G13 grievances addressed?

• User495 wrote on 2010-07-28 19:55

  Quote from Justified;108110:

  I've been playing for almost 2 years without a "hiatus." Are you saying I don't play enough?
  Most developed people I see are saying "wow that sucks, but I'll just get used to it." Or "I don't care because I'll just be a [class here] anyways." If anything, it's the lower level/more casual players who were complaining the most.
  
  
  I honestly don't see the problem with the old system. Why is it stupid to restrict skills to certain classes, but not stupid to restrict Advance Magic to wand-users? The incubus can shoot Ice Spears off with a sword, why can't I? Oh, because it's balanced and makes sense.
  
  All I hear when I see people protecting "their fantasy life" is complaining about the game getting harder or their character getting weaker. Kind of the point of balancing. Most people just want to play Mabi on easy mode, which I don't find fun at all.

  
  
  
  agreed, I'm a casual player, but I'm already used to everything, getting easier isn't going to affect me much cause this is how it is now, sure it's good, but as you mentioned earlier they're just spoonfeeding the masses
  
  honestly I would prefer it if they restricted skills to certain equipment if anything, that being said Hailstorm>Staff>Wizard only (I mean really it's 3rd Tier you have to be somewhat specialized to be doing 3rd Tier magic) and whatever other equipment there was (the equipment restrictions are no different from what we already have now so there's no way anyone can make a valid argument about it)
  
  the fact that they took away the life skills + stats from skills gained was the only problem for me
  
  though the + max dura thing ; -; I really could've used that
• starpaw7 wrote on 2010-07-28 19:58

  Quote from Tatsigi;108128:

  magic is the hardest class out've all of them. First, you gotta make a sh33tload of mp pots. Then you must spend days trying to get ADV magic or spend millions. After we must farm ap and get a bunch of int to make our magic skills any good. So until you know what you are talking about, Shush.

  
  
  Life.
  
  
  Skills.

  [Image: http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/starpaw7/PLZ/motherofgodplz.png]
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2010-07-28 20:00

  Quote from Tatsigi;108128:

  magic is the hardest class out've all of them. First, you gotta make a sh33tload of mp pots. Then you must spend days trying to get ADV magic or spend millions. After we must farm ap and get a bunch of int to make our magic skills any good. So until you know what you are talking about, Shush.

  
  
  Adv magic isn't hard to get.
  There's no gameplay restriction that stops you from getting there like 2 hours a day.
  NA people obviously grind a lot thanks to all their free time.
  Pots are the only restriction but the above statement takes that out.
  
  You can just be safe by using ur adv magic and solo ciar adv and death is like "lolwut? I never heard of"
  and you want team work in games?
  Play Final Fantasy 11, best teamwork and class system thar.
  every mob owns you and the only way to get around that is partying.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-28 20:10

  Quote from paladin;107913:

  Well
  Saka
  People who just dont want a class dont have to
  Its all about choice right?
  And good job to devcat
  Instead of risking losing their playerbase with someing that was questionable
  They gave us something to help make the game deeper

  
  
  Deeper? All this does is give you slightly higher stats and make skill training half as hard. The game is less deep with this system since there's still only one route to being respectably strong.
  
  

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;107945:

  This revision keeps Mabi at its roots, of freedom of choice, and you aren't restricted by any skills you like. It gives you a chance to boost the skills and stats you want, and you can still use everything.
  

  
  
  There wasn't any restriction on choice with the previous method. Not unless you call something less binding than humans not having stomp or wind guard restrictive. You had the option to give up certain skills for extra power if you so desired. That's, quite literally, a choice.
  
  This new system leaves you no choice but to hybridize and makes it much easier to do so.
  
  

  Quote from Moppy;107962:

  What about the people who have spent thousands on the game? The people who have played Mabi since the beginning. Classes were unfair to their biggest fans...

  
  
  Classes didn't restrict anything that those people had spent money on. At worst you could say the class system didn't affect them at all but oh well...most updates leave some players with nothing new to work with.
  
  

  Quote from Cide;107988:

  or they could, alternatively, go play wow moar seeing as they seem to like set classes soooo much.

  
  
  Set classes? WoW has set classes, what was proposed here wasn't even marginally similar to set classes. You can change them at will or just choose to basically not partake of it. It was a genius system that got whined to death before people even bothered finding out how it worked or allowed time for tweaking.
  
  

  Quote from abc33kr;108026:

  soo you are saying that mmorpg should give hax powers to nubs who put less effort into the game and screw over the old loyal costumers who pay a lot into the game?

  
  
  There was nothing hax about it, and again, the old players didn't lose any power at all. It's true that new players could get good at something quicker but at the cost of being horrible in other areas. The AP required for them to even max out their class skills would ensure they weren't 'nub' anymore by the time they really got rolling.
  
  

  Quote from Justified;108057:

  This is stupid now. G13 basically just makes everything easier (more stats and faster training with no downsides). Skills are easy enough to rank as it is.
  
  Most people who weren't stubborn (saying "CHANGE! OMG DEVCAT SUCKS!") agreed that it needed some fine-tuning to be a good update, but all they did was scrap the entire idea to spoon-feed the masses. They're turning their back on actual game improvements just to appease certain players, which I think is a terrible choice for developers to make. They're just selling out.

  
  
  Selling out indeed. None of the original intent survived.
  
  

  Quote from Zeo;108072:

  I'm very happy with DevCAT now, I do not the like the ideas of being restricted and I hate it when people goes all "Oooh, go adventurer and you'll just be fine~" . x:

  
  
  ._.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-28 20:12

  Quote from Justified;108110:

  I've been playing for almost 2 years without a "hiatus." Are you saying I don't play enough?
  Most developed people I see are saying "wow that sucks, but I'll just get used to it." Or "I don't care because I'll just be a [class here] anyways." If anything, it's the lower level/more casual players who were complaining the most.
  
  
  I honestly don't see the problem with the old system. Why is it stupid to restrict skills to certain classes, but not stupid to restrict Advance Magic to wand-users? The incubus can shoot Ice Spears off with a sword, why can't I? Oh, because it's balanced and makes sense.
  
  All I hear when I see people protecting "their fantasy life" is complaining about the game getting harder or their character getting weaker. Kind of the point of balancing. Most people just want to play Mabi on easy mode, which I don't find fun at all.

  
  
  I'm pretty sure that no one wants to Mabinogi to be on easy mode. It sounds great and all, but it's horrible in practice. I mean, really? Everyone loves a challenge. And the old system definitely showed some of that, but it was a little too much and that's what the majority saw.
  
  It also shunned away all that effort spent on skills from different skill tabs than your "main one." Sure, we could have switched every rebirth, but I feel like it destroyed the original concept of Mabinogi.
  
  Someone said it before on these forums, Mabinogi is all about incorporating different skills for different situations. It's all about the ability to switch to Alchemy to defend yourself against something you otherwise couldn't defend with Melee. It's all about that freedom, you know?
  
  Yes, even if your total level is 9000 and you don't really need to switch to other skill tabs very often. Just having that freedom makes it a little bit better. You never know when you'll need to use a non-magic skill. And if you never do, it's up to the developers to keep offering you new content so that you won't get bored. So that you won't have to keep spamming the same skills over and over again.
  
  The old system wasn't very balanced. Your stats decreased as your leveled up; I thought that was ridiculous. Your STR should have stayed the same as a Wizard, not decrease as you leveled. Sure, you didn't need STR, but HP too? It definitely needed some tuning.
  
  I agree that this current system is a little too good to be true, but I'm pretty sure that DevCat will fix it up for when it finally is released.
  
  I, for one, would not mind class-specific skills. I mean, we do have race-specific skills, yeah? As long as they don't overshadow the "Adventurers" with so much class-specific content, it should be fine. I just want DevCat to keep updating them equally. Melee, Range, Alchemy and Magic, all equally.
  
  They also promised to go back to the old areas and fix them up. Places in Iria, for example. I'd love to see that too.
  
  To sum it all up, I don't think anyone wants Mabinogi in easy mode, as you said. The old system was just a little too much. This one is good (for now) and it works! But it also needs some fixing. We can't have overpowered newbies running around so easily.
  
  Perhaps they could make obtaining classes a little challenging? Just an idea.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-28 20:18

  Quote from Justified;108110:

  I've been playing for almost 2 years without a "hiatus." Are you saying I don't play enough?
  Most developed people I see are saying "wow that sucks, but I'll just get used to it." Or "I don't care because I'll just be a [class here] anyways." If anything, it's the lower level/more casual players who were complaining the most.
  
  
  I honestly don't see the problem with the old system. Why is it stupid to restrict skills to certain classes, but not stupid to restrict Advance Magic to wand-users? The incubus can shoot Ice Spears off with a sword, why can't I? Oh, because it's balanced and makes sense.
  
  All I hear when I see people protecting "their fantasy life" is complaining about the game getting harder or their character getting weaker. Kind of the point of balancing. Most people just want to play Mabi on easy mode, which I don't find fun at all.

  
  
  That's cuz those ppl r brainwashed with stereotypical mmorpgs. mabinogi has always been a game of hybrids and freedom of skills.
  A person can fight with broadswords then switch off to a llb to shoot enemies and still be able to thunder hobs in raft.
  in order words, mabinogi has been designed to be classless. you need all those skills to enjoy mabinogi.
  
  i loled at your wand argument, you can easily use a mana preserve stone to switch off to dual broadswords to continue smashing/windmilling, there are no such thing as "wand users," they are the ones who chose to use wands. A meeler like me could cast thunder full charge, open the chest, shoot th, and switch off to broad and start wming.
  the incubus being able to charge IS with a sword argument also fails since they are fomors the ones who can chaincast any magics without a wand. miletians can't have the powers that fomors have as their genetic talent. humans/giants/elves do not have the talent to handle adv magic, they need a wand to be able to handle it. if that doesn't make sense to you, here is an analogy: you can't shoot arrows without a bow so how does it make sense to cast adv magic without a wand? Thus, the weapon limitation system is not "stupid".
  
  While the old class system in the other hands, destroys the balance already set in mabinogi, which can be summarized to while people can use all the skills in the game, it really isn't possible to use them all at the same time due to weapon limitations. Besides, all other mmorpgs r boring since you are stuck to one thing.
  
  Here is a simpler version of what i said, you went to a restaurant and you wanted five things in the menu. In reality(other mmos), restaurants will charge you full price for those 5 items or refuse to give 1/5 samples of each food and charge you 1/5 per each food. In fantasy life(mabinogi), restaurants will give you all 5 of those foods and charge you the price of one meal. While you can't eat all 5 of those food at the same time (weapon limitation), you can enjoy them all eventually. so why destroy a such an ideal system and replace it with a cold, heartless one.
  
  and @your mabinogi getting easier argument, these damage boosts are there to help out low leveled people. if they can't catch up quick enough, they won't be able to enjoy all that mabinogi has to offer.
  the class system won't really make things easier for developed players as they are already developed.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-28 20:25

  Quote from abck3r:

  That's cuz those ppl r brainwashed with stereotypical mmorpgs. mabinogi has always been a game of hybrids and freedom of skills.
  A person can fight with broadswords then switch off to a llb to shoot enemies and still be able to thunder hobs in raft.
  in order words, mabinogi has been designed to be classless. you need all those skills to enjoy mabinogi.

  
  
  Whoever's idea it was to give giants the shaft in 2/4 areas then should be kicked in the shins.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-28 20:26

  Quote from Juno;108178:

  Whoever's idea it was to give giants the shaft in 2/4 areas then should be kicked in the shins.

  
  
  nexon's racist ideas :/
  but range is the only area that giants are out of so its 3/4
• Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-07-28 20:29
  For the original system, I just don't like how you have certain skills be limited to get boosts. For me, it would be like working with one hand on a project for 3 weeks. Though there was the "Adventurer" class, that failed for the high level players who had all of their skills high ranked, and wanted to try the new ones, but would have to give up some of their already high ranked skills, and possibly be forced to change their playing style.
• paladin wrote on 2010-07-28 20:29
  great i hope thats the test sever giltch they talk about
  Another reason the first update wasnt liked was
  The idea if you stayed classless the g-13+ updates skills maybe would get cut off to you
  Like you could stay classes but any new skills you wouldnt have acess too post g13
  So you decided not to ride the wave of g13 and devcat says no more skills for you?
  Is that very fair?
• Zeo wrote on 2010-07-28 20:31

  Quote from IceBlade;108107:

  It might just be a glitch. I read on the NX forum someone saying that people that picked no Class weren't able to Advance any skills.

  
  
  Yup, plus, this is a test server, so they'll improve whatever they have issues, with, before releasing everything into main server, lol.
• Schezo wrote on 2010-07-28 20:32
  At least the Class system doesn't cheese Hybrids as hard.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-28 20:37

  Quote from abc33kr;108183:

  nexon's racist ideas :/
  but range is the only area that giants are out of so its 3/4

  
  
  Giants also have a significant disadvantage with magic, which while not nearly as crippling is becoming more pronounced now that int is playing a larger role. You can of course still play a strong giant mage, but you'll never quite match up to a human/elf mage with the lower int/mp growth and less int/mp from skills.
  
  

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;108185:

  For the original system, I just don't like how you have certain skills be limited to get boosts. For me, it would be like working with one hand on a project for 3 weeks. Though there was the "Adventurer" class, that failed for the high level players who had all of their skills high ranked, and wanted to try the new ones, but would have to give up some of their already high ranked skills, and possibly be forced to change their playing style.

  
  
  There was a lot more to g13 than the class system. Even if you decided not to partake of it there was still plenty of new content. While what you're saying is true I think that the plethora of extra options it brought to the game far outweighed that.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-28 20:37
  G13 should just be erased. Everything was fine until the melee masteries tipped the scales, Leap Attack soaked up the hype, the intermediate magic damage nerf, then classes were introduced and everything went to heck. Then classes were replaced with "classes" but it's actually more or less the same except the game is easier with these "classes."
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-28 20:42
  I'd still prefer it if they kept the equipment restrictions to a "class"
  
  noone should be using 3rd Tier magic without being dedicated to magic <.<
  
  Leap Attack seemed abit reasonable, but then again it allowed you to have an almost infinite combo (then again magic/range already has that)
  
  this gives more reason for those "pros" to brag about their "skills" ;-;
  
  there's also the idea that the more skills that are easily distributed the more like other MMOs this game will become (in terms of numbers, I remmeber back when I played it was fun to have a simple amount of stats, I noticed how it was different partly from the fact that I don't start off with like 100 hp, now we find people that have 500+ hp without trans) people are hitting 10k damage etc, there's not really a problem with that, but I don't want to see the day when we're hitting 100k damage and have 40k hp or something
  
  though I have no problems with the update, or the change in the update