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• Kyouria wrote on 2012-11-21 18:26
  
  
  • Preferably cheap and in-stores
    
  • For Home, Student, Hobby (i.e. gaming) use
    
  • Can support Mabinogi
    
  • Taskbar Start Button, please ;-;
    
  • 64-bit? It seems most programs are best compatible with this
    

  
  
  I've used Windows HP/XP/7 for years but am open to new computer companies. My current computer is (view spoiler please):
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
  Model: HP Pavilion dv6 Notebook PC
  Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II N930; quad-core processor 2.00GHz
  Installed memory (RAM): 6.00 GB (5.74 GB usable)
  System type: 64-bit Operating System
  [/SPOILER]
  
  Reason I need a new computer is because my current laptop (HP Pavilion dv6 / windows 7) keeps giving me electrical shocks occasionally, and refuses to charge the battery so I need to keep it plugged in all the time.
  
  I'll probably be buying the laptop at Best Buys (http://www.bestbuy.com/) - in-stores. I don't like to buy large purchases online (other than school textbooks). And the task bar start button is there because when I saw my dad's new laptop, the "start button" was shown as a full screen menu page that took up the whole entire screen.
  
  Thanks in advance!!:bow:
• Yoorah wrote on 2012-11-21 19:46
  The "huge screen" start button is the standard feature of Windows 8, which all new laptops will be shipping with. If you want the old standard button/menu, you'll need to get an older laptop with Windows 7, or use some hack to get it working on Windows 8 (I don't know if there are any good ones, and I would not recommend it.) I suggest you just get used to the Windows 8 screen, because otherwise, it will limit your purchasing selection. D:
  
  Another note I should make is that Mabinogi (or HackShield) is currently not totally compatible with Windows 8. I got frequent speedhack errors when I tested Windows 8 and Mabi on my machine. Proper Windows 8 support for Mabi is coming soon, however (already implemented in overseas Mabi versions).
  
  As for the other requirements, what it is that you consider "cheap"?
  ...which ties into gaming. If you want to run Mabi, then a basic system with integrated graphics is adequate. But if you intend to run more graphically intensive games, you likely won't have a great experience and would need something with a dedicated graphics processor. These models, however, are more expensive.
  
  And do you have a preference for smaller or larger screen sizes?
• Kyouria wrote on 2012-11-21 19:51
  Smaller screen sizes for the lesser weight
  
  As long as it supports Mabinogi, it should be fine since I don't really play any other PC games. Is there a way to downgrade into Windows 7? Would a Best Buy rep be able to help me get a Win 7 computer or is everything in-stores now Windows 8?
  
  Thanks, Yoorah ^^
• Lewd wrote on 2012-11-21 19:56
  I'd say get a Thinkpad, but those arent cheap
• Yoorah wrote on 2012-11-21 20:09
  The only ways to downgrade to Windows 7 are to request it during your order when you're ordering a custom-configured system (can't do this at Best Buy), or by formatting the hard drive and installing a new copy of Windows 7 yourself. The latter means that you also have to buy an extra copy of an OS (Win 7), which adds a lot (~$100) to the total cost of the new laptop. D: You'll also probably have to manually find and install drivers for all the devices, since it won't come pre-configured on a fresh install. This can be a pain in the butt, especially if you're not experienced with this kind of stuff.
  
  A Best Buy rep can definitely help you find a laptop with Windows 7 on it, but like I said, the selection will be far more limited. They're being phased out right now. D:
• Evaris wrote on 2012-11-21 20:53
  I have to agree with everything Yoorah has stated thusfar. Though I wouldn't worry about finding a W7 laptop, I know that most department stores will hold their laptops on hand until their sold, often giving discounts on older models. I know Office Depot does at least.
  As far as what you're looking at, very low spec'd PCs will run mabi just fine, though if you want some speed behind it, you're likely looking at an AMD A-series APU for your processor on whatever you get in terms of value in general.
  By what i've seen taking a quick look, this Asus is probably your best bet if they have it in stock (or can order it) at your local bestbuy;
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+K+Series+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+500GB+Hard+Drive+-+Matte+Light+Indigo/6087209.p?id=1218717240847&skuId=6087209
  
  Windows 7, quad core Trinity APU, assembled by Asus, and $380. Pretty good deal all-around.
• Kyouria wrote on 2012-11-21 21:58
  My friend recommended HP ENVY ( http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=5759136&type=product&id=1218691610874 ) It even has a nice design. Unfortunately, the Best Buy location near me doesn't have any win 7 laptops. Why are they so quick to jump onto the Win 8 wagon? They said they could order from their warehouse, but that would require me making 2 trips to Best Buys. I really wanted to be able to mess with it before buying it also..
  
  I might look into Windows 8 but the lack of compatibility with various programs (including Mabinogi) puts me off. I use a tablet/photoshop too so that worries me as well.
• Yoorah wrote on 2012-11-21 22:46
  Tablet and Photoshop should run in Windows 8 just fine. It's only weird programs like Hackshield that have issues, and even that will be worked out soon enough... supposedly.
  
  As for that HP.. it would be rather painful to see someone spend that much on a consumer-grade HP laptop when a pro-grade Lenovo T430 can be had for a similar amount, and with better specs too. D: Too bad you're against buying online. ):
• Evaris wrote on 2012-11-23 13:26
  For the price, you can get much better laptops from a number of sources.
  Have you asked if they could order the laptop to their store? you'd still pay in store and such, and I know Bestbuy used to do it.
  
  Asus > HP in a number of regards. (The way that I usually consider things for quality, Clevo [Sager] > Asus > MSI = Samsung = Lenovo > HP > Sony > Dell > Acer) On a case-in-point though, that $380 Asus will be about as fast in gaming as that $690 HP. And that Asus still has more power than you're liable to use.
  
  Also, do you have any other department stores around? Office depot / office max / staples or the like? They may have some windows 7 laptops.
• Kyouria wrote on 2012-12-05 11:02
  I ended up buying an HP Envy m6 but I'm already having so many issues. Win8 in general makes Skype use difficult because its fullscreen. When browsing the internet, pages loaded slow or sometimes gave me an error even when my connection bars were FULL and I was right next to the internet box. Youtube and ViKi videos would buffer too many times to enjoy and Mabinogi download estimated at about six hours. Sleep/hibernate and resuming use, you'd have to power off and on again... A friend suggested I update my drivers. I haven't messed around since I updated the drivers and installed 12 updates; we'll see tomorrow how that affects internet speed >__<;
  
  If this keeps happening, hopefully Best Buy will allow returns.. they were closing up when I bought it so even the rep there was rushing. Maybe I'll opt for an Asus as you suggested or a Dell? Or another HP?
  
  Selection wasn't that variant. xD; I heard 6 ram was good enough, more the better. I have no knowledge in graphic cards either. I do read Best Buy reviews butmost reviewers are either 5 starred or 1 starred
  
  How is a Dell- Inspiron 17.3" Laptop - 8GB Memory - 1TB Hard Drive- Black
  Model:*I17RSE-3589BK**•* SKU:*6697664?
  http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=6697664&pid=1218782849014
  
  I saw an Asus at Best Buy but I forgot the model of it. It was around 700-800 dollars.
• Evaris wrote on 2012-12-05 13:58
  It's alright, although there is no guarantee that it will be any better of an experience given it is also running W8, and Dell is not up to the quality levels of Asus or Lenovo.
  
  As far as RAM goes, you can never have enough, but 4GB is enough for most anything at this time, and 8GB is good enough for basic futureproofing for the normal life of a laptop PC. (4 years)
  
  I really wish manufacturers would put balanced DIMMs in their PCs though. the 6/10/12 GB arrangements are somewhat stupid.
  
  
  On another note, bestbuy is normally good about returns within 30 days. And I've been looking at other retail stores and that Asus I linked earlier is still the best deal I have seen out there right now.
• Kyouria wrote on 2012-12-05 16:12
  Yeah... I need to return it. Not only does it keep beeping for its low battery, I plug the charger in and it won't even charge LOL
  
  And the 12 updates failed to download and/or install overnight.
  
  That asus is really cheap for a laptop so I'm wary. Sometimes price reflects quality. My last one was around 900 when it first came out though it dropped since then. This HP envy was roughly 600~700$.
  
  I don't know :/ Maybe I ahould try out another brand like Sony, Dell, Toshiba or Asus. I'll go and look more while returning it but hope they do take it back. I said no to all the additional protection stuff like if I drop it or something.
  
  the laptops in stock had like three ranges. the 100-300, 600-700, and 900+ $ laptops. judging from reviews, everything has some kind of issue.
• Lan wrote on 2012-12-05 16:36
  If you don't like the Start Menu on Windows 8 you can always use Classic Shell :D
• Micho wrote on 2012-12-05 19:43

  Quote from Kyouria;992369:

  Yeah... I need to return it. Not only does it keep beeping for its low battery, I plug the charger in and it won't even charge LOL
  
  And the 12 updates failed to download and/or install overnight.
  
  That asus is really cheap for a laptop so I'm wary. Sometimes price reflects quality. My last one was around 900 when it first came out though it dropped since then. This HP envy was roughly 600~700$.
  
  I don't know :/ Maybe I ahould try out another brand like Sony, Dell, Toshiba or Asus. I'll go and look more while returning it but hope they do take it back. I said no to all the additional protection stuff like if I drop it or something.
  
  the laptops in stock had like three ranges. the 100-300, 600-700, and 900+ $ laptops. judging from reviews, everything has some kind of issue.

  
  
  Uh, I have the HP ENVY m6, and mine is just fine. . Don't know what issues you're having with it.
  
  As for the Windows Updates I had that problem but after some Googling I fixed it, uninstall all devices under the "Sound, video and game controllers tab" in Device Manager and start the Windows Update immediately, the drivers should reinstall themselves upon reboot. There's some issues with HP computers running on Windows 8 and Windows Update, so after that it should update and install smoothly.
  
  I have to admit though, the beeping when it's low battery always scares me so much. It's a little jump scare whenever it goes off. If it's not charging even if you plug it in the charger is probably broken, not the laptop's fault.
  
  Also how is your Skype fullscreen? Are you sure you just don't know how to use Windows 8? Because I know launching Skype on the Start menu will make it fullscreen but the Desktop part of Windows 8 is just like a desktop on Windows Vista/7. . .
  
  Anyway, this is my laptop, dunno if it's the same as yours: http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-envy-15-6-amd-a8-4500m-windows-8-laptop-m6-1164ca-black-m6-1164ca/10225904.aspx?path=2dfc37bd7cef5f9b936e14601bf7b6e3en02
• Evaris wrote on 2012-12-05 20:18

  Quote from Kyouria;992369:

  Yeah... I need to return it. Not only does it keep beeping for its low battery, I plug the charger in and it won't even charge LOL
  
  And the 12 updates failed to download and/or install overnight.
  
  That asus is really cheap for a laptop so I'm wary. Sometimes price reflects quality. My last one was around 900 when it first came out though it dropped since then. This HP envy was roughly 600~700$.
  
  I don't know :/ Maybe I ahould try out another brand like Sony, Dell, Toshiba or Asus. I'll go and look more while returning it but hope they do take it back. I said no to all the additional protection stuff like if I drop it or something.
  
  the laptops in stock had like three ranges. the 100-300, 600-700, and 900+ $ laptops. judging from reviews, everything has some kind of issue.

  
  
  Asus is one of the best brands out there. The main reason they're able to sell it for so cheap is Asus manufactures and assembles nearly everything themselves from bottom up in their PCs, so they don't need to pay extra for parts manufactured by other companies. The only problem there is with that laptop is it ships with only one SODIMM of RAM, so you might want to put in your own set of RAM, or at least add a 4GB SODIMM at DDR3-1333mhz, and Asus doesn't have great touchpads.
  
  The main reason I recommend that model is I'm not seeing many laptops with half-decent graphics available, but here are what have half-decent graphics. For the most part, they have the same level of graphics, though keep in mind AMD and Nvidia have better driver support for games. They'll be ranked from fastest --> slowest. (in terms of gaming.)
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+8GB+Memory+-+750GB+Hard+Drive+-+Silver/5622152.p?id=1218677496452&skuId=5622152#tab=specifications
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%22+IdeaPad+Notebook+-+6+GB+Memory+-+750+GB+Hard+Drive/6494535.p?id=1218737818591&skuId=6494535
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+14.1%22+Notebook+-+8+GB+Memory+-+750+GB+Hard+Drive/1304242813.p?id=mp1304242813&skuId=1304242813
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%22+IdeaPad+Notebook+-+6+GB+Memory+-+750+GB+Hard+Drive/1304924757.p?id=mp1304924757&skuId=1304924757
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba+-+Satellite+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+6GB+Memory+-+750GB+Hard+Drive+-+Ice+Blue/6927479.p?id=1218814313816&skuId=6927479
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%22+ThinkPad+Edge+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive/1305087925.p?id=mp1305087925&skuId=1305087925
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+IdeaPad+14%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+500GB+Hard+Drive/6963374.p?id=1218817527032&skuId=6963374
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+K+Series+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+500GB+Hard+Drive+-+Matte+Light+Indigo/6087209.p?id=1218717240847&skuId=6087209
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+IdeaPad+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+500GB+Hard+Drive/1304488778.p?id=mp1304488778&skuId=1304488778
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%22+ThinkPad+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/1304924849.p?id=mp1304924849&skuId=1304924849
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+IdeaPad+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+6GB+Memory+-+750GB+Hard+Drive/5599302.p?id=1218670779718&skuId=5599302
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%22+ThinkPad+Edge+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive/1304935913.p?id=mp1304935913&skuId=1304935913
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+K-Series+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+500GB+Hard+Drive+-+Mocha/6904618.p?id=1218814071056&skuId=6904618
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+14%22+ThinkPad+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/6574786.p?id=1218755569618&skuId=6574786
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+14%22+ThinkPad+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/1304924832.p?id=mp1304924832&skuId=1304924832
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+14%22+ThinkPad+Edge+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+500+GB+Hard+Drive+-+Matte+Black/1305087963.p?id=mp1305087963&skuId=1305087963