in LCS he won't be nerfed lern 2 counter"
  
  It's extremely annoying because he's right. When looking to balance champs, Riot basically just considers pro tourny play.

  
  
  That's completely untrue.......
  
  There's absolutely no evidence to suggest Riot looks only at tournament play.. to claim so is just ignorant.
• Nagizuki wrote on 2013-08-06 21:44

  Quote from Kazuni;1132390:

  That's completely untrue.......
  
  There's absolutely no evidence to suggest Riot looks only at tournament play.. to claim so is just ignorant.

  
  
  Except that it makes total sense and there are quite a few examples I can list off the top of my head that support said claim.
  Diana- zero nerfs until she saw tourny play, then abused in tourny play, then nerfed until mostly un-used in tourny play
  Elise- Minor nerfs, saw tourny play, gained tourny popularity, continuous major nerfs that are still going on today
  Kha'zix- No nerfs until abused tourny middle lane play, then nerfed
  Xin Zhao- remains unchanged, becomes virtual staple in tourny, gets nerfed
  
  You do have to admit that pro players have more heft when it comes to Riot looking at the community for what to balance.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-06 22:10

  Quote from Nagizuki;1132394:

  Except that it makes total sense and there are quite a few examples I can list off the top of my head that support said claim.
  Diana- zero nerfs until she saw tourny play, then abused in tourny play, then nerfed until mostly un-used in tourny play
  Elise- Minor nerfs, saw tourny play, gained tourny popularity, continuous major nerfs that are still going on today
  Kha'zix- No nerfs until abused tourny middle lane play, then nerfed
  Xin Zhao- remains unchanged, becomes virtual staple in tourny, gets nerfed
  
  You do have to admit that pro players have more heft when it comes to Riot looking at the community for what to balance.

  
  
  More like it takes time to balance, and by the time that Riot's come up with a proper solution, it's already been seen in tournaments.
  
  Riot doesn't just throw out nerfs for the hell of it. They spend a hell lot of time tuning first.
• TheKartheus wrote on 2013-08-07 05:00
  Tryndamere saw almost no tournament play in all of s2 because he pubstomped solo queue so hard.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-08-07 05:41

  Quote from Kazuni;1132369:

  Olaf is one of those champs that you have to be very careful in balancing.
  
  With every champion you have to consider two types of players - regular players and the pros. You can change a champ so it'd be OP in solo queue, but see no play time in the LCS. It could also happen so that it's 100% ban/pick in LCS but nobody knows how to make him work in solo queue.
  
  Jayce was one of them, too.

  
  
  Did you read the olaf thread?
  
  They wanted to buff him. So they changed a ton of things on him.
  
  Cue ecstatic players.
  
  Cue dedicated Olaf players who were quick to realize this change will actually nerf him even worse than the initial nerfs. Can't remember which rioter was in charge of Olaf, but he asked some really really stupid questions to the public. Clearly showed he doesn't play or understand Olaf.
  
  Cue logical statements of concern being drowned out in 80 pages of "YAY OLAF HAS MORE MANA AND ARMOR"
  
  Olaf really is hard to balance. But the suggested changes killed him further in higher levels of play, and only really was a "buff" in mindlessly low levels of bronze-tier play.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-07 06:04

  Quote from Cucurbita;1132680:

  Did you read the olaf thread?
  
  They wanted to buff him. So they changed a ton of things on him.
  
  Cue ecstatic players.
  
  Cue dedicated Olaf players who were quick to realize this change will actually nerf him even worse than the initial nerfs. Can't remember which rioter was in charge of Olaf, but he asked some really really stupid questions to the public. Clearly showed he doesn't play or understand Olaf.
  
  Cue logical statements of concern being drowned out in 80 pages of "YAY OLAF HAS MORE MANA AND ARMOR"
  
  Olaf really is hard to balance. But the suggested changes killed him further in higher levels of play, and only really was a "buff" in mindlessly low levels of bronze-tier play.

  
  
  If you're talking about threads in GD, they are literally cancer, so no. LOL.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-08-07 06:13

  Quote from Kazuni;1132701:

  If you're talking about threads in GD, they are literally cancer, so no. LOL.

  
  
  If you can catch it really early (first few pages) and chip in with your opinion, you're almost guaranteed to be read. But yeah, its totally cancer. The worst part about these community sourced design discussions is that some champions are harder to understand than others (olaf) and asking the community what they think needs changing my result in atrocious reworks (olaf olaf olaf)
  
  I really wish I had caught that thread just one hour earlier.
  
  I don't claim to be a great Olaf player or anything, but it seems the general masses don't even understand his strengths and kit at all to begin with and complain about completely irrelevant issues.
• Marimaster wrote on 2013-08-07 17:37
  Poor Olaf he is never used. The thing is the community is full of babies. Like me and my hatred of Vayne I want that bitch nerfed to a place even lower then hell. And Riot actually don't use tourny. They use the community forums then do some research. Why do you think Draven was nerfed. THREE PAGES STRAIGHT. Draven needs a nerf. Fuck Dravens Passive. DRAVEN UNKILLABLE. When all you had to do was play Thresh blitz or anyone with a prediction ability and shoot right where the axe was going to land. No axe = Shit Damage + No bleed early game. WHO THE FUCK INITIATES ON DRAVEN WITH TWO AXES. Oh I know. Dumbasses
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-08-07 18:20

  Quote from Marimaster;1133068:

  Poor Olaf he is never used. The thing is the community is full of babies. Like me and my hatred of Vayne I want that bitch nerfed to a place even lower then hell. And Riot actually don't use tourny. They use the community forums then do some research. Why do you think Draven was nerfed. THREE PAGES STRAIGHT. Draven needs a nerf. Fuck Dravens Passive. DRAVEN UNKILLABLE. When all you had to do was play Thresh blitz or anyone with a prediction ability and shoot right where the axe was going to land. No axe = Shit Damage + No bleed early game. WHO THE FUCK INITIATES ON DRAVEN WITH TWO AXES. Oh I know. Dumbasses

  
  
  Dude.
  
  Draven did need a nerf. You're delusional if you thought he didnt.
  
  Seriously, get out of bronze 5 already.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-07 18:26
  Yeah.. lol.. Draven was pretty massively overpowered early game. There wasn't enough counterplay.
  
  "Play thresh or blitz!" -> hardly a good solution considering they're permabanned in most elos + doesn't matter if their support/adc can outdamage you if you grab.
• Marimaster wrote on 2013-08-07 18:42
  You can play Vayne and not be stupid. You know get E at lv 1. Draven goes for his Axe bam! You E him away. Bye Bye damage. Taric stun. Bye bye damage. Sona's slow. Bye damage he aint catching that axe. Caitlyn trap right on the mark of where his axe is going. He will think twice about catching that axe. TONS OF PLAYS. but you guys wanna go meta and get Q first on Vayne. A nunu support E will fuck draven hard. Lowering his attack speed and movement making it hard for him to catch an axe. What do you mean there is no counterplay??!?! That's basically everything. No Axe = No Damage.
• Kazuni wrote on 2013-08-07 18:58

  Quote from Marimaster;1133104:

  You can play Vayne and not be stupid. You know get E at lv 1. Draven goes for his Axe bam! You E him away. Bye Bye damage. Taric stun. Bye bye damage. Sona's slow. Bye damage he aint catching that axe. Caitlyn trap right on the mark of where his axe is going. He will think twice about catching that axe. TONS OF PLAYS. but you guys wanna go meta and get Q first on Vayne. A nunu support E will fuck draven hard. Lowering his attack speed and movement making it hard for him to catch an axe. What do you mean there is no counterplay??!?! That's basically everything. No Axe = No Damage.

  
  
  Rofl. You're one of those people that tell an Ahri laning against Talon to "just play passive".
  
  No, that's not how it works. You forget that the Draven isn't a fucking bot.