What does Lann have over Vella?

• Dracius wrote on 2012-11-05 05:54

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;975605:

  Spears - More damage.
  Swords - ???
  
  Swords likely lose out a little in survivability and damage, but this is nothing new to characters. He was already losing to glitching Kais. Some weapons, like cestus, have been pretty bad from the start and still are to this day. Swords are still pretty good, they're just gaining competition and are now probably in the upper middle rather than near the top.
  
  So no, it's not balanced and it's never going to be balanced. But Spear Lanns still have the best DPS potential, more than glitched Kai being that he has Fury Infusion and can actually utilize attack speed. They're not for everyone and if you want to be at your best but don't want to play a lot (or spend money), you're probably better off with Vella or Kai. Not by much though, it's not necessarily worth remaking your character over.

  
  
  The way Vella is now, she's essentially the replacement for Sword Lann, and can keep up with Spears as well. Call it selfish/jealousy, but she's everything a Sword Lann should've been, except for being female. And she's getting a second weapon as well, that isn't Spears.
  
  This just reminds me terribly of MapleStory, with the new classes that constantly overshadow the original ones by a large margin. True, it's good to have variety, but why bother with variety when it means having a superior option that makes everything else worthless?
  
  I'd delude myself into thinking this could mean a revamp for Lann, but more male characters just seems like the realistic option.
• Oizen wrote on 2012-11-05 06:12
  Its just a hunch, but I feel like Vella started out as a Sword lann revamp, then they decided to cash in on it by giving it tits and making people buy her underwear and raise a new character.
  
  
  Just a hunch though
• Dracius wrote on 2012-11-05 06:20
  Now I feel worse.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-05 06:20

  Quote from Dracius;975617:

  The way Vella is now, she's essentially the replacement for Sword Lann, and can keep up with Spears as well. Call it selfish/jealousy, but she's everything a Sword Lann should've been, except for being female. And she's getting a second weapon as well, that isn't Spears.
  
  This just reminds me terribly of MapleStory, with the new classes that constantly overshadow the original ones by a large margin. True, it's good to have variety, but why bother with variety when it means having a superior option that makes everything else worthless?
  
  I'd delude myself into thinking this could mean a revamp for Lann, but more male characters just seems like the realistic option.

  
  I think it's a little unfair to say she can "keep up" with spears because it implies they do basically the same damage. She hits hard, yeah, but she's built more around the combination of hitting hard+survivability and sacrifices a little damage as a result. Spears have to work to pull that out, though, so I'll admit that.
  
  She's going to be a good character, but she's not the end of Lann. Maybe Sword Lann.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-05 07:41

  Quote from Dracius;975570:

  Honestly, I think it's just the fact that Cross-Counter goes THROUGH the enemy, makes you invincible, chains into another attack that goes through and does immense damage that she's OP.

  
  
  It'd be wonderful if Gliding/Lightning Fury did the same thing. -_-
• foreignreign wrote on 2012-11-05 14:38
  Both Lanns are stronger than Vella.
  
  In a sandbag situation where a boss doesn't get to retaliate, Lann will out-damage Vella.
  
  Lann also doesn't have to worry about certain attacks not being counter-able like Vella does in order to do his max damage.
  
  Lann damage is also much more consistent and easier to do his peak damage.
  
  Lann technically does more damage in smaller windows.
• RealityBreak wrote on 2012-11-05 15:50

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;975605:

  Spears - More damage.
  Swords - ???
  
  Swords likely lose out a little in survivability and damage, but this is nothing new to characters. He was already losing to glitching Kais. Some weapons, like cestus, have been pretty bad from the start and still are to this day. Swords are still pretty good, they're just gaining competition and are now probably in the upper middle rather than near the top.
  
  So no, it's not balanced and it's never going to be balanced. But Spear Lanns still have the best DPS potential, more than glitched Kai being that he has Fury Infusion and can actually utilize attack speed. They're not for everyone and if you want to be at your best but don't want to play a lot (or spend money), you're probably better off with Vella or Kai. Not by much though, it's not necessarily worth remaking your character over.

  
  
  What's the Kai glitch?
• MareneCorp wrote on 2012-11-05 16:40

  Quote from RealityBreak;975754:

  What's the Kai glitch?

  
  
  Not sure if that can be discussed here, but it's just to make Kai fire shortbow arrows faster.
• RealityBreak wrote on 2012-11-05 16:43

  Quote from MareneCorp;975786:

  Not sure if that can be discussed here, but it's just to make Kai fire shortbow arrows faster.

  
  
  Well, I just googled it; seems interesting.
  Lann has balls and Vella doesn't. Determining factor?
• Dracius wrote on 2012-11-05 17:06

  Quote from foreignreign;975736:

  Both Lanns are stronger than Vella.
  
  In a sandbag situation where a boss doesn't get to retaliate, Lann will out-damage Vella.
  
  Lann also doesn't have to worry about certain attacks not being counter-able like Vella does in order to do his max damage.
  
  Lann damage is also much more consistent and easier to do his peak damage.
  
  Lann technically does more damage in smaller windows.

  
  
  Alright, but Vella can just create a sandbag situation that's even more useful than Boss Bash/Clash (But much more rarely) that requires nothing but an entire SP bar.
  
  Vella makes dealing damage easy and look great, while Lann may deal more damage, but it looks clunky and is hard to perfect.
  
  Not to mention she combines the key aspects of other classes. She has the range of spears, survivability of swords, stunlock of a Karok, counter of a Fiona, and gravity control like an Evie. The only thing she's missing is Kai, but that would just end the game.
  
  Like how 3960 Hurricane would trump every attack in terms of raw damage, but just spamming that endlessly is no fun at all.
  
  I watched a Keaghan solo for a Sword Lann, and all I saw was Slip -> DC -> Slip -> DC -> Pummel Storm -> Repeat
  That might put out the most damage, but it must be boring as hell to do. Sure, you could get a little bit of thrill from avoiding his attacks, but it's nothing special.
  
  If I wanted to stand in one place and spam a skill for high numbers, I'd be on MapleStory.
• foreignreign wrote on 2012-11-05 17:34

  Quote from Dracius;975807:

  Alright, but Vella can just create a sandbag situation that's even more useful than Boss Bash/Clash (But much more rarely) that requires nothing but an entire SP bar.

  
  
  ... and that just means while Vella is holding the boss Lann gets more DPS in.
  
  

  Vella makes dealing damage easy and look great, while Lann may deal more damage, but it looks clunky and is hard to perfect.

  
  
  Uh? Sword Lann has it easy when it comes to dealing damage. Slip an attack, Double Crescent, maybe Glide, repeat. How is that not easy? And "look great" is entirely subjective. I still prefer glides to Vella's Cross Counters, especially after realizing it's the same animation as her Gale cuts, except with more flashes everywhere.
  
  

  Not to mention she combines the key aspects of other classes. She has the range of spears, survivability of swords, stunlock of a Karok, counter of a Fiona, and gravity control like an Evie. The only thing she's missing is Kai, but that would just end the game.

  
  
  But her damage is still not top-tier. So basically she's a jack-of-all trades and does exactly what all jack-of-all trades do; decent at a lot of things, but does not excel in anything in particular.
  
  

  Like how 3960 Hurricane would trump every attack in terms of raw damage, but just spamming that endlessly is no fun at all.

  
  
  Spinning sucks now.
  
  

  I watched a Keaghan solo for a Sword Lann, and all I saw was Slip -> DC -> Slip -> DC -> Pummel Storm -> Repeat
  That might put out the most damage, but it must be boring as hell to do. Sure, you could get a little bit of thrill from avoiding his attacks, but it's nothing special.

  
  
  And what does Vella do for damage?
  
  LR, maybe LLRR for Swordsman's Pride buffs.
  
  Counter when you can't slip the attack.
  
  Throw in the odd projectile deflection whenever that happens (for the life of me I cannot remember what the name for this is). Sometimes you don't even get to use that on certain bosses.
  
  Her LLLR is worthless really, and her Gale cuts are slow and aren't that great damage. You're better off going for LRs and countering DPS-wise than using Gale cuts. As far as the movement benefit on them goes, you can just as easily use LLR for quick movement and then throw in a second smash to leap away or towards something. So if we're just going for max efficiency, Vella will really only use three, maybe four moves depending on the boss. Which is about the same amount of moves Lann does.
  
  

  If I wanted to stand in one place and spam a skill for high numbers, I'd be on MapleStory.

  
  
  Then why aren't you playing MapleStory, since all you really do in Vindictus is spam two, maybe three moves for each character.
• Dracius wrote on 2012-11-05 18:21

  Quote from foreignreign;975828:

  ... and that just means while Vella is holding the boss Lann gets more DPS in.
  
  
  
  Uh? Sword Lann has it easy when it comes to dealing damage. Slip an attack, Double Crescent, maybe Glide, repeat. How is that not easy? And "look great" is entirely subjective. I still prefer glides to Vella's Cross Counters, especially after realizing it's the same animation as her Gale cuts, except with more flashes everywhere.
  
  
  
  But her damage is still not top-tier. So basically she's a jack-of-all trades and does exactly what all jack-of-all trades do; decent at a lot of things, but does not excel in anything in particular.
  
  
  
  Spinning sucks now.
  
  
  
  And what does Vella do for damage?
  
  LR, maybe LLRR for Swordsman's Pride buffs.
  
  Counter when you can't slip the attack.
  
  Throw in the odd projectile deflection whenever that happens (for the life of me I cannot remember what the name for this is). Sometimes you don't even get to use that on certain bosses.
  
  Her LLLR is worthless really, and her Gale cuts are slow and aren't that great damage. You're better off going for LRs and countering DPS-wise than using Gale cuts. As far as the movement benefit on them goes, you can just as easily use LLR for quick movement and then throw in a second smash to leap away or towards something. So if we're just going for max efficiency, Vella will really only use three, maybe four moves depending on the boss. Which is about the same amount of moves Lann does.
  
  
  
  Then why aren't you playing MapleStory, since all you really do in Vindictus is spam two, maybe three moves for each character.

  
  
  Oh, that right, I forgot Moon Splitter was the highest DPS skill, so you spam some vertical spinning now.
  You seem to be focusing on the technical side of things, where it's all numbers.
  
  And if she's so weak, how come she has one of the fastest Elchulus solos I've seen?
  Don't see a single Lann solo of Elchulus. And from all the Vella solos, I see her using a good amount of her smashes, unlike Sword Lann which is just Pummel Storm/Double Crescent.
  
  And MapleStory spamming is wildly different from Vindictus spamming.
• foreignreign wrote on 2012-11-05 18:35

  Quote from Dracius;975865:

  Oh, that right, I forgot Moon Splitter was the highest DPS skill, so you spam some vertical spinning now.
  You seem to be focusing on the technical side of things, where it's all numbers.

  
  
  You spam Moonsplitter in parties where you can afford to do that, yes.
  
  But unless you have tank DEF, you won't spam Moonsplitter in something like Keaghan. You do LR -> Glide for short windows, or spin in circles around him or towards him to keep spinning until you can Glide, you Moonspliter when he's down or being held or when you know his back will be open, you Sprint Smash/Roll -> Glide when he does his uppercuts, you Roll Roll Roll Roll -> Glide when he does his 4-hits, when jump smash gets fixed, you can instead jump smash -> crit instead of LR if you don't like the hit-delay on LR.
  
  Yes "top damage" is just Moonsplitter, but you're the one that's focusing on the technical side of things since all you're doing is oversimplifying everything.
  
  

  And if she's so weak, how come she has one of the fastest Elchulus solos I've seen?
  Don't see a single Lann solo of Elchulus. And from all the Vella solos, I see her using a good amount of her smashes, unlike Sword Lann which is just Pummel Storm/Double Crescent.

  
  
  Because gear and people being lazy and getting lucky on attack patterns and not everyone recording all their solos.
  
  Solo videos are hardly evidence of anything character-wise because of the gear factor and skill factor and the fact that it's purely up to the community to make those videos.
  
  
  

  And MapleStory spamming is wildly different from Vindictus spamming.

  
  
  OK.
• Oizen wrote on 2012-11-05 18:55
  I kinda wish they'd revamp the animations for Lann, and maybe even fiona.
  
  
  They seem so....static compared to later characters, or maybe its just that Lann has 4 attacks using the same animation over and over again...
• Dracius wrote on 2012-11-05 19:09

  Quote from foreignreign;975876:

  You spam Moonsplitter in parties where you can afford to do that, yes.
  
  But unless you have tank DEF, you won't spam Moonsplitter in something like Keaghan. You do LR -> Glide for short windows, or spin in circles around him or towards him to keep spinning until you can Glide, you Moonspliter when he's down or being held or when you know his back will be open, you Sprint Smash/Roll -> Glide when he does his uppercuts, you Roll Roll Roll Roll -> Glide when he does his 4-hits, when jump smash gets fixed, you can instead jump smash -> crit instead of LR if you don't like the hit-delay on LR.
  
  Yes "top damage" is just Moonsplitter, but you're the one that's focusing on the technical side of things since all you're doing is oversimplifying everything.
  
  
  
  Because gear and people being lazy and getting lucky on attack patterns and not everyone recording all their solos.
  
  Solo videos are hardly evidence of anything character-wise because of the gear factor and skill factor and the fact that it's purely up to the community to make those videos.
  
  
  
  
  OK.

  
  
  I say technical as in damage output, animation delays, etc.
  And I oversimplify because there's countless bosses that all have different attack patterns and certain attacks that are impossible to counter/dodge and etc.
  My gripe is that she's in the same league as Sword Lann damage-wise, and all her skills flow together smoothly.
  
  I'll admit, I should've mentioned Sword Lann as my primary concern more often though.