Disarm and how it can help YOU

• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-02-05 19:07
  Assumptions
  
  50 rebirth
  500 max in the character window
  1 smash every 4 second (even though the cooldown is 3 we'll use 4)
  Full stats r1 for the paladin and DK
  DK will get the lowest STR roll
  Damage is always absolute maximum
  Critical hits will be ignored
  
  Calculations
  DK max attack gained from trans:48
  Paladin Max attack gained from trans:134
  DK and Paladin last 6 minutes
  Smashes per timed transed = 6*60/4 = 90 Smahes.
  Total damage done in trans DK 5*90*548 = 246600
  Total damage done in trans Paladin 5*90*634=285300
  Total damage done out of trans for a paladin in 6 minute 5*90*500= 225000
  
  At this point the paladin loses his/her trans and drops down to 500 max while the DK stays at 548. From here we shall extropolate a linear curve of damage per second and start each curve at the point trans was lost.
  
  The DK damage per 6 minutes stays the same so lets divide it by second to get DPS of the DK
  DK DPS = 246600/360 = 685 Damage per second
  Pally non trans DPS = 625 Damage persecond
  
  Not we have two curves the DK curve 385x+246600 and the Pally curve 625x+225000. Lets set the two equations equal and find the intersect.
  x=655 seconds or 10 minute and 55 seconds.
  
  Calculations With Crit
  Maximum crit damage done for transed DK = 246600 *2.5=616500
  Maximum crit damage done for Transed Pally = 285300*2.5=713250
  Average damage done in trans for DK = .7*noncrit+.3*crit = 357570
  Average damage done in trans for a paladin = .7*noncrit+.3*crit = 413685
  Maximum crit damage for untransed Pally = .7*noncrit+.3*crit = 562500
  
  Average DPS in trans DK = 357570/360 = 993.25 Damage per second
  Average DPS out of trans for Pally = (.7*noncrit+.3*crit)/360 = 906.25 Damage per second
  
  Time it takes for a DK to deal more damage is 644.69 seconds or 10 minutes and 44.69 seconds.
  
  Calculations with Titles
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/1Y07c]

  
  
  Conclusion
  Eventually even on a low strength roll if a DK stays in disarm long enough they will out DPS the paladin. Since these calculations were done without figuring crit it could go 2 ways, 1 the pally can crit 30% of the time in which case the gap is further widened. Or in the second case where the pally can't crit but the DK can due to the crit boost where the gap will be shortened.
  
  Another factor not counted in these numbers was combos, warriors can easily achieve a higher DPS by chaining skills and not just using smash. With this happening the gap will widen even more between a low rolled DK and a paladin.
  
  Another thing to remember is that you don't always roll low, if this were done with a medium roll DK instead of a low roll DK the time would be drastically shorter.
  
  Please if any of the math is wrong or you'd like me to add variables like critical hits and actual combos just give me the heads up and I will go and do it.
• Minatou wrote on 2013-02-05 19:30
  Ooo, nice thread lol. Always wondered about that and I always thought disarm was nice. The only thing that keeps me away from DK is the pot usage to stay in trans since you don't always have a healer lol. And also *stares at Trans could use an upgrade thread* :l dem conversations lead to nice things 8D.
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-02-05 19:34

  Quote from Minatou;1026447:

  Ooo, nice thread lol. Always wondered about that and I always thought disarm was nice. The only thing that keeps me away from DK is the pot usage to stay in trans since you don't always have a healer lol. And also *stares at Trans could use an upgrade thread* :l dem conversations lead to nice things 8D.

  
  
  I'm half tempted to recalculate it with r1 critical and 30% critical...I'd also very much like a more profound melee player to tell me a good combo that works and is repeatable so I can calculate that instead of smash spam.
  
  I could also do it with magspam on a low dex roll, or a mid dex roll for that matter.
• Minatou wrote on 2013-02-05 19:43

  Quote from JoeyDee9;1026450:

  I'm half tempted to recalculate it with r1 critical and 30% critical...I'd also very much like a more profound melee player to tell me a good combo that works and is repeatable so I can calculate that instead of smash spam.
  
  I could also do it with magspam on a low dex roll, or a mid dex roll for that matter.

  
  
  
  You probably should recalculate it with R1 Critical and 30% critical since with maxed out trans you should have R1 Critical. But, my only problem is whether or not the DK is in pot poisoning or not which causes a major WILL drop which attributes into the critical rate. If the crit rate of the DK is dropped then the overall crit rate discussion is rather useless because they're already at a disadvantage to the Paladin. I wouldn't recalculate it if the DK is in pot poisoning and smash spamming because crits will probably be rather rare in that case. The removal of the crit rate helps keep the pally and dk at an even ground rather than a 0 will DK compared to a normal maxed out pally. As for melee combos, I'm too lazy to explain what I even do with my melee...it just happens lol.
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-02-05 19:48
  Although, you don't have to be using potions to keep your disarm up. With clouds 3-5 keeps it up and a dedicated party healer keeps you at full HP. I'll go edit in a second calculations paragraph with crit damages later.
• Minatou wrote on 2013-02-05 19:51

  Quote from JoeyDee9;1026460:

  Although, you don't have to be using potions to keep your disarm up. With clouds 3-5 keeps it up and a dedicated party healer keeps you at full HP. I'll go edit in a second calculations paragraph with crit damages later.

  
  
  No, you don't need pots but the thing is you don't always have a party healer and not everyone buys 3-5 clouds. But, I am curious as to what the damage output would be with critical.
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-02-05 20:03
  Adding in a crit section assuming both paladin and DK always have 30% crit chance. Surprising enough the numbers differ from what I initially said, the time difference actually changes but almost 10 seconds (again under smash spam assumption) benefiting the DK.
• Anwell wrote on 2013-02-05 20:06

  Quote from Minatou;1026466:

  No, you don't need pots but the thing is you don't always have a party healer and not everyone buys 3-5 clouds. But, I am curious as to what the damage output would be with critical.

  
  
  

  Quote from Anwell;1026442:

  Also, with the hybrid skill "Research: Potion Addition" incoming, it more likely to sustain a disarm DK.
  
  Research: Potion Addition
  
  Required AP: 198
  Health +10
  Mana +10
  Stamina +10
  Luck +4
  
  Potion Poison Rate: -40%
  Potion Bonus Rate: 15%
  Potion Bonus: 250%
  
  http://mabination.com/threads/64907-Hybrid-skills-X-mas-cards/page8

  
  
  It helps a bit, but it won't negate the poisoning entirely.
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-02-05 20:51
  It was brought up on the official forums that if a paladin is using max damage titles he would regain them upon detransing. I quickly wrote up an excel spreadsheet for quicker calculation and upon adding in Bellfox+shock master title the time it would take for the DK to out damage the paladin is close to 20 minutes on a low strength roll.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-02-05 22:57
  I've compiled the offensive net worth of every transformation. You may find the following information to be of some use.
  
  tldr version:
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Champion Offensive Advantage:
  50% greater melee damage
  50% greater ranged damage
  Increases fighter damage
  38% greater puppetry damage
  
  Dark Knight Offensive Advantage:
  8% greater shooter damage
  ~22% greater magic damage
  Disarm State[/SPOILER]
  
  Paladin
  
  Average Melee Damage: 131 :pika_cute:
  Melee Damage (117-134)
  
  Average Ranged Damage: 128 :pika_cute:
  Ranged Damage (105-134)
  
  Average Fighter Damage: 50
  Fighter Damage (48-51)
  
  Average Puppetry Damage: 168 :pika_cute:
  Puppetry Damage: (134-177)
  
  Average Shooter Damage:
  Shooter Damage (-84)
  
  Critical: 5%
  
  Dark Knight
  
  Average Melee Damage: 87
  Activation rate: 30% Strength Bonus (360) Damage (120-144) Average Damage (139)
  Activation rate: 30% Strength Bonus (200) Damage (67-80) Average Damage (77)
  Activation rate: 30% Strength Bonus (120) Damage (40-48) Average Damage (46)
  
  Average Ranged Damage: 85
  Activation rate: 30% Dexterity Bonus (360) Damage (103-144) Average Damage (136)
  Activation rate: 30% Dexterity Bonus (200) Damage (57-80) Average Damage (75)
  Activation rate: 30% Dexterity Bonus (120) Damage (34-48) Average Damage (45)
  
  Average Fighter Damage: 0
  Fighter Damage (0-0)
  
  Average Puppetry Damage: 122
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Dexterity (360/200) Damage (112-160) Average Damage (150)
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Dexterity (360/120) Damage (96-137) Average Damage (129)
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Dexterity (200/120) Damage (64-91) Average Damage (86)
  
  Average Shooter Damage:
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Intelligence (360/200) Damage (-112) Average Damage ()
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Intelligence (360/120) Damage (-96) Average Damage ()
  Activation Rate: 30% Strength/Intelligence (200/120) Damage (-64) Average Damage ()
  
  
  Average Critical: 23%
  Activation rate: 30% Critical (36%)
  Activation rate: 30% Critical (20%)
  Activation rate: 30% Critical (12%)
  
  Falcon
  
  Average Melee Damage: 104
  Melee Damage (81-110)
  
  Average Ranged Damage: 102
  Ranged Damage (72-110)
  
  Average Fighter Damage: 92 :pika_cute:
  Fighter Damage (72-97)
  
  Average Puppetry Damage: 134
  Puppetry Damage (95-144)
  
  Average Shooter Damage: :pika_cute:
  Shooter Damage (-110)
  
  Critical: 38% :pika_cute:
  
  Beast
  
  Average Melee Damage: 94
  Melee Damage (79-98)
  
  Average Fighter Damage: 82
  Fighter Damage (69-85)
  
  Average Puppetry Damage: 124
  Puppetry Damage (92-132)
  
  Average Shooter Damage:
  Shooter Damage (-98)
  
  Critical: 32%
• radionoise wrote on 2013-02-05 23:12

  Quote from Kaeporo;1026592:

  
  Falcon
  
  Average Melee Damage: 100
  Melee Damage (80-106)
  
  Average Ranged Damage: 95
  Ranged Damage (53-106)

  
  
  Should be 110, not 106.
• Chihaya wrote on 2013-02-07 19:32
  I see what you're saying, Joey, but what about those times when you're suddenly knocked into deadly (like in Lord Missions or Boss battles)? If you're in disarm when that happens, you're immediately detransed, and provided that you have less than 50% of your health (from already being in disarm), you have a chance of getting killed.
  
  I guess Nimbus pets can save your butt after you detrans (from fully using disarm) and have essentially 0 HP, but for players without a fast/cheap recovery method, this will not work for them either.
  
  Good suggestion though :)
• Azareel wrote on 2013-02-07 22:01
  For those who have multiple Nimbus, you can use four and basically keep DK up forever with essentially zero potion cost. To tank hits and keep your HP as a timer to upkeep DK, just use Mana Shield.
• mageisfun wrote on 2013-02-08 01:53
  Paladin wins damage wise (for the 6 minutes they can be in trans), but dark knights can have infinite transformation (With 4 cloud pets, you can have infinite trans, disarm is -10 hp/sec 60*10=600. Cloud recovery=150 upon summon, and ofc 150*4=600.) So overall, we have the better damage output if you want to look at it as damage over time.
• truefire wrote on 2013-02-08 02:27

  Quote from Azareel;1028171:

  For those who have multiple Nimbus, you can use four and basically keep DK up forever with essentially zero potion cost. To tank hits and keep your HP as a timer to upkeep DK, just use Mana Shield.

  
  
  To ensure lag doesn't screw you over at any point, you'd actually need 5 nimbuses. 4 breaks even with disarm, but is subject to cutting it too close.