Syrphid wrote on 2010-04-16 22:22
[SIZE="3"]The auto-deadly mechanic: you cannot die when your HP is at least 50% of your max (you go straight to deadly)[/SIZE]
I build my character around this. I want to spread the word, because it isn’t well known and has to be undertaken purposefully; developed characters might need 10+ skill resets for an optimal skill build.
Benefits
1. You never die to small mistakes.
Enemy drops defense before you smash. Errant pet triggers enemy wm. Surprise aggro. Enemy magic bolt. Splashing a defending monster. Incomplete pet domination letting aggro through. No big deal; you’ll survive and can just wm as you get up. The fight goes on.
2. You never die to big boom.
Rofl at fireball. Chug chug pwn.
3. Wm takes off 10% of your hp.
Why, 10% of 20 is just 2 hp! Chug an hp10 every 6 or so wms and you’re good to go (at this level of hp, passive hp regen is actually significant).
Optimal hp
You lose at minimum 2 hp every time you wm, so too low an hp will cause you to lose more than 10% hp/wm, forcing you to pot more often. 20~30 hp is optimal for wm’ers.
~10 hp is good for non-wm’ers, allowing a decent amount of emergency wms while staying low to keep healing costs down.
1 hp builds are not recommended. 1 wm puts you in deadly and wounds are super glitchy.
Requirements
Your small mistakes will go unpunished, but if you fail to control multi aggro you will die. You MUST be proficient at aggressive pet play to hold your own in dungeons like ciar adv and maiz, where rat-like critters will swarm you physically and ghosts and blue rats will simultaneously magic camp you.
You must also be able to attain low hp ranges. 30 hp is fine but you will scream like a little girl when rats spawn; their first scratch will knock you below 50% hp, and their second will tickle you to death.
You will have to give up delicious enchant slots to make way for hp modifiers. You will have to forgo skills that give hp and defense. You’ll probably do 25% less damage than your peers. You’ll also hate black ship rats, damn them.
Skills
Combat mastery. People will laugh at you for not having r1 cm. Screw them. rNovice gives no hp. rF is the lowest you can derank to. rD allows you to use maltreat prefix on your gloves. r9 for destruction and knight. Hp from cm doesn’t contribute to base hp so it isn’t as bad as other sources of hp (you can’t get past -100% base hp in deadly, so lower base hp means shallower deadly). r1 cm is fine, although you will need demi lich croc/destruction 2handers.
First aid. rF so you aren’t a noob, but higher ranks give significant hp. r8 (current cap) gives 30 hp and 14 dex, along with nearly 2x bandage effect.
Defense. rNovice is optimal. rF gives 2 hp and 1 def. Having high defense may give you the option of switching to high hp gear as needed.
Rest. rF is optimal. Higher ranks give a ton of hp.
Sharp mind. rF is optimal.
Life drain. rN is optimal.
Enchants that matter (not all effects included)
Demi Lich (2hander prefix): -100 hp, +20 max
Untamed (2hander prefix): -30 hp, +16 max, -4 prot
Moment (weapon prefix): -100 hp, +12 max, -6 min
Goddess' (weapon prefix): -5 hp, +10 str, +5~8 dmg, x10 repair
Crocodile (2hander suffix): -40 hp, +29 max, +20 str
Destruction (2hander suffix): -40 hp, +9 min, +15~26 max
Knight (weapon suffix): -30 hp, +15 str, +5 dex
Cold-hearted (glove prefix): -15 hp, +5 max
Fearless (universal prefix): -5 hp, +4 crit
Sacrificial (glove/footwear prefix): -6 hp, +6 max, +2 str
Earth (glove/footwear suffix): -15 hp, +3 str
the Dawn (glove/footwear suffix): -30 hp
Thief (universal suffix): -15 hp, +10 luck
Deadman (universal suffix): -16~20 hp
I prefer using thief as my universal suffix because each gives 2 crit. Wearing clothing allows you to use 2 accessories, giving a lot of options on tinkering with your hp. I would suggest 2 fearless thief accs (-20 hp) and 2 plain thief accs (-15 hp; with fox, fox hunter, corundum as possible prefixes). If you have very high hp you might want fearless deadman accs (-25 hp). Fearless wild boar accs (-5 hp) to mix and match helps. Acc switching allows you to precisely control your hp even as your base grows with levels, age ups, and weapon/armor swaps.
Those with high rank cm can reduce their hp using demi lich destruction weapons (gacha gives demi lich spike claymores, masamunes, and dblades afaik; spike --> destruction) for a whopping -140 hp, which you can then augment with the standard maltreat/thiefs/fearlesses. Your only handicap will be reliance on that specific weapon. Very viable build. Wear heavy armor and a shield on your back and with a single swap you can tank what would have deadly'd you otherwise.
Titles
2 really good titles, you'll have to camp for them though.
the One Who Discovered Karu Forest Ruins: -50 hp, +20 luck
the One Who Discovered the Maiz Prairie Ruins: -30 hp, +30 str
Walking the path
Always pot up when you near 50%. If you wm past this mark and get hit you will die. The main advantage of a low hp build is that potting is supremely inexpensive. You can stock up on hp10s from Price, who sells them in stacks of 5 (50g/pot), or hp30s from any healer npc(140 gold/pot). Compare this to hp100s, at ~1000 gold/pot.
Wound pots are awesome. Each renews your second chance. During a really messy fight you might end up wanting many second chances (bring feathers to res your hapless high hp friends!), really handy. It helps to have a pot maker friend; they are usually drowning in these suckers. The demand for wound pots is really low, so you might also score cheap wound30s if you can find a developing pot maker.
Demi lich destruction/croc 2handers are amazing for mid battle mending. They allow you to increase your max hp by 140, making first aid (rF recovers 10~12% * max hp). Works best with infinite range first aid mod, you can actually mend while juggling single aggro: swap weapon --> sit --> ram --> pet mend.
When you deadly, you will be knocked back, away from the offending mob, which will be forced into post combo recovery. This is a time of peace, where you can load wm as you recover and manipulate the campers with your pet. After your recovering wm, you can run forward or backward as the situation calls, and pot as you run (ctrl + H is the default wound pot hotkey, H for hp pots).
Be warned, enemy magic will pierce deadly’s peace. Multi aggro that have committed to melee’ing you when you deadly will also ignore deadly’s peace and go for the kill. Fighting off monsters making a beeline for you as you’re being knocked back is really difficult, so you must prevent this situation from happening in the first place.
It's a good idea to get a tanking build too, so that you can take multi aggro swarms when needed.
Short term solution, transform + mana shield + shield gives you a good amount of survivability with just 3 swaps. Already you'll have a decent windheal. In a party you might want to just eat hits --> wm --> pfeather in spin --> play dead, then pet spam.
Long term solution, just chuck your -hp equips.
Syrphid wrote on 2010-05-11 07:59
Quote from Transcendence:
Optimal Low HP Build?:
Weapon: Demi Lich Destruction (~146 Max)
Hat: Wolf Hunter Thief (~6 Max)
Accessories: Corundum Deadman x2 (12 Max)
Body: Habit [Warrior] (20 Max)
Gloves: [Corundum] The Dawn (6 Max)
Shoes: Corundum The Dawn (6 Max)
For a total of -255 HP.
For a total of +206 Max Damage.
[...] equipment can be switched out for Thief and Maltreat respectively (Dropping Max damage by 5 and HP by another 30)
How much damage do I lose? :> (Assuming I'm a giant and Wooden Needle isn't available to me!)
My guru account has been suspended for reasons unknown. In any event I've ditched guru, so if you want me to answer a question post on nation please.
I would use fearless & thief instead of dawn to shoot for crit, but if you're all for max dmg,
Crocodile over destruction
Maiz title
Maltreat over corundum and raven over dawn for shoes
Looks good.
Transcendence wrote on 2010-05-12 03:58
Oh and I calculated damage comparison between damage focused build (Endgame and short-term) and Low HP build. If my calculations are correct, endgame wise, Low HP build only trails by about 20%-25%.
Justified wrote on 2010-05-12 05:33
[UB]My damage with my low-hp set is around 245. If I used Tragic instead of Thiefs and Victorious instead of Maltreat, I would have +21 damage for a total of 266. My (feasible) damage loss is a mere 7.9%. It would go up if I included better enchants, but I don't include them since I have yet to obtain them.
Quote from Justified;31806:
[SIZE="1"]You can get -275 HP without a large sacrifice in damage.
Weapon : Demi Lich / Destruction (-140)
Hat : Wolf Hunter / Thief (-15)
Clothing : Victorious / Thief (-15)
Gloves : Maltreat / Thief (-30)
Shoes : Diamond / Thief (-15)
Accessories : Corundum / Thief (-30)
Maiz Title (-30)
3 Thief enchants = -12 Damage compared to Tragic
2 Thief enchants = -12 Damage compared to Earthquake
1 Thief enchant = -6 Damage compared to Peaceful
1 Maltreat enchant = - 1 Damage compared to Victorious
A loss of 31 damage.
Plus, if you use Deadman enchants, that's an additional 0-30 HP knocked off, at the sacrifice of the Luck. -305 total without sacrificing any +damage prefixes.[/SIZE]
Giants don't lose as much as humans do, since they don't have access to Wooden Needle or Raven Long Greaves. Humans would lose another 15 damage from Wooden Needle (7) and and Raven (8) for a grand total of -46 Damage.
All in all, it looks like a 10-20% loss of damage, assuming you can even get the absolute best equipment there is. For most people, the damage loss will be on the lower side since they can't actually obtain an optimal damage set complete with Corundum/Earthquake and Wooden Needle/Peaceful (which is why I didn't count it in my first paragraph).
The lower you keep your HP, the higher chance you have of dropping one of the -HP enchants and using more +damage enchants. I made the mistake of ranking Sharp Mind to A in my early days, and it's that small 10 HP that would prevent me from using WN or Peaceful on my glove.
[SIZE="1"]Edit : Double counted Peaceful for humans. Their damage loss is less than I stated earlier.[/SIZE][/ub]
Archibald wrote on 2010-05-12 17:26
:thumb:
I use this on my giant who has a demi lich destruction D blade. Its not bad. I still prefer my Mana master (do to the fact the mistakes, no matter how often you make them, nearly never result in death) but its too expensive for most people. This build is a definate money saver if your skilled enough to handle pet play. Good guide.
Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-12 20:39
I'm a big fan of this build, but I think low-hp build is more of a temporary build than a permanent end-game build due to the fact that eventually you will have capped all the skills, or will want to.
Syrphid wrote on 2010-05-13 00:18
Quote from Jahrakal;34487:
I'm a big fan of this build, but I think low-hp build is more of a temporary build than a permanent end-game build due to the fact that eventually you will have capped all the skills, or will want to.
You give up,
First aid. rF so you aren’t a noob, but higher ranks give significant hp. r8 (current cap) gives 30 hp and 14 dex, along with nearly 2x bandage effect.
Defense. rNovice is optimal. rF gives 2 hp and 1 def. Having high defense may give you the option of switching to high hp gear and windhealing black ship rats.
Rest. rF is optimal. Higher ranks give a ton of hp.
Sharp mind. rF is optimal.
Life drain, and some random life skills. I'm far from maxing out bigger skills, so I couldn't say if low HP is a good endgame choice by experience, but I don't see how the loss is very big. I don't plan on leaving low HP in my mabi lifetime.
Chillax wrote on 2010-05-13 01:42
With max -HP equips and discovered Karu title, I think you can get around ~ negative 350-380 hp. That's enough leeway for all combat skills maxed and maybe some HP boosting life skills as well.
Transcendence wrote on 2010-05-18 00:37
There are manyy benefits to Low HP build. No time spent ranking Refine, Weaving, etc for Dex skills; no money spent for these lifeskills either. The perfect endgame comparison between the ultimate human and "endgame" equipped Low HP build sees only a ~25% difference. I mean, endgame equips and stats takes months if not years to obtain, whereas the strongest low HP equipment takes a fraction of that time!
Chillax wrote on 2010-05-18 01:43
Quote from Transcendence;38142:
There are manyy benefits to Low HP build. No time spent ranking Refine, Weaving, etc for Dex skills; no money spent for these lifeskills either. The perfect endgame comparison between the ultimate human and "endgame" equipped Low HP build sees only a ~25% difference. I mean, endgame equips and stats takes months if not years to obtain, whereas the strongest low HP equipment takes a fraction of that time!
How does ranking Life Skills have anything to do with the Low HP build? You'll still need dex for balance.
Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-18 02:01
I would think someone would have pointed out that fact that if you get WOUNDED and are still in the middle of battle that Wound Remedy pots are a MUST.
Transcendence wrote on 2010-05-18 02:42
Quote from Chillax;38198:
How does ranking Life Skills have anything to do with the Low HP build? You'll still need dex for balance.
Well for me, Demi Lich Dblade provides me with 60% balance; I get 80% balance total so I don't have to rank life skills :>
Chillax wrote on 2010-05-18 06:45
Quote from Transcendence;38272:
Well for me, Demi Lich Dblade provides me with 60% balance; I get 80% balance total so I don't have to rank life skills :>
I don't know about you, but I like having the option of choosing different weapons for each battle. The low hp build and the high max damage build are not mutually exclusive.
Syrphid wrote on 2010-05-18 07:15
Quote from Aubog007;38221:
I would think someone would have pointed out that fact that if you get WOUNDED and are still in the middle of battle that Wound Remedy pots are a MUST.
I dabble in pot making, so I always chug wound30s. Depending on how capable and careful you are though, you could dramatically cut down on deaths relying on only post battle mending. Outside of places like peaca, wound pots are more convenient than necessary, I think.
Switch from your demi lich destruction blade and pull off your maltreat thief glove, and you can patch yourself up with a single bandy or two.
Quote from Chillax;38444:
I don't know about you, but I like having the option of choosing different weapons for each battle. The low hp build and the high max damage build are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah, there are still benefits. I guess Regalius is content with using only his 2hander. I don't think I would bother with refining if I didn't range. The only time I play high HP is before lv 25, when my thiefs are inactive.
Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-22 10:52
Quote from Syrphid;38452:
I dabble in pot making, so I always chug wound30s. Depending on how capable and careful you are though, you could dramatically cut down on deaths relying on only post battle mending. Outside of places like peaca, wound pots are more convenient than necessary, I think.
Switch from your demi lich destruction blade and pull off your maltreat thief glove, and you can patch yourself up with a single bandy or two.
Yeah, there are still benefits. I guess Regalius is content with using only his 2hander. I don't think I would bother with refining if I didn't range. The only time I play high HP is before lv 25, when my thiefs are inactive.
or if you have time during battle. Use WM and bandage your self in mid animation.