Mabinomics 101 [InProgress]

• frozenwilderness wrote on 2012-10-01 20:55

  Quote from radionoise;958029:

  Here you just need an alt to get 12 regular dyes out of adv play to pay for itself.
  
  16 regular dyes in a month pay for the premium service for that given month as well.

  
  
  yes but a character card is 7.9k nx
  
  nx is ~3m/10k give or take, and dyes are.. lets just assume 180k each
  
  your chances of getting a dye amp itself is about 1/20 per character per day
  
  lets say you make 10 characters.. on average that means you'll get ~15 dyes per month if you collect all your adv play everyday.. that means around 2.7m
  
  that almost pays for premium, but not really
  
  if you have 10 charas, that usually means you had to buy 7 cards ... 7x7.9k ~55k nx
  
  to make that 55k nx back you will have to sell all the regular dyes from adv play for about 5 months
  
  i forgot to account for the 3 free characters you get at the beginning, but for a character to strictly pay for itself from adv play, it's going to take ~6 months to do so just from regular dyes
  
  if you include metal dyes + what you get off selling that, it'll be faster, but it's still going to take about 4 months to get the nx back
  
  to get it back 10 fold that's still a few years
  
  of course that's assuming that gold/nx rates are constant
• Eyeoftiger wrote on 2012-10-02 00:06
  So, power went out when I was finishing Lesson III, will retype when I don't feel the urge to smash my monitor to pieces.
  
  Anyways, thank you both radionoise and frozenwilderness for the comments (and discussion!) I'll be sure to account for your points during the future lessons over Premium Service! Have a great day!
• radionoise wrote on 2012-10-02 01:54

  Quote from frozenwilderness;958042:

  yes but a character card is 7.9k nx
  
  nx is ~3m/10k give or take, and dyes are.. lets just assume 180k each
  
  your chances of getting a dye amp itself is about 1/20 per character per day
  
  lets say you make 10 characters.. on average that means you'll get ~15 dyes per month if you collect all your adv play everyday.. that means around 2.7m
  
  that almost pays for premium, but not really
  
  if you have 10 charas, that usually means you had to buy 7 cards ... 7x7.9k ~55k nx
  
  to make that 55k nx back you will have to sell all the regular dyes from adv play for about 5 months
  
  i forgot to account for the 3 free characters you get at the beginning, but for a character to strictly pay for itself from adv play, it's going to take ~6 months to do so just from regular dyes
  
  if you include metal dyes + what you get off selling that, it'll be faster, but it's still going to take about 4 months to get the nx back
  
  to get it back 10 fold that's still a few years
  
  of course that's assuming that gold/nx rates are constant

  
  
  I said here.
  
  NX is 1.5m per 10k, dyes sell at 100k or a bit more for fast sell.
  
  If you already have the characters, then cost of character card doesn't have anything to do with it. You get 3 characters per account without spending NX, on average you can cover about 60% of monthly premium service costs on just regular dyes, not including metal.
  
  Just your starting free characters are enough to cover most of the premium service overhead. If you ever decide to spend 23.7k as a one-time fee for three more characters, you get to cover the costs for buying premium service and even make a profit out of it... and you get the benefits from housing which allow for higher and faster profit through other items, as well as all the perks and convenience of a premium service that is paying for itself.
  
  If you play mabi for a very, very long time 23.7k for basically free service and a bit of change for the rest of your experience is a bargain. Adding more characters will pay for themselves, but it will take at least 5~6 months for each one before they start to turn a profit. The real problem is having to log onto many characters, which is a pain... I find 6~7 characters ideal, since it's just enough to pay for itself and have service running even when I'm 99% inactive.
  
  It can pay for itself tenfold, it'll just take a long time... which isn't really a bad investment considering most people who would even consider doing this will still be addicted to mabinogi even after a couple of years.
• Tropacat wrote on 2012-10-02 02:45
  Just throwing my two-cents in here.
  
  While cycling through alts for adv-play items, I trade in striped marlins to the guy in Port-cobh for a chance of getting Red/Blue upgrades and wooden boards, which can sell on the market for a pretty penny.
  It only takes like two hours in Scath to fill your invi with Marlins.
  
  Also holywaters sell faster after a new generation is released due to people dying often.
• IceBlade wrote on 2012-10-02 12:17

  Quote from Eyeoftiger;957030:

  You see, even with the player inventory and additional bank space of an alternate character, the player still only has a NX to Gold ratio of 1:10,000, while the Yellow Jindo has one of 1:13,333. So why is it better? Because if you add Advanced Play and Inventory Plus, you get a Checkmule from heaven. Inventory Plus allows for you to use various storage bags to maximize the player inventory, the most efficient setup in the game right now is 15 devCAT bags, giving you 960 individual squares of inventory space, which can hold 240 Checks. That changes the NX to Gold ratio to 1:150,000, that's 1,125% of the Yellow Jindo! By adding Advanced Play, we allow for a steady supply of items that can be sold for a great amount of Liquidated Assets.

  
  
  You can only have one devCat bag per char though, so you'll probably have to redo the math on this.
  
  So fare this feels like doing economics 101 again.....
  
  

  Quote from Eyeoftiger;957030:

  1.You should add every single item you own into your Total Worth calculations, even if it exhibits the phenomenon of having so little Value it is stagnate. True or False?

  
  
  I'm going to disagree with you on this point. The only time you'd leave the value of an item like this out, is if you can't sell it to an NPC. Even if no one wants to buy an item, it's at least worth as much as an NPC will buy it from you. So items like these should be valued at NPC buying value and added to net worth as such.
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2012-10-02 14:27

  Quote from radionoise;958184:

  I said here.
  
  NX is 1.5m per 10k, dyes sell at 100k or a bit more for fast sell.
  
  If you already have the characters, then cost of character card doesn't have anything to do with it. You get 3 characters per account without spending NX, on average you can cover about 60% of monthly premium service costs on just regular dyes, not including metal.
  
  Just your starting free characters are enough to cover most of the premium service overhead. If you ever decide to spend 23.7k as a one-time fee for three more characters, you get to cover the costs for buying premium service and even make a profit out of it... and you get the benefits from housing which allow for higher and faster profit through other items, as well as all the perks and convenience of a premium service that is paying for itself.
  
  If you play mabi for a very, very long time 23.7k for basically free service and a bit of change for the rest of your experience is a bargain. Adding more characters will pay for themselves, but it will take at least 5~6 months for each one before they start to turn a profit. The real problem is having to log onto many characters, which is a pain... I find 6~7 characters ideal, since it's just enough to pay for itself and have service running even when I'm 99% inactive.
  
  It can pay for itself tenfold, it'll just take a long time... which isn't really a bad investment considering most people who would even consider doing this will still be addicted to mabinogi even after a couple of years.

  
  
  i'm counting the 3 free characters since i wanted to see how long it would take for adv play to pay for the extra characters in general
  
  also, i'm not quite sure how you came at the conclusion that you can cover 60% of the cost of premium with just 3 characters from regular dyes? if nx is 1.5m/10k and you say dyes are ~100k each... premium is what, 9.2k nx a month if you buy the 3 month version.. 0.92x1.5mx0.6=830k
  
  a 1/20 chance of getting a dye amp means you're going to get about 4.5 dyes per month on average, which makes that around 450-500k from dyes. not sure how much your metals regularly go for, but i would assume less than ruairi, so maybe 50k each? I can see it approaching 50% of the cost if you include metals, but certainly not 60% with just regular dyes
  
  and the other thing is, i've never used premium service, only vip.. does premium service also give adv play?
  
  i have 4 characters just from the free basic card compensation given by nexon, so i've only made 1 character... even with 5 characters, i hardly ever collect the adv play on my alts, unless i just happen to log on to them
• IceBlade wrote on 2012-10-02 14:47

  Quote from frozenwilderness;958015:

  the only thing that's actually decent to sell from adv play are dye amps/metal dyes.. and assuming that's about a 1/10 chance, it'd take you at least 6-7 months to recover the cost of one character in mabi gold

  
  
  

  Quote from frozenwilderness;958427:

  i'm counting the 3 free characters since i wanted to see how long it would take for adv play to pay for the extra characters in general
  
  also, i'm not quite sure how you came at the conclusion that you can cover 60% of the cost of premium with just 3 characters from regular dyes? if nx is 1.5m/10k and you say dyes are ~100k each... premium is what, 9.2k nx a month if you buy the 3 month version.. 0.92x1.5mx0.6=830k
  
  a 1/20 chance of getting a dye amp means you're going to get about 4.5 dyes per month on average, which makes that around 450-500k from dyes. not sure how much your metals regularly go for, but i would assume less than ruairi, so maybe 50k each? I can see it approaching 50% of the cost if you include metals, but certainly not 60% with just regular dyes
  
  and the other thing is, i've never used premium service, only vip.. does premium service also give adv play?
  
  i have 4 characters just from the free basic card compensation given by nexon, so i've only made 1 character... even with 5 characters, i hardly ever collect the adv play on my alts, unless i just happen to log on to them

  
  
  In your earlier post you said 1/10 chance, why the change to 1/20 now? At 1/10 like you originally said it would be 900k-1m, no? And medal dyes sell for 80k on average on Alexina.
  
  And yes premium service also give adv play and VIP inv.
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2012-10-02 14:57

  Quote from IceBlade;958432:

  In your earlier post you said 1/10 chance, why the change to 1/20 now? At 1/10 like you originally said it would be 900k-1m, no? And medal dyes sell for 80k on average on Alexina.
  
  And yes premium service also give adv play and VIP inv.

  
  
  1/10 is including metal since 1/20+1/20 = 1/10
  
  1/20 is for regular dyes only
  
  I thought metal would sell for less than 80, since I generally see metals for 80k on housing for ruairi
  
  also, just look at the wiki's adv play list, it's exactly a 1/10 chance for any dye, and 1/20 chance for a specific type of dye:
  
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Advanced_Play
• IceBlade wrote on 2012-10-02 15:06

  Quote from frozenwilderness;958435:

  1/10 is including metal since 1/20+1/20 = 1/10
  
  1/20 is for regular dyes only
  
  I thought metal would sell for less than 80, since I generally see metals for 80k on housing for ruairi

  
  
  They sometimes go as low as 50k, but I just wait a day or two and sell them for 80k again. That's the housing price though, shops might be lower. Normal dyes also go for closer to 120k on housing. And the nx rate is between 1.5k and 1.8k per 10k nx. So I guess it's closer to 50% if you use the higher values.
  
  Though for someone like me that has 14 chars on my account it more than covers my VIP service. (13 of them created 2 years ago)
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2012-10-02 15:26

  Quote from IceBlade;958439:

  They sometimes go as low as 50k, but I just wait a day or two and sell them for 80k again. That's the housing price though, shops might be lower. Normal dyes also go for closer to 120k on housing. And the nx rate is between 1.5k and 1.8k per 10k nx. So I guess it's closer to 50% if you use the higher values.
  
  Though for someone like me that has 14 chars on my account it more than covers my VIP service. (13 of them created 2 years ago)

  
  
  for me i usually take 10% out of housing price due to the transfer fees
  
  ofc u can withdraw directly from house into bags and just use it but i usually just transfer if i get a few mil sitting there and it's preventing other stuff from selling
  
  and i'm sure if you have enough characters it will cover any service, just... the pain of going through every character every day >_>
  
  if i created a character, it would be for extra storage space -- mostly bank tabs because they're really really convenient, not adv play
• radionoise wrote on 2012-10-02 16:37

  Quote from frozenwilderness;958427:

  also, i'm not quite sure how you came at the conclusion that you can cover 60% of the cost of premium with just 3 characters from regular dyes? if nx is 1.5m/10k and you say dyes are ~100k each... premium is what, 9.2k nx a month if you buy the 3 month version.. 0.92x1.5mx0.6=830k
  
  a 1/20 chance of getting a dye amp means you're going to get about 4.5 dyes per month on average, which makes that around 450-500k from dyes. not sure how much your metals regularly go for, but i would assume less than ruairi, so maybe 50k each? I can see it approaching 50% of the cost if you include metals, but certainly not 60% with just regular dyes
  
  and the other thing is, i've never used premium service, only vip.. does premium service also give adv play?
  
  i have 4 characters just from the free basic card compensation given by nexon, so i've only made 1 character... even with 5 characters, i hardly ever collect the adv play on my alts, unless i just happen to log on to them

  
  
  You only need premium service, not VIP.
  
  On average I'd say it's more like at least 3 regular dyes per month on average, per character. With three characters that's close 60% of the costs covered on just regular dyes, disregarding that you get at least twice as many metal dyes on average.
  
  I'm being generous on the average of dyes too, I usually get twice as many most of the time. Even when I'm too lazy to get on alts and just do my main, It'd be weird to get any less than three regular dyes or any less than a bazillion metal dyes a month.
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2012-10-02 18:09

  Quote from radionoise;958462:

  You only need premium service, not VIP.
  
  On average I'd say it's more like at least 3 regular dyes per month on average, per character. With three characters that's close 60% of the costs covered on just regular dyes, disregarding that you get at least twice as many metal dyes on average.
  
  I'm being generous on the average of dyes too, I usually get twice as many most of the time. Even when I'm too lazy to get on alts and just do my main, It'd be weird to get any less than three regular dyes or any less than a bazillion metal dyes a month.

  
  
  I'm pretty sure it's an even distribution to get anything, but i'm still confused as to how it's 60% of the costs covered on just 3 regular dyes
  
  3 characters means about 9 dyes every 2 months
  
  60% of 1.38m, the cost for prem service each month, is 830k
  
  you can cover 830k with just 3 to 4 regular dyes? i'm not understanding how, since you said dyes are ~100k on alexina
  
  ok wait, i get what you're saying now, you're saying 3 dyes per character per month, making that about 9 dyes a month
  
  i mean it's 1/20 items if you look at the adv play list of possible items, unless you know that the random roulette always has a dye amp in there somewhere
  
  but we don't know that for certain, and from my experience with collecting adv play, it's about 1-2 dyes per month on 1 character so maybe you're just lucky
  
  and actually i'm being generous, since the actual list contains 25 possible items, not 20
• Syrion wrote on 2012-10-02 18:34
  um
  
  here is a DYE-AGRAM
  
  1 dye amp= 1
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1aKJx]

  
  
  = 25 items
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1aKKn]
• Tropacat wrote on 2012-10-02 19:06

  Quote from Syrion;958488:

  um
  
  here is a DYE-AGRAM
  
  1 dye amp= 1
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1aKJx]

  
  
  = 25 items
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1aKKn]

  
  
  brb buying 13 more Alts
• IceBlade wrote on 2012-10-02 20:03
  So what you guys are saying, is that if I get 11 more alts, I could get 1 metal and 1 normal dye per day and passively make 6m a month like that?