Goodbye, for now.

• Micho wrote on 2012-03-19 16:26
  Lol are we really doing this in a goodbye thread?
  
  To be honest a PM to Kate would have been better, you guys are always telling us to PM staff if we had any issues in order to avoid drama. I expect you to do the same.
  
  Also if you haven't noticed most of our active members are either a) entirely gone (they didn't even make a goodbye thread b) They've been posting less frequently, like maybe one post per day or c) They did leave and make a goodbye thread, like this one.
  
  But really, these last few posts shouldn't be in this thread. [S]Maybe mine too.[/S]
• Elena wrote on 2012-03-19 16:43
  Guys, realize that by coming across as hostile, regardless of what side you're on, is not going to help anything. This too, goes for jabs directed at staff members. Things weren't removed just because they were directed at TA, they were removed because they were directed at a Mabination member. Remember that just because we have shiny badges doesn't exclude us from the rule of having people making jabs at us. The only difference is that we have the power to remove offending posts, which means that on top of getting jabbed at, we can have people pointing fingers at us for doing our jobs by removing posts like that. I'm not saying everyone does this, but there have been cases, and that only makes things more difficult.
  
  As someone mentioned before, just because you don't see things going on doesn't mean we're not doing it. When we make public posts like this, it's to calm the community down when we think things are all too ready to get out of hand. We can't say something about every little thing we do because in the end that might just make things worse. If something is noticeable because someone went out of their way to make the trouble noticeable, then it's going to get noticed, but the less it interferes with the community's daily functioning, the better.
  
  I also want to address TA. Guys, I know you care about the community, so I'm sure that when a person you're apprehensive about makes a very detailed post explaining everything, you read it. TA has clearly stated that she is aware that she can come across in a way she doesn't intend, and that she is trying to work on it. However, you can't expect her not to defend herself when jabs are made at her (as is the case with the very first post in this thread). This post that some of you say comes across as "haughty" would not have been made if that last line wasn't there.
  
  I mean, how would you feel if a member that left stated some general reasons but then felt the need to single you out as a reason for leaving as well?
  
  Now to address this:
  
  

  Quote from Hannah's Lover;811904:

  Oh, I know.
  But my gut tells me even though she can't personally do it herself, but all she has to do is point and it's done.
  
  This is not bashing her, but this is just a theory of what I've gathered from recent events

  
  
  Actually, TA's reports are treated like any other user's reports. We only take action if we feel that it's necessary. We are staff members because those above us trust us to make the right choices when handling reports. This includes TA. Rather than just have us do what she tells us to, she reports things that could cause trouble and leaves it up to us to handle. She doesn't order us around like we're incapable of thinking for ourselves. She lets us decide.
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-03-19 16:59

  Quote from Morrigan;811714:

  I honestly haven't seen much scrapping around here and the desperation seems uncalled for

  
  This 100%, but I also think that in reverse quitting the site is an unnecessary overreaction, but to each their own~ See ya in the Skype chat I guess!
  
  TA doesn't really have any noticeable institutional power as far as I am aware, and I doubt the psychological power she wields over the mod staff is much more significant.
• Osayidan wrote on 2012-03-19 22:14
  People complain about the community degrading and becoming more and more like the nexon forums:
  We change the way the site is run to reverse that:
  People complain the site is too strict.
  
  Can't make everyone happy.
  The majority of those hating the changes are the people who have been here since the beginning and are used to a small community where everyone knows each other. Mabination has grown, that's not what it is anymore. So let them go about their business, nothing we can do about that.
  
  Given the choice of letting the community degrade to the level of nexon forums, or losing active members because we decide to prevent it, I chose the later.
• TA wrote on 2012-03-20 00:21

  Quote from Intimacy;812354:

  TA, if you don't mind me being blunt, but you ask people to speak up if they care for the community, yet [SIZE="7"]when people voiced their hatred for you[/SIZE] being anywhere near a position of power it was silenced and posts were hidden, isn't that giving a child a baseball bat and telling them not to hit the ball?
  
  The people who were against it most were the ones who were some of the most active, you do come off haughty from time to time and it really does rub people the wrong way. The most active members should know what's best for the community. just a thought, if they didn't care about the community, why would they have stayed?

  
  
  Do you not see the problem with what I've underlined there?
  
  Any thread "voicing their hatred" for any other member, it would be removed faster than the speed of light, and severe infractions handed out. Being a member of staff does not give you free reign to insult them. They must be treated like any other member - you can't single them out like that.
  
  I said as much here:
  

  Keep individuals and names out of it. Address the core issues themselves. It doesn't even matter if you just want to blame everything on a single person. Channel that frustration into constructive feedback that addresses actions, policies, behaviors, not people. Chances are, you don't have the slightest clue what's going on anyways because all you see is the surface and not behind the scenes, so trying to single someone out wouldn't do you any good anyways. Problems. Issues. These are what are addressable. People are not.
  
  Rosters aren't going to change simply because you dislike someone. Actions, policies and behaviors, those have a very good chance of changing, if you have a good reason behind it.

  
  
  I mean, Jesus... do you guys not even read rule explanations in news announcements?
  
  

  [SIZE="5"]Rule changes...[/SIZE]
  
  [s]Do not publicly question or criticize staff members or staff actions. If you have concerns or feel you or others have been treated unfairly, please direct them to an Admin in a private message. Your concerns will be heard, and any mistreatment will be dealt with.[/s]
  
  Firstly, this rule is being removed.
  
  The wording of this rule made it seem as if we had enacted some sort of iron clad dictatorship and wished to censor and silence the members here. That was not its purpose. As such, we have done away with it.
  
  In its place, we have made two minor rule adjustments:
  
  Do not spam, flame, or troll, forum members or forum staff, be it in public threads, profile messages or private messages. Depending on the severity of the act you will receive anything from a warning to a permanent ban, at the discretion of staff.
  
  Do not harass, bully or otherwise intimidate other members (staff included), be it in public threads, profile messaging, or private messages.
  
  These small lines added to these two rules, which should have already been common sense, have been added. Unfortunately, as we would like to believe that all of our members here could understand and realize that staff here are people, and members of this community as well, we are having to remind them in some way that staff members have the same protections from harassment, flaming, bullying, intimidation, etc., that any other member here is entitled to.
  
  You are welcome to, and we encourage you to post your suggestions and feedback, as long as you can remain civil and treat staff members as you would treat any other member of this site. Very simply put, just for a moment change the staff member's name to any other forum member and ask the question of whether you think it would be acceptable to post. If the answer is no, then we think you have your answer.
  
  Hopefully treating members of staff with the same decency and respect that you would show any other member is not too much to ask of you.

  
  
  It's just like any other member. You can't go around voicing your hatred or dislike for them.
  
  If you disagree with policies or actions, you can bring up those policies and actions you disagree with, but leave names out of it.
  
  I said it before.... dropping names will do you no good except to get yourself punished for flaming another member of Nation. Describing your actual concerns, the core of your concerns, that may actually help the problem.
  
  The biggest issue is that it seems most people's brains don't seem to really follow along. Your issue or concern can't just be "I really dislike X. They shouldn't be here. They're horrible and should go away." Plug in any other member name. Is this acceptable? No. You have your answer of whether it would be acceptable to post.
  
  Names will change nothing. Ever. You have to address policies and actions.
  
  For me, honestly, it's not that hard to wrap my head around. I don't understand why other people can't grasp the concept as well.
  
  And as I said, since I'm doing an almighty fuck all here at present, your complaint of me would be, with all due respect, fucking retarded. I do nothing. I don't even effect you. You can dislike me all you want, just like you're free to dislike any other member of the forum.
  
  It's just like Osay said. The forum was degrading to Nexon-like levels, we decided to prevent that and bring back order. We hired on mods that will actively do the job.
  
  People are getting too upset over the fact that there have been practically no rules enforced for a long time now, and suddenly the rules are being enforced.
  
  Most people that are getting punished, it isn't even genuine behavior that would be punished. It's just people acting out and trying to make some kind of public statement by breaking the rules intentionally. It blows my fucking mind. Why the fuck would you go break a rule then complain that you get punished? Well, fucking duh. What did you expect?
  
  It's not mature. There are channels for addressing concerns, and if you have problems with rules for instance, you should make a collected well thought out thread about it - not break the rules just to get yourself intentionally banned just to prove a point, that... yep, herp derp, the rules exist and are being enforced. I mean, hot damn what did you prove? A big fat fuck all, except your level of maturity and responsibility.
  :fail3:
  
  ___
  
  Anyways with all of that said... Although I disagree with the reasons that you're leaving Morrigan (and others), I really do wish you the best.
• Blue Shell wrote on 2012-03-20 00:24
  Good Bye Kate, you were one of the good ones. :(
• Juno wrote on 2012-03-20 00:27
  Anyone not saying goodbye or something to that effect can make their own thread somewhere else from this point. There is a place for those discussions, but it isn't here.
• VorpalAvian wrote on 2012-03-20 00:54

  Quote from Juno;812907:

  Anyone not saying goodbye or something to that effect can make their own thread somewhere else from this point. There is a place for those discussions, but it isn't here.

  
  
  ^ -.- My friend is leaving and I come to say goodbye to her and end up reading about a lot of things that shouldn't be written in here. If you're in a position of power shouldn't you try to appeal to the general audience to which you watch over? Or at least follow your own rules and post up either a new thread that can explain what others are saying rather than one that was meant for goodbyes for a certain person. Yes, it maybe irksome if someone says something about you in a goodbye thread. But if you're breaking your own rules and making exceptions for breaking those only upon yourselves, it just makes the community question why there weren't exceptions for other cases that could have easily been remedied.
  
  

  Quote from TA;812243:

  Honestly... 7 brand new mods just thrown into it, with none of the old staff around to look to as examples ([SIZE="4"]not that it would have done much good[/SIZE]).
  
  There are 6 new mods right now. If you don't want to at least give them the [SIZE="5"]courtesy[/SIZE] of a bit of time to get everything down, then honestly, I can't respect that at all. It's like an[SIZE="5"] insult [/SIZE]to them, and an [SIZE="5"]insult to this community[/SIZE].

  
  
  Bye Morrigan
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-20 01:41
  THIS IS ALL CONOR'S FAULT.
  
  /leaves thread
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-20 01:50
  > Staff member replies to an insult/misinformation in a non-insulting manner albeit with understandable frustrated-undertones
  > Staff member is the bad guy and the member is the victim
  > ???
  > NATION LOGIC
  
  That's the last I've got to comment on here. Otherwise I'm basically trying to reason with a bunch of brick walls.
  
  

  [Image: http://i39.tinypic.com/24o6r81.jpg]
• Phunkie wrote on 2012-03-22 02:29
  Your title says "goodbye, for now," so I expect a return. :)
  
  Take a break and chill for a bit. Sometimes our anger clouds our thoughts and doesn't let us reason properly.
  
  See ya soon.