Ranged combat update

• Okami wrote on 2010-07-21 15:18

  Quote from Archibald;99813:

  The range combo has been beaten many times now. I use a firebolt charge blaze combo and beat most archers anymore (all it takes is some good dueling range ping set and perhaps a lightening magic shield). Once your in a blaze combo its very very hard to get out of. Plus even at 10% I crit for over 250 which takes out most people and at least puts the top pro's to 50%. Thhe downside and reason I think I still lose is that blaze has alot of lag sometimes. If I was lagless I don't think I would lose very oftern anymore.

  
  
  Ah, I didn't know that. I usually don't see people using FB and Blaze. :U
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-21 17:16

  Quote from Okami;99832:

  Ah, I didn't know that. I usually don't see people using FB and Blaze. :U

  
  
  He's talking about casting Firebolt (probably with speed-cast Phoenix Fire Wand) at the target, then use Charge immediately after that (so that when it hits the target, it would "bounce" instead), then charge up and use Blaze.
  
  Rinse and repeat. Use Natural Magic Shield if necessary.
• Okami wrote on 2010-07-21 18:45

  Quote from Zid;99924:

  He's talking about casting Firebolt (probably with speed-cast Phoenix Fire Wand) at the target, then use Charge immediately after that (so that when it hits the target, it would "bounce" instead), then charge up and use Blaze.
  
  Rinse and repeat. Use Natural Magic Shield if necessary.

  
  
  Yeah, I know what he means. I just never see it used. x_x
• Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-07-21 19:45
  Problem with Firebolt and then Charging is that the target can immediately either load defense, counter, or switch to a melee weapon in the time it takes to charge.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-21 19:48

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;100020:

  Problem with Firebolt and then Charging is that the target can immediately either load defense, counter, or switch to a melee weapon in the time it takes to charge.

  
  
  but wouldn't the target be still knocked down? and i thought defense takes like 1.5sec or 2 sec.
  
  then again i dont pvp so i don't know :P
• Phanterz wrote on 2010-07-22 00:31

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;100020:

  Problem with Firebolt and then Charging is that the target can immediately either load defense, counter, or switch to a melee weapon in the time it takes to charge.

  
  
  Definitely no time. You can't even get up. You can't even load windmill. Assault is 0.1 seconds, and can be used almost immediately after Firebolt. It's pretty effective.
  Though I'd like to know what to do after a successful blaze, or if the opponent pings.
• Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-07-22 00:32
  But a moment of lag, and the execution + Running time does allow a lagless opponent to switch weapons and stop your assault.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-22 12:33

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;100332:

  But a moment of lag, and the execution + Running time does allow a lagless opponent to switch weapons and stop your assault.

  
  
  well those californians hax >_<
• Yojimbo wrote on 2010-07-22 13:56
  If you want more variety in ranged attacks, then there needs to be more ways of dealing with archery to make it more complex. Let me illustrate:
  
  Melee:
  Defense > Normal Attack
  Smash > Defense
  Normal Attack> Smash
  Counter > Normal Attack, Smash
  Windmill > Counter, Normal Attack, Smash
  Defense > Windmill
  
  Ranged:
  AR/Elf Ranged > Defense, Counter, Smash, Windmill, Normal Attack, FH, Magic (out-ranged), Adv. Magic, *add almost any skill here*
  Charge > Range, ONLY if they're within range. Also, charge gets a bit problematic if the monster is moving; your skill cancels and you eat a point blank ranged attack in the face.
  
  Zero Shot is just.... pure cheese. Spamming Magnum eliminates all strategy. The only downside seems to be a lack of options against multi-aggro, but barrier spikes seem to solve many of those problems. Archery is probably fine the way it is, as an overpowered tool in specific situations. You've gotta play a giant to appreciate the tactical advantages of being able to pick off monsters at such a ridiculous range.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-07-22 14:01
  Well the key here is I don't have to hit every time. Case any of you have read my mana master guide you know I'm a hardcore tank even outside mana shield.
  
  Also yes for dueling use the speedcast wand and load charge while firebolt is still in the air by the time they hit the ground you hit them almost the same time which you do "redown" them and then load blaze for about 1.5 seconds. When they get back up after being blazed they will most likely do 1 of 2 things.
  
  Load a range shot in which you use natural shield real fast then charge after and repeat blaze combo or they may try a Lightening bolt to get back into thier combo. If you have speedcast wand your firebolt should load at same speed and if your rank 1 you wont lose the charge after getting hit meaning you can immediately cast it even if you get hit a couple times with range or LB then rinse and repeat combo again.
  
  Its pretty effective and 99% of them are done within 3 combo's at 10% the ones with 500 Hp's are done within 4-5 max. Again if you lag (which sadly I do or I'd be dueling more) this may be problematic. R1 firebolt is a must. r1 blaze recommended. And if you like me and have something like 52-54 def and 29-32 prot (I need to get 450 HP for this to be perfected) with tank set on at 10% it takes alot of combos and crits for you to die so making a few mistakes is ok.
  
  offtopic...sorry
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-07-23 04:17

  Quote from Archibald;101082:

  Well the key here is I don't have to hit every time. Case any of you have read my mana master guide you know I'm a hardcore tank even outside mana shield.
  
  Also yes for dueling use the speedcast wand and load charge while firebolt is still in the air by the time they hit the ground you hit them almost the same time which you do "redown" them and then load blaze for about 1.5 seconds. When they get back up after being blazed they will most likely do 1 of 2 things.
  
  Load a range shot in which you use natural shield real fast then charge after and repeat blaze combo or they may try a Lightening bolt to get back into thier combo. If you have speedcast wand your firebolt should load at same speed and if your rank 1 you wont lose the charge after getting hit meaning you can immediately cast it even if you get hit a couple times with range or LB then rinse and repeat combo again.
  
  Its pretty effective and 99% of them are done within 3 combo's at 10% the ones with 500 Hp's are done within 4-5 max. Again if you lag (which sadly I do or I'd be dueling more) this may be problematic. R1 firebolt is a must. r1 blaze recommended. And if you like me and have something like 52-54 def and 29-32 prot (I need to get 450 HP for this to be perfected) with tank set on at 10% it takes alot of combos and crits for you to die so making a few mistakes is ok.
  
  offtopic...sorry

  
  
  Don't worry about it. Nothing wrong with game-related discussion.
  
  Unfortunately, passive defense makes everything problematic. What would have been a perfect combination could end horribly if mana deflector activates.
  
  As far as ranged attacks are concerned, most players feel that human range is (arguably) better in PVP while elven range is much better in PVE. Arrow revolver is deadly accurate despite the lengthy load time. This ease of use centalizes the current dueling scene. All human archers should use the crossbow while dueling, imo. This allows us to prevent interuption by staying outside of melee range and charge range. You're safe as long as you can stay between 170-700 range.
  
  Meh. PVP needs fixed, citable clauses.
  
  Unrelated, Ranged DPS (Human vs Elven)
  - Refire time and latency have an equal and negative effect on DPS for all ranged skills
  
  Human Magnum Shot - 333% DPS
  Arrow Revolver - 500% DPS
  Elven Ranged Attack - 600% DPS
  Elven Magnum Shot - 1000% DPS
  
  Also, ranged combat relies heavily on critical damage (common knowledge). Archers generally aim for 130% critical. I "coined" a term used to summarize ranged weapon gain. It's called Average Damage And Weapon Gain. In addition to other notable factors like weapon speed/stun, range/aim speed, mobility, etc it provides a solid number to allow players to easily distiguish between two weapons. It's quite simple really.
  
  (Maximum damage - Minimum Damage)0.8 + Minimum damage = Average Damage
  Average Damage + Critical chance = Adact
  
  Spirit Composite Bow @ 40 Adact: 139
  Spirit Crossbow @ 40 Adact: 143
  Spirit Leather Long Bow @ 40 Adact: 147
  Spirit Ring Bow @ 40 Adact: 151
  
  Rambling :3