Thoughts on Family and Children

• Iljimae wrote on 2013-02-01 05:37
  I have some friends who want nothing more than to start a family, it would bring them the greatest happiness, while others want nothing to do with children. One thing I've noticed, however, is how peoples views differ in regards to having children setting aside the simple yes or no decision.
  
  For instance, some see having children as settling down, while others see it in a less restrictive light and as another thing to experience in life. Some even see it as the main aspect of their lives and view it as the center of their focus.
  
  Responsibility, career, experiences, self-creation, money, stability, relationships, love etc - a lot of variables to consider.
  
  So, I'm curious as to what others perspectives on this particular subject are. Also, the answer to this question: "How important is family to you?"
  
  
  I listed some interesting thoughts below in the spoiler on the subject from a book I read recently which, in short, was a compilation of conversations about various parts of life between an old man slowly dying from a disease and his former student who lost his way after leaving college. It's a non-fiction book written by the student and offers a perspective from someone accepting of death, in a way, that most of us who believe we are not immediately facing the possibility are not. The professor and the student recorded the conversations because the professor (who taught sociology) wanted to make his death one final experiment. A chance to give others insight into view points when you're facing death. In a way, he wanted to use his death to help guide people about how to live - that when you learn how to die, you learn how to live.
  
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]"This is part of what a family is about, not just love. It's knowing that your family will be there watching out for you. Nothing else will give you that. Not money. Not fame. Not work.”
  
  "There is no experience like having children...If you want the experience of having complete responsibility for another human being, and to learn to love and bond in the deepest way, then you should have children."
  
  “There's a big confusion in this country over what we want versus what we need. You need food, you want a chocolate sundae. You have to be honest with yourself. You don't need the latest sports car, you don't need the biggest house. The truth is, you don't get satisfaction from those things. You know what really gives you satisfaction?...Offering others what you have to give."
  
  “We've got a sort of brainwashing going on in our country. Do you know how they brainwash people? They repeat something over and over. And that's what we do in this country. Owning things is good. More money is good. More property is good. More commercialism is good. More is good. More is good. We repeat it--and have it repeated to us--over and over until nobody bothers to even think otherwise. The average person is so fogged up by all of this, he has no perspective on what's really important anymore.
  
  Wherever I went in my life, I met people wanting to gobble up something new. Gobble up a new car. Gobble up a new piece of property. Gobble up the latest toy. And then they wanted to tell you about it. 'Guess what I got? Guess what I got?'
  
  You know how I interpreted that? These were people so hungry for love that they were accepting substitutes. They were embracing material things and expecting a sort of hug back. But it never works. You can't substitute material things for love or for gentleness or for tenderness or for a sense of comradeship.
  
  Money is not a substitute for tenderness, and power is not a substitute for tenderness. I can tell you, as I'm sitting here dying, when you most need it, neither money nor power will give you the feeling you're looking for, no matter how much of them you have.”[/SPOILER]
• Tarvos wrote on 2013-02-01 05:58
  I always say I hate kids so much but the thought of having one... You know, it doesn't sound so bad actually. I hate other people's kid's, but I don't think I'd hate having my own. I sincerely enjoy helping my friends, and guiding them through hardships in their life, because we all have our problems. I think it might be a nice thing to watch over a son/daughter and be their guide.
  
  But then I remember how I'm a person who has a lot of ambition in my own hobbies and achievement. I think just having a wife I can lean on and be their to be leaned would be enough in life for me.
  
  However, I'm only 20, I've got a lot of time to think about this shit, and other problems to worry about now. Maybe my opinion will change with time. I don't know, but I know now I have no interest at all.
• SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-02-01 06:06
  In my family including the new Members we tend to Keep are family Together no matter what Happens We all love kids in My dads side mainly and we also love helping out members if theyre going through stuff as for meh i love kids and i love my family
• Micho wrote on 2013-02-01 06:11
  I want kids, I mean who doesn't? Kids are like the biggest joys in life, next to finding your soulmate, having kids is like the best feeling ever, sure there might be ups and downs just like everything in this world but having children is probably one of the most fulfilling things in this world I believe. Although I'm only 18, I really do wish for the nuclear family, well it won't be exactly a "nuclear family" seeing how I'm gay and all, but you get the picture.
  
  And how important is family? Family is there when nobody else is there for you. Family is the strongest pillars that will hold you up when you go throughout your life. That's what I think anyway.
• Lie wrote on 2013-02-01 06:21
  Have you ever wanted to see part of yourself forever fused together with the one person you love the most?
  
  And then want to take care of because of what that child represents to you?
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-02-01 06:36
  I don't want kids and will not want kids in the foreseeable future.
  
  Right now, I wish to make as much money as I can to be able to not have to make money anymore. The purpose of money to me isn't to buy fancy cars and such, although I certainly gain a lot of happiness from material things when I do buy them, but to not have to worry about anything, ever. To just be able to do what I want and live to the fullest extent at any time I desire. This is critical to me as I don't do "schedules" or "goals" (despite still chasing concepts, at least) and require a certain amount of spontaneity and freedom to be truly happy.
  
  Anything that gets me to that place is the route I'm taking.
  
  Family is really unimportant to me. I've always hated my family. Wanted nothing more to be left alone at all times since I was a young kid and I still do. The only thing I wish for in the long run is a partner, which may be considered family by some. I don't have much of an interest in getting married, either, but that's for legal and financial reasons. I still wish to hold that level of relationship, so I do pursue that stuff when I'm not distracted by other things.
  
  People who speak against materialism and selfishness would despise me. But the thing is, I'm fully aware of what I'm doing. I realize life is a game. I realize true happiness is found in other places. But I also realize it's more fun to ride a Kawasaki Ninja than a skateboard, and it's more enjoyable to sit around doing whatever you want than to force yourself to get up at 7AM for that soul stealing job everyone seems to have. I just view it as a realistic approach. As everyone is different and not everyone thinks similarly to me or gains pleasure from the same things, it might not work out so well for everyone and that's why it's definitely alright with me that most other people follow the more standard path. I will say, though, that most people seem unhappy with it and even worse, feel they have no option.
  
  And I'd like to add, I despise the idea of treating kids as an extension of oneself. If I ever had kids, I would treat them as completely differently people, hold no expectations that they live up to my name or whatever I've done, and frequently ask them, "what do you want to do today?", followed by doing my best to make sure that's possible. I would never expect anything financially from them, I would never expect them to do anything around the house, I would prepare college money if they wished for it even if I had to make a lot of sacrifices, and I would allow them to ask any question, no matter how difficult or inappropriate and answer it the best I can. If I couldn't come up with an answer, I would look for one. I believe everyone should be able to ask "Why?" to the people in charge and get a clear, reasonable, non-hostile answer that doesn't belittle the one asking or discourage further questions.
  
  And for fucks sake, I wouldn't have a bunch of kids.
  
  As soon as I did have kids, if I wanted to, I would accept this not as "another person in the family", but as someone for which I will set aside a lot of time, love, money and, frankly, freedom/experiences for. An individual, but still someone I'll take full responsibility for and expect nothing in return, not even a thank you. After all, it wasn't their choice, it was mine. Maybe I should be thankful they sit around in my house all day and put up with my shit. Can you see now why I don't want kids that badly? I would never burden them with such crap most people burden their kids with.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-02-01 07:02

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1023719:

  I don't want kids and will not want kids in the foreseeable future.
  
  Right now, I wish to make as much money as I can to be able to not have to make money anymore. The purpose of money to me isn't to buy fancy cars and such, although I certainly gain a lot of happiness from material things when I do buy them, but to not have to worry about anything, ever. To just be able to do what I want and live to the fullest extent at any time I desire. This is critical to me as I don't do "schedules" or "goals" (despite still chasing concepts, at least) and require a certain amount of spontaneity and freedom to be truly happy.
  
  Anything that gets me to that place is the route I'm taking.
  
  Family is really unimportant to me. I've always hated my family. Wanted nothing more to be left alone at all times since I was a young kid and I still do. The only thing I wish for in the long run is a partner, which may be considered family by some. I don't have much of an interest in getting married, either, but that's for legal and financial reasons. I still wish to hold that level of relationship, so I do pursue that stuff when I'm not distracted by other things.
  
  People who speak against materialism and selfishness would despise me. But the thing is, I'm fully aware of what I'm doing. I realize life is a game. I realize true happiness is found in other places. But I also realize it's more fun to ride a Kawasaki Ninja than a skateboard, and it's more enjoyable to sit around doing whatever you want than to force yourself to get up at 7AM for that soul stealing job everyone seems to have. I just view it as a realistic approach. As everyone is different and not everyone thinks similarly to me or gains pleasure from the same things, it might not work out so well for everyone and that's why it's definitely alright with me that most other people follow the more standard path. I will say, though, that most people seem unhappy with it and even worse, feel they have no option.
  
  And I'd like to add, I despise the idea of treating kids as an extension of oneself. If I ever had kids, I would treat them as completely differently people, hold no expectations that they live up to my name or whatever I've done, and frequently ask them, "what do you want to do today?", followed by doing my best to make sure that's possible. I would never expect anything financially from them, I would never expect them to do anything around the house, I would prepare college money if they wished for it even if I had to make a lot of sacrifices, and I would allow them to ask any question, no matter how difficult or inappropriate and answer it the best I can. If I couldn't come up with an answer, I would look for one. I believe everyone should be able to ask "Why?" to the people in charge and get a clear, reasonable, non-hostile answer that doesn't belittle the one asking or discourage further questions.
  
  And for fucks sake, I wouldn't have a bunch of kids.
  
  As soon as I did have kids, if I wanted to, I would accept this not as "another person in the family", but as someone for which I will set aside a lot of time, love, money and, frankly, freedom/experiences for. An individual, but still someone I'll take full responsibility for and expect nothing in return, not even a thank you. After all, it wasn't their choice, it was mine. Maybe I should be thankful they sit around in my house all day and put up with my shit. Can you see now why I don't want kids that badly? I would never burden them with such crap most people burden their kids with.

  
  
  Pretty much ditto this whole thing here.
  
  I LOVE children. Kids are adorable. They respect you. They want to be you. They're curious, so they ask questions. And with every answer, they grow as a person. I would love to have children one day.
  
  But they come with responsibility and restriction of freedom. Suddenly I end up with a huge list of things I must do that normally never had to. Things I cannot do any more that I would have had no problem doing before. This happens on a rather huge scale. Your entire life changes, and a lot of it becomes to accommodate for the child. Basically, your life ends up revolving around them.
  
  I hate responsibility. I can barely be responsible for myself. If I work, its so I can bank up the money in to a savings account so I don't have to work for as long as possible later. Work so I don't have to work? Sounds like me.
  
  Because I love children, I know I shouldn't have any. At least, not any time soon. I wouldn't be up for the task. Its for their own good. I like eating whenever/however I want. Going out wherever/whenever I want. Looking at porn freely. Keeping the apartment a mess. Making up my own sleeping schedule. Whatever.
  
  I'll get myself a cat next year and see how that goes first.
• Iljimae wrote on 2013-02-01 19:09
  Some really interesting responses so far.
  
  I forgot to add my own views when I typed that up last night.
  
  I do not see myself ever having children, it's not because I do not like children, but rather because of my goals and how I want to live most of my life that I feel I would be unfair to them. Being half way across the world away from your children, to help others, while they might understand when they reach a certain age and be accepting of it - I feel would be unfair.
  
  If I had children I would want to take responsibility for them, since doing so for my actions is very important to me. I also know what it's like to have a parent who does amazing things to help others, yet is not there for their child. While I was accepting of it and inspired by their actions - I never had a parental relationship with them. Rather than a parent they were someone more far away, the best way I can describe it is the way you would look at a role-model.
  
  Which leads me to some thoughts on family, for myself family is one of the most important things in my life, but that is family defined by my own interpretation. I don't see myself getting married and starting what people consider the stereotypical one, setting aside my views on children that already conflict with that, mainly because a lot of relationships where the stereotypical family stems from are based in possession over appreciation. I do not feel I could ever marry someone and start a family where possession rules over appreciation.
  
  I've noticed with relationships and marriage that often times rather than letting their partner live the life that they were previously going to lead before they came along, they want that person to make sacrifices so the relationship works. They want to be with them, even if that means the person sacrifices some of their previous goals. I am not speaking against this, but rather recognize it's a key aspect to making a relationship work, since as I stated already- a love and relationship based in appreciation is hard to find. It's often something you see with best friends, rather than those in a romantic partnership. This doesn't coincide with how I want to live my life, my values and my willingness to sacrifice what I'm hoping to accomplish. I'm not willing to become just another persons half in a relationship, often times that's what happens when people settle down. They become a wife and a mother - they have to give up a part of themselves to make the relationship, marriage and family work.
  
  Which leads me back to being unfair. I feel it would be extremely irresponsible of myself and unfair to enter a marriage or even a relationship where the person expects me to meet them halfway and I am unable to. I myself, am not interested in possessing someone in the sense of restricting their goals so that we can start a family. If I got married I would want the person I love to continue working towards their goals and to be able to watch them live as the person I fell in love with rather than restricting them, even if that meant I wouldn't always get to be around them. A part of me believes finding such an appreciative love in partnership might step into the realm of being too idealistic.
  
  I did say, however, that family is very important to me. But to me, my very close friends are my family. What restricts me from having children and settling down into a marriage to start a blood related family is that my goals, which I am not willing to give up, are tied with my unconditional love for the family I find myself surrounded by right now.
  
  I want to protect them and to help not only them but others as well, so that they will have the chance to take the opportunities I have chosen not to.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-02-01 19:30
  [Image: http://i.minus.com/iS3mSQIBjQwRS.png]

  
  
  This guy had ambitions until he settled down with a family.
  
  For many people, starting a family means giving up on your personal dreams. Some are very fortunate to have both. Very many however, are not as lucky.
  
  I don't ever want to give up my goals of gaining the power and ability to reconstruct universes as I see fit, so its a little difficult for me. But if its my side-dream of being a content producer, I can do that on my computer no matter where I go so I could probably do it while being settled down.
  
  One of the few things that you have to consider when you get married is the career path both of you take. If my wife gets hired by a big company 300 miles away, then I'll probably have to quit whatever job I'm working and go with her. Or it could be you who gets that big promotion and transfer, and your SO has to come with. Leaving their life, friends, job behind. [S]Or you could live separately, get sexually frustrated, and have an affair.[/S] Too much hentai.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-02-01 20:46
  the cat's master's parents weren't really good influences
  Financially set for life but they work just to have more.
  Have many friends for benefits but no close friends so they dont have to invite people over
  Judge their children based on relative's children out of pride
  
  The cat's master would love to raise one or two children (daughter preferably)
  And grant them many things her parents wont give.
  However, this is not really possible. Her career path won't have the available time for raising children who would be attached to her.
  The cat dislikes most children, but appreciate the thoughtful ones
• Iljimae wrote on 2013-02-01 21:06

  Quote from BobYoMeowMeow;1023964:

  the cat's master's parents weren't really good influences
  Financially set for life but they work just to have more.
  Have many friends for benefits but no close friends so they dont have to invite people over
  Judge their children based on relative's children out of pride
  

  
  
  This reminds me of something I came across not too long ago.
  
  [video=youtube;2L_cGjQSR80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L_cGjQSR80[/video]
  
  Also, for the curious - the book where I got the quotes from is titled "Tuesdays with Morrie". I highly recommend it to anyone really, no matter their views. It's a very easy read, enjoyable and offers a lot of food for thought, like the video above. Fast readers can probably finish the book in an hour or two.
• Cynic wrote on 2013-02-01 21:11
  Having to settle and compromise too much is one reason why I could never picture myself married to anybody. Family (which to me has nothing to do with blood, but also includes friends, lovers and of course, literal family. Basically whoever I love and trust deeply) is the most important thing to me, but I also don't like sharing. If I do settle down with somebody, I have to make sure that we have to compromise as little as possible. Especially with my kids. One of my worst fears is marrying an ass and having to share custody with them or something. If I have kids, then I expect them to either be mine, or mine and my partner's. Otherwise I'd rather have no kids at all if I have to worry about somebody else dictating their lives.
  
  It sounds terribly controlling/possessive of me, but eh. I've always suffered from a lack of control over most things in my life, so now control (the healthy kind, mind you) is vital for me. It's one reason why I've often considered having kids by myself if it takes too long to find a good partner to settle down with. The only problem is money, as I'd need to freeze my eggs, find a surrogate and sperm donor, etc etc. Especially since I won't be able to work in my field for a couple of years. I need to start and then finish school first.
  
  ..But yes. Family is extremely important to me. I'm not too worried about being tied down as I'm not a very out-going/adventurous person to begin with and don't really have much I want to accomplish besides 'get a shit-ton of money/make my loved ones happy', although like I said, it does depend. There are definitely a lot of things I refuse to compromise on.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-02-01 22:58

  Quote from Iljimae;1023975:

  This reminds me of something I came across not too long ago.
  
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"][video=youtube;2L_cGjQSR80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L_cGjQSR80[/video][/SPOILER]
  
  Also, for the curious - the book where I got the quotes from is titled "Tuesdays with Morrie". I highly recommend it to anyone really, no matter their views. It's a very easy read, enjoyable and offers a lot of food for thought, like the video above. Fast readers can probably finish the book in an hour or two.

  
  
  That video poses an absolutely wonderful concept which i've found to be poorly executed in reality. While it's possible to pursue your dreams, they won't always make you happy...especially if you never reach them. It's more important to pursue your own rational self-interest, in my opinion.
  
  Do not make the mistake of confusing altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others.
  
  It would be foolish of me to consider having children at this time. Any deserving parent would ensure that they could afford their children every amenity that this world has to offer--be it love or money.
• Iljimae wrote on 2013-02-02 00:30

  Quote from Kaeporo;1024031:

  That video poses an absolutely wonderful concept which i've found to be poorly executed in reality. While it's possible to pursue your dreams, they won't always make you happy...especially if you never reach them. It's more important to pursue your own rational self-interest, in my opinion.
  

  
  
  I thought the same when I saw the video. It is a wonderful concept pitfalls aside. My main reasoning for sharing the video is because I feel the questions "What do you desire?" and "What experiences will allow you to feel as though you lived an authentic life?" are very important. The pursuit of rational self-interest is an interesting topic and perhaps one all of us need to consider.
  
  Those of us sharing our opinions here for the most part seem to have a general idea of our goals and what we feel we want to get out of life. For many of us this excludes importance placed on family, marriage and children. However, this is not uncommon and for some leads to unhappiness. The realization at the end of their lives that they pursued something that lacks the meaning they were seeking, the warmth they hoped for, and the happiness from their dreams that they had let go of for something more rational, leads to emptiness.
  
  Over the course of their lives they start to do things, without even realizing what they're doing.
  
  To further this concept just for the sake of discussion, below is a short excerpt that demonstrates dreams versus rational self-interest - but also when rational self-interest without love and compassion leads to what I talked about above.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1W3Ea]

  
  
  
  Is the experience of children and family, which many of us have already chosen to set aside, one we should think about more carefully? The love, compassion and warmth, that many find themselves giving up unknowingly for what can be considered fulfilling self-interest, is it an experience that will haunt many when they are actually being accepting of death?
  
  If you were going to die two weeks from today, from that perspective, how would you have wanted to live your life? Is there any satisfaction at the end for those without a family, who only pursued rational self-interest, and who set their dreams aside but felt satisfaction throughout most of their life through their accomplishments?
  
  I do not feel there is any one answer to any of the questions I am asking. I'm curious about others perspectives when faced with such choices. After all, all of us here are already walking down different pathways.
  
  However, actively being self-aware of our choices and questioning our own actions leaves room for growth and a better chance to feel satisfaction throughout all parts of ones life, even at the end.
• Kaon wrote on 2013-02-02 03:25
  My thoughts on family are a bit vague, even to myself.. I suppose I'm still solidifying some of my ideas in that regard. I'm somewhat distant from my family, tho I live with them, and I don't feel any distinct need to get away from them. Really, I have no issues with any of them at all. Of course, I could make specific complaints, but nobody is perfect.. point being, I harbor no resentment towards them, I recognize the importance of them and being there for them when it's really important, and go out of my way to do so, but in basic interaction, I can't help but remain distant. Maybe I'm concerned about the effects on my daily life if I completely open up to the people I have to deal with daily?
  
  That aside, it feels like a separate issue when thinking about potential marriage, and a family of my own. Starting from the essential part of it, the marriage aspect.. I haven't put much thought into the marriage part itself, but I know for a fact I want a partner. That's probably one of the most important things to me. Someone I can love so entirely, and in a mutual way. Someone who'll be there.. but I don't really ever think about it in the conventional sense that marriage is imagined.. I do agree with the fact that it can be considered somewhat limiting; I feel like that about the stereotypical daily routine as well. What I want is that perfect soulmate, no matter how we interact.. someone to talk to about anything, connect with, encourage and be encouraged by. Someone who's constantly growing alongside you, while you both look forward to what new things you can learn about each other all along the way as you grow and change.
  
  I'm not in any rush for this tho, I feel like as long as I live my life to the fullest, I'll end up with the person I should be with.
  I suppose that leads into children.. I've thought more about the process of raising children than whether or not I want to have them, I suppose that could lead to the assumption that I really want them, but I'm not particularly set on the idea. I just enjoy the idea of really encouraging a young mind to grow and gain their own perspective on the world.. giving them every opportunity to understand things, showing them how to understand others.
  
  This of course isn't something limited to my own children, but it's not something I'd wanna go get a job doing lol.
  
  So essentially.. I'm not opposed to the settled down married life.. but I'd probably get bored. So I don't feel like whoever my match is would probably be the type to want that sort of settled down family. But I also don't think that's the only way to raise a family... but it is a fact that some sacrifices need to be made to make sure kids are properly cared for in every way they deserve.
  
  So I suppose I'm not in any rush for that, nor am I set on that idea. I guess I just have ideals on how I'd do it.
  
  ..so, most importantly, it comes down to my partner, my match. But it's hard to see who that would be for sure when I'm not really feeling particularly directed atm. The only thing I'm certain on, is the feeling involved. How we live and what we do is just part of the journey.. to be decided o3o.