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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-29 22:42
Alright, I just want opinions/thoughts on this Viktor Build I have.
[SPOILER="Runes"]
[Image: http://puu.sh/i5hqA/a4c3954346.jpg]
[/SPOILER]I'm tempted to replace the flat MR glyphs with flat AP or Scaling AP, but still not sure if that's a wise idea or not.
[SPOILER="Mastery Page"]
[Image: http://puu.sh/i5hCs/25674467a8.jpg]
[/SPOILER]21/0/9, pretty straight foreword, shame I'm unable to get culinary master for extra mana recovery.
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-05-30 00:17
Quote from Tropa;1276877:
Alright, I just want opinions/thoughts on this Viktor Build I have.
[SPOILER="Runes"][Image: http://puu.sh/i5hqA/a4c3954346.jpg]
[/SPOILER]I'm tempted to replace the flat MR glyphs with flat AP or Scaling AP, but still not sure if that's a wise idea or not.
[SPOILER="Mastery Page"][Image: http://puu.sh/i5hCs/25674467a8.jpg]
[/SPOILER]21/0/9, pretty straight foreword, shame I'm unable to get culinary master for extra mana recovery.
It also depends who you're laning against. If you're against an ad mid, you could take HP instead of MR for runes, or replace some HP with armor if you want some laning advantage against AP casters.
As for Masteries, I'd take the point away from Butcher and put it into Double-Edged sword.
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Hatsunechan wrote on 2015-05-30 00:25
Quote from Tropa;1276877:
Alright, I just want opinions/thoughts on this Viktor Build I have.
[SPOILER="Runes"][Image: http://puu.sh/i5hqA/a4c3954346.jpg]
[/SPOILER]I'm tempted to replace the flat MR glyphs with flat AP or Scaling AP, but still not sure if that's a wise idea or not.
[SPOILER="Mastery Page"][Image: http://puu.sh/i5hCs/25674467a8.jpg]
[/SPOILER]21/0/9, pretty straight foreword, shame I'm unable to get culinary master for extra mana recovery.
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/KGLfllB.png]
Is what most pros run nowadays. You can change biscuits for longer buffs, but people dont really like giving blue in solo q unless you're in high elo or it's past 20 mins. Biscuits are a lot stronger early game since that 10 mana can actually be helpful. Archmage is a meh mastery. Adds very little for all the points you're putting into it. Expose weakness and Feast are much more useful for teamfights and early game imo.
For your runes try taking scaling CDR blues so you'll get 15% cdr from that, 5% from masteries, and then 20% from morello/athene. Very CDR dependant champ for more E and Q spam for shields. Also lowers his Q cooldown to work extremely well with Lichbane if you go that build.
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/ExbydKc.png]
I've been playing Viktor quite a bit recently so I can go into item builds if you want.
Enjoy him while you can because they're going to nerf him to death soon. No mobility but his damage lategame is so stupidly strong and he has one of the safest laning phases in the game. Riot has never let a champ with those 2 strengths survive for long.
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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-30 01:49
Alright, thanks guys!
And I'm interested in what you have to say about the items you use on him.
..also, he's gonna get a potential nerf? D:
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Hatsunechan wrote on 2015-05-30 03:41
Quote from Tropa;1276895:
Alright, thanks guys!
And I'm interested in what you have to say about the items you use on him.
..also, he's gonna get a potential nerf? D:
Been trying a few builds. Standard for high elo is to get the first upgrade for hex on first back and upgrade E. You can upgrade the hex again early if you think the Q upgrade would be useful in the matchup. Standard build is normally Hex, Sorc, Morello/Athene, Cap, Void, Zhonya.
One build I've been trying out is running those CDR glyphs which gives me 40% CDR really early on without blue buff (well more like 35%~ but it's no difference) which is a huge DPS increase because it lets you spam more Q E. So this build you would probably go the same thing but it's slightly more reliable since you dont always get blue buff in solo q.
3rd build which needs some testing/math is CDR glyphs and instead of Sorc boots get CDR boots instead. Then get Lichbane instead of Morello. This makes your Q hit like a fucking truck, almost 1.5k at 6 items and it's on a 2.4ish second cooldown. If you can catch any squishy out of positon with your Q then you'll do 80% of their life, which you just finish off with Ult or E.
Also yeah his lategame damage is way too high and he can 1 shot the entire wave after getting his first hex upgrade. He's also extremely strong in trades because of his base damages + ratios. Riot nerfed a lot of those champs like Jax, Kog, Jinx because their laning phases are much too strong for being hyper carries. Riot might think he's fine though because of his immobility, might only be tiny nerfs.
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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-30 04:21
Ah alright, thanks, I usually get his E augmented asap and starting to go after Lichbane first instead of luden's/dreathcap/zhonya's. I'll try a cdr set with him, it seems like the way to go.
Also, in defense for viktor's potential "nerf", he, as mentioned alot before, lacks mobility and is very squishy.
Should I replace my magic pen marks with hybrid pens?
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-05-30 04:58
You could get hybrid pens when you're up against match ups where you know you can poke with autoattacks without much rebuttal - Riven, Talon, Kat, etc. Otherwise, your trading will most likely involve using spells more than autoattacks, in which case, mpen will serve you better. Even in the case mentioned earlier, mpen still works fine.
Also, depending on team comps, consider building merc treads. It will reduce your damage but also raise survivability by pretty good margin against ridiculously cc heavy teams that get affected by tenacity (if their main cc is knock ups, don't get merc's), or very heavy magic damage comp (mao/shyv top, gragas/sej jungle, ap mid lane, corki bot), or combination of both.
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Hatsunechan wrote on 2015-05-30 05:10
Quote from Tropa;1276907:
Ah alright, thanks, I usually get his E augmented asap and starting to go after Lichbane first instead of luden's/dreathcap/zhonya's. I'll try a cdr set with him, it seems like the way to go.
Also, in defense for viktor's potential "nerf", he, as mentioned alot before, lacks mobility and is very squishy.
Should I replace my magic pen marks with hybrid pens?
I wouldnt get Lichbane first unless you want to max Q. Flat AP works a lot better with his E, but if you do the CDR boots path it should be great to go Lichbane like 3rd item maybe. Lichbane is only good on heavy autoattacking champs like Fizz, TF. Lichbane 3rd item is fairly close to when Q is maxed so that's a lot better. Viktor's AP ratios are seriously broken so you really should abuse that. Lichbane is also not very strong unless you have a bunch of AP.
Viktor isnt even as immobile or squishy as everyone says he is though. With 40% CDR and maxed Q he has a 100% uptime shield and MS buff. Consider each Q lategame is giving him like a 200 shield every 2 seconds, he's basically getting like 1.5-2k+ extra hp per teamfight. He just cant be caught by cc and bursted.
People have different opinions on this, but I think you should run hybrid pen in 90% of situations. You should be trading autoattacks early on even as an AP mage. It's good to get into the habit of weaving autoattacks between your spells. You only lose like 2 magic pen for stronger autos early on. It's completely preference though since the runes are insanely expensive.
Quote from ironwoman;1276913:
You could get hybrid pens when you're up against match ups where you know you can poke with autoattacks without much rebuttal - Riven, Talon, Kat, etc. Otherwise, your trading will most likely involve using spells more than autoattacks, in which case, mpen will serve you better. Even in the case mentioned earlier, mpen still works fine.
Also, depending on team comps, consider building merc treads. It will reduce your damage but also raise survivability by pretty good margin against ridiculously cc heavy teams that get affected by tenacity (if their main cc is knock ups, don't get merc's), or very heavy magic damage comp (mao/shyv top, gragas/sej jungle, ap mid lane, corki bot), or combination of both.
You should still ALWAYS autoattack between spells if possible. Autoattacks level 1-3 are insanely strong and do more damage than most spells.
and @Tropa make sure you always adjust your build depending on the situation/enemy team comp. Lots of cc = mercs, lots of magic damage = go athenes/abyssal, something like sej, ashe, leona who are focusing you go qss, and get early void staff if they're building MR. Build is never set in stone, always adapt. I have a few Viktor games in my stream past broadcasts you could maybe watch, or just watch some pros on youtube.
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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-30 06:58
Alright, thanks, and I've been watching pros play him and seeing what they do in certain matchups.
I plan on making different rune sets for different matchups.
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-05-30 06:59
Of course autoattacks do a lot level 1-3... as well as it being a common sense that you land autoattacks between spells if possible. It just won't be as effective/advantageous as harassing melee champions. Also worth mentioning that Viktor is better at short trades rather than prolonged trades, because there are match ups where they simply will be able to spam skills more often than Viktor will. Viktor still has better burst than most laners early level, so you could do something like Auto - Q - Auto x 2 - E then walk away, then repeat when cooldowns are up.
I usually take Mpen marks for champions that will like to do short trades and Hybrid pen on champions that have lower cooldowns early levels. Viktor, while having good burst early, still can lose out on elongated trades against some match ups, because his Q and E are 10/13 cooldown at level 1. Even with cooldown runes and masteries, his Q and E are relatively on a long cooldown, than let's say, skills from more meta AP mid laners like Cassiopeia (who I highly recommend in the current meta). Just land your skills, avoid damage, back off, repeat as your cooldown comes back.
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Hatsunechan wrote on 2015-05-30 18:22
Quote from Tropa;1276927:
Alright, thanks, and I've been watching pros play him and seeing what they do in certain matchups.
I plan on making different rune sets for different matchups.
Just practice the laser with smartcasting, it's pretty awkward to use but hitting even 1 double hit with it auto wins your lane (or at least blows 1 pot).
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Intimacy wrote on 2015-05-31 04:31
First real game in over a month+ I didn't win but lol it's whatever, i'm happy with how i did. My little goal of working myself out of my -30 loss ratio in teambuilder is finally nearing its end. Didn't realize using it as my playground for every new champ i wanted to try would actually tank it so bad. i was at like.... 40 and 70 before i started playing graves/jarvan/irelia there to raise it.
Ekko has some really fucking nice damage, it caught me off guard and killed me a bit more than it should have, although he's still squishy as a nice supple D cup breast.
http://i.imgur.com/HSAthkk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ukrmE2j.png
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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-31 06:18
Alright, I'm gonna run this for awhile and see how it goes.
[SPOILER="more lasers"]
[Image: http://puu.sh/i6PJK/93155e84c5.jpg]
[Image: http://puu.sh/i6PM3/a9c3b0deaf.jpg]
I'll have 35% CDR at level 11, which should put me in a decent spot for mid-game lane harassment.[/SPOILER]
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-05-31 07:00
That build only works when the enemy team isn't building much MR... which will be pretty much never.
In general, if you don't go CDR boots and get Morello/Athene's, then not a good idea to get Lich Bane instead of Void Staff. Just like any other AP carries, Void Staff is a must. Your build is giving up lots of damage, especially from early Mpen sorc shoes can give you, as well as the late game percentage Mpen you're gonna miss out on. Definitely would not build this.
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Tropa wrote on 2015-05-31 07:41
Alright, How about this?
[Image: http://puu.sh/i6T95/7c0e2b8e24.jpg]
[SIZE="1"]I suppose the difference from 40% to 30% cdr on his Q isn't that much of an issue.[/SIZE]
After reading
this, I'll most likely build deathcap before bitch bane.
Also, are scaling health seals generally better for viktor then armor(matchup dependent)? Quite alot of guides suggest them.