Lann in Vindictus

• Bmak wrote on 2012-08-12 04:50
  I was wondering if we could add a skill to Lann. Kai has a Longbow/Shortbow skill, which I, and many others, believe Lann should have also. It is unfair for the Lanns to choose between having spears and swords, mostly because many people are unable to decide on which to use and waste a ton of AP. This would be a great improvement to Lann, showing as how he is one of the weakest characters. Im sure many people would appreciate this improvement! :)
• Akemii wrote on 2012-08-12 05:03
  Kai's Long/Short bow are his first weapon!
  
  Pretty sure he'll get his second weapon in a later update... Just like Karok got the Cestus.
• Halfslashed wrote on 2012-08-12 05:08
  I've said it before, i'll say it again.
  Lann wasn't meant to be easy. Just because he has dual swords/spears doesn't mean he's supposed to be the "easy" class. He is the CHALLENGE class, so he was made weak to make him hard. Plus, spears really only need three skills that a sword lann doesn't need (Fury infusion, Spear mastery, Moon Spliiter), so it would be better to just rank sword skills anyways. As said, kai will most likely get a second weapon, as his first weapon is simply a modular bow.
• Bmak wrote on 2012-08-12 05:09

  Quote from Akemii;931955:

  Kai's Long/Short bow are his first weapon!
  
  Pretty sure he'll get his second weapon in a later update... Just like Karok got the Cestus.

  
  
  did karok start out like that? or was it updated to that? idk im new still.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-08-12 05:12
  Technically, he's the strongest character in Vindictus. Even just while spinning, his damage output is 3-4x as much per second as an Evie at the peak of magic arrow spamming without factoring in the other bonuses he has such as much more critical/an attack boost from fury infusion and berserk. He can also get top tier defense (as in, better than Evie's) that's beaten only by Fiona, and swords have the best dodge in the game. Spamming Gliding Fury/Lightning Fury is better damage than spinning, but swords are still behind spears on most things.
  
  Kai's longbow is a bit of a gimmick and he's going to be nerfed again anyway. This is not a hypothetical situation, it's happening with S2. Swords and spears will be buffed more as well. Staves will be staying the same.
  

  unable to decide on which to use and waste a ton of AP

  This is somewhat of a "people problem" and comes from both of them being really good. They don't have to mess with both, they choose to.
  
  A lot of other Lann issues are caused by poor decisions. Certain very popular scrolls (such as Explosive) make the weapon worse. Proper optimization goes a long way and the difference between a scroll like Twinkling and a scroll like Explosive is dramatic and game changing. I can almost guarantee that if people optimized their sets and the spending of their money, their Lanns would become way better than they ever expected.
  

  Quote from Bmak;931965:

  did karok start out like that? or was it updated to that? idk im new still.

  
  It was updated to that.
• Bmak wrote on 2012-08-12 05:20
  I see. The reason i made this post was because the story line told me to waste a BUNCH of lame AP on sword skills, and i have resented that. Since Lann was my very 1st character, i did not know that he had spears. At least, Nexon should make it clear from the very beginning that he WILL get a spear option and many of the sword skills are not available with the spears.
• Invertex wrote on 2012-08-12 05:31
  It's made clear now that the skill window has all available skills displayed, including Spear Mastery right from the get go. A lot of stuff isn't made clear, but it's only about 30 levels until you're allowed to switch, and you barely get 1000 AP in those levels if you're just progressing through it at a reasonable pace. ~100k is the cap, so it's a waste of 1% of the entire AP you'll ever need. It's not that big of a deal.
  
  
  Regardless, Kai is currently the only character in NA without a second weapon. As stated above, that's since he's new. Every other character has 2 different weapons that you have to split the AP amongst. It's also worth noting that Fiona has four different type of weapon skills (Sword, Hammer, Small Shield, Large Shield), and you need to specialize in 2 of the 4. You don't even get the 4th option until you're Lv. 40 or so as well. AP investment isn't really something that's too worrysome.
  
  
  And switching between weapons mid battle will not significantly improve upon Lanns at all. Lann is a very gear dependant class, where he gets substantially better as he gains more Crit, Def, etc. Switching between weapons is just a half hearted effort that does not sound as great as it would imply. If you need to switch to Swords to increase survivability, you're losing the huge sustained damage of spin2win. If you need to switch to Spears to increase damage, you're probably lacking either Def to use Spears currently or the Att to actually get significant damage boosts. Sure the arguement of "use Swords whenever it's attacking you and Spears whenever it can't" is always there, but I'm going to go back to Kai for a second here.
  
  Kai's Longbow is an absolute gimmick. It has a very few niche usages, and switching to it will actually lower your DPS significantly. Even if it only costs like 10 Stamina and takes a second or so. Lanns being able to weapon swap would cause the exact same thing, with one completely outclassing the other. If you need survivability, you really just can't take the risk of using Spears at all. If you need damage but can take hits, Swords are now completely useless. It'd be a niche thing for either a short damage boost or a short Slip Dash before you swap back (which is obsoleted with Ignition's roll invincibility).
  
  That's not even touching on all the aspects of the game that are already designed to make the two weapons completely different.
• Bmak wrote on 2012-08-12 05:58
  rebblack said that lann has a defense buff or something? is that passive already? or do i have to upgrade it using something o.o
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-08-12 06:04
  He doesn't have a defense buff, he can just wear the best armor in the game (except the shield!) and still be about as powerful. In "real world" situations, he ends up a lot more powerful because he doesn't have to stop attacking.
• Oizen wrote on 2012-08-12 06:06
  What I dont understand is.
  
  Lann has to chose between damage and survivability. No other class does this.
  
  Evie picks between Magic and Melee, both with decent survivabilty.
  
  Karok picks between 2 different fighting styles, both with survivabilty
  
  Fiona.... picks speed or damage.
  
  
  Survivabilty really shouldn't be a determining point in the weapons, that said if it werent Swords would be pointless
• Invertex wrote on 2012-08-12 06:08

  Quote from Bmak;931996:

  rebblack said that lann has a defense buff or something? is that passive already? or do i have to upgrade it using something o.o

  
  
  He's refering to armor. Lanns (and really everyone, though it's not viable on Evie) can use Plate armor and heavily enhance and enchant it in order to raise their defense to exceedingly high levels, usually above 9000. Once you get to a certain point, Def starts decreasing the damage you take by a very large margin, often allowing you to take hits that used to do 800 damage and make them do only 100.
  
  The reason why Lann is good is that he can stack defense without sacrificing too much attack. Once you stack enough, it's a lot harder to die. When you're in that situation where you can just blow through attacks, Spear Lann's built in super armor and high speed/percentiles makes him the strongest character in the game for doing damage, doing 3-8x more damage than the closest competitors.
  
  
  People say Lann is weak simply as he is a bit underwhelming at first, due to the reliance on critical hits and Def in order to get damage. Once you build up your Crit and Def, you're pretty much an unstopable wrecking ball. Slip Dash is also one of the best defensive moves in the game, and there are so many tricks you can use to bypass the most annoying boss moves.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-08-12 06:15
  Swords have damage and survivability. But if you can survive anyway, survivability doesn't matter in which case spears get better damage by a good bit.
  
  Evie basically gets to choose staves. Sorry to scythe players, but scythes suck lmao. They're alright for soloing some things staves have trouble with though. They'll get better in the future.
  
  Karok ends up with better survivability with pillars, and better damage too! At least from what I've heard. Cestus will be getting a buff at least.
  
  Fionas pick hammers right now. Swords get a huge buff in the future too. They've done a pretty good job of evening things out overall with the newest buffs.
  

  [FONT=Courier New]Survivabilty really shouldn't be a determining point in the weapons, that said if it werent Swords would be pointless[/FONT]

  Why? It's very relevant in this game.
  
  I mean, you can still go for damage if you can take the hits. I just think different weapons should serve different purposes and Lann/Evie are probably the best examples of doing this right. If it weren't like this, we'd almost certainly end up in a Fiona situation where one is objectively better than the other.
  

  Quote from Invertex;932005:

  He's refering to armor. Lanns (and really everyone, though it's not viable on Evie) can use Plate armor and heavily enhance and enchant it in order to raise their defense to exceedingly high levels, usually above 9000.

  
  To elaborate: Evies must enhance armor to +11 and have a +15 piece to wear some plate armor sets and even if they do, they're going to be losing out on at least 2,500 magic attack and a little of the defense they'd get from int. It also doesn't cooperate very well with "how the game works" because mana shields have zero defense and criticals go through to HP. So yeah, you can see how that'd be a problem. Additional issues as well such as less int which means reduced mana shield health and recovery rate, reduced mana amber health, etc.
  
  Then again, if you have enough money to afford a set of +11s and a piece of +15 armor, you're rich enough to do whatever the hell you want and no one can keep you down.
• grandpajelly wrote on 2012-08-13 06:47
  Lanns spend half the time circlejerking; quarter of the time dying and the other quarter being way too pro to play nice with others or even play with others at all. Try not to be another statistic! (Kind of a joke!)
  
  Edit: RebeccaBlack I wish I could slap you right now. If people like scythes then let them play it! Better suvivability than staff anyway. And survivability shouldn't matter because if you're not duoing or soloing you're gonna be revived a billion times and spears just aren't that hard to use in a full party. To add to that, swords do a shitload of damage in not even super pro hands. Cestus is fun as fuck and has the same dodge survival as pillar, you just can't mindlessly spam attacks and absorb shock with them. Big difference from what you said.
  
  To elaborate no dumb evie wastes money on +15 armor. They do the smart thing and buy a warlord's passion set and a tutelary/sentinel set and have about 9k to 10k with it anyway. Then we all laugh at them for being pussies and laugh until we flop over if they're using a staff. You got a damn chip on your shoulder.
• Akemii wrote on 2012-08-13 06:49

  Quote from grandpajelly;932693:

  Lanns spend half the time circlejerking; quarter of the time dying and the other quarter being way too pro to play nice with others or even play with others at all. Try not to be another statistic!

  
  
  I know some Lanns who are super good+very nice.
• TheBoulder wrote on 2012-08-13 08:33
  tbh Evy going for plate is really only worth it if you have a +13 or above weapon. The massive loss in int really makes it far less useful otherwise.