[KR TEST] Armor masteries and stat/skill rebalancing

• Zekkii wrote on 2013-03-21 19:18
  Chaincasting would be ridiculously overpowered as it is now (Mores type), and perhaps ridiculously expensive. I don't like the idea of a "one cheap fix" approach to magic, it needs a complete overhaul, even if some people don't like it. In any case, I hope we get skills resets in NA so I can at least choose to reset them if I want too.
  

  Quote from Mentosftw;1053351:

  And as for alchemy, I don't even want to talk about it.

  
  Hah, alchemy. It should have been presented as almost pure support if you ask me.
• Mentosftw wrote on 2013-03-21 19:24
  There's really only one solution, rework all the skills prior to the dynamic combat system (which in itself was a simple 'fix' for a new gameplay experience) except fighter to make them like the new skillsets or just make something entirely new. The problem with mmos is that you cannot release tiny fixes for balance and expect them to work. You need entire gigantic revamps but of course they're so risky they raise the issue of the playerbase ragequitting.
• Johny wrote on 2013-03-21 19:27

  Quote from Zekkii;1053370:

  Chaincasting would be ridiculously overpowered as it is now (Mores type), and perhaps ridiculously expensive. I don't like the idea of a "one cheap fix" approach to magic, it needs a complete overhaul, even if some people don't like it. In any case, I hope we get skills resets in NA so I can at least choose to reset them if I want too.
  
  

  
  
  Sometimes, cheap fixes is all DevCat can afford, considering they are in a time constraint. Right now they are testing this new formula to seek out flaws, and so far, there are a lot of them.
  
  If they can't get a yes from the test servers, they're going to have to scrap it and postpone any change until they come up with something new.
  
  Yes, More's version of Chain casting is overpowered, but then again, what isn't overpowered?
  
  Of course they are going to have to put limitations on the skill, but what it will be is for them to decide. Also considering the new chain cylinder will activate 100% of the time, I'm pretty sure they will go the same way with chain-casting, should they ever introduce it.
• NomadTrooper wrote on 2013-03-21 19:36
  Why would you want magic to be fast? Then it would play exactly like every other skill set. Its problem isn't speed, it's damage. Why can melee kill everything before magic is loaded? It's because monsters are to weak, they were not readjusted when combat was buffed, so they got left behind. There is no reason to charge up a nuke attack when everything dies from a gentle tap of the sword! To add on to this, all combat types deal the same damage as our current nuke class. Why bother with a nuke, if you can deal the same damage with normal melee? Magic needs a massive damage buff. If range can hit 10k's every 0.5 seconds and Fire Ball takes 20 seconds to charge, then Fire Ball should deal 400k damage in one hit, or mathematically it can't compete. Think this is insane? Well, Fire Ball was hitting 10k back when smashing 2k was amazing, but Fire Ball is still hitting 10k wile players are smashing 30k now.
  
  OT: this update looks bad as it is. I really hope they fix the charge stacking formula, or our long awaited buff has become a joke nerf.
• Prae wrote on 2013-03-21 19:54

  Quote from Johny;1053380:

  Sometimes, cheap fixes is all DevCat can afford, considering they are in a time constraint. Right now they are testing this new formula to seek out flaws, and so far, there are a lot of them.
  
  If they can't get a yes from the test servers, they're going to have to scrap it and postpone any change until they come up with something new.
  
  Yes, More's version of Chain casting is overpowered, but then again, what isn't overpowered?
  
  Of course they are going to have to put limitations on the skill, but what it will be is for them to decide. Also considering the new chain cylinder will activate 100% of the time, I'm pretty sure they will go the same way with chain-casting, should they ever introduce it.

  
  
  I thought that the chain cylinder skill was 100%, but had a "cooldown"? To me, it seems like a passive that can be activated (lolwut) every few seconds? If so, this could be the route that we take for chaincasting (AKA, you can be Mores every x seconds).
• Johny wrote on 2013-03-21 19:54

  Quote from NomadTrooper;1053384:

  Why would you want magic to be fast? Then it would play exactly like every other skill set. Its problem isn't speed, it's damage. Why can melee kill everything before magic is loaded? It's because monsters are to weak, they were not readjusted when combat was buffed, so they got left behind. There is no reason to charge up a nuke attack when everything dies from a gentle tap of the sword! To add on to this, all combat types deal the same damage as our current nuke class. Why bother with a nuke, if you can deal the same damage with normal melee? Magic needs a massive damage buff. If range can hit 10k's every 0.5 seconds and Fire Ball takes 20 seconds to charge, then Fire Ball should deal 400k damage in one hit, or mathematically it can't compete. Think this is insane? Well, Fire Ball was hitting 10k back when smashing 2k was amazing, but Fire Ball is still hitting 10k wile players are smashing 30k now.
  
  OT: this update looks bad as it is. I really hope they fix the charge stacking formula, or our long awaited buff has become a joke nerf.

  
  
  Good point. However, I don't think people would take too kindly that all of a sudden magic hits 9x higher than melee out of nowhere. Also even with super high damage, the physical skill sets are still faster and able to kill mobs 1st with those 30ks (which personally i haven't seen yet). So fundamentally speaking, yes speed is a factor when dealing damage in this game.
  
  I do agree with mobs needing a buff though, especially if prot is gonna get changed to a pseudo-logarithmic curve. Not only that, mobs need a redesign altogether, but that's a topic for later...
• Iyasenu wrote on 2013-03-21 20:04
  If prot's damage reduction is different...
  
  
  Does that mean that Cooking Dungeon monsters won't need to be hit with the special cooking knife to do some damage to them? :B
  
  Same with the Fomor Attack boss?
• Eliirae wrote on 2013-03-21 20:13

  Quote from NomadTrooper;1053384:

  Why would you want magic to be fast? Then it would play exactly like every other skill set. Its problem isn't speed, it's damage. Why can melee kill everything before magic is loaded? It's because monsters are to weak, they were not readjusted when combat was buffed, so they got left behind. There is no reason to charge up a nuke attack when everything dies from a gentle tap of the sword! To add on to this, all combat types deal the same damage as our current nuke class. Why bother with a nuke, if you can deal the same damage with normal melee? Magic needs a massive damage buff. If range can hit 10k's every 0.5 seconds and Fire Ball takes 20 seconds to charge, then Fire Ball should deal 400k damage in one hit, or mathematically it can't compete. Think this is insane? Well, Fire Ball was hitting 10k back when smashing 2k was amazing, but Fire Ball is still hitting 10k wile players are smashing 30k now.
  
  OT: this update looks bad as it is. I really hope they fix the charge stacking formula, or our long awaited buff has become a joke nerf.

  
  
  I hope you realize the issue isn't "monsters are weak" it's that magic does crap damage. Guess what happens if you give all monsters huge amounts of defense and HP? You aren't helping mages by letting them charge their spells, you're gimping them even more.
  
  In that situation, it wouldn't be "melee can kill enemies before mages can charge their spells" it would become "mage charges and casts their spell, barely does any damage to the monster because of it's insane HP, then the melee person kills it."
  
  Magic needs to be reworked. It isn't an issue of "enemies are too weak"
• Eliirae wrote on 2013-03-21 20:15
  Let's get mages to the point where they can actually be useful before we give enemies hundreds of thousands of HP and massive attack and defense stats.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-03-21 20:21

  Quote from Eliirae;1053403:

  Let's get mages to the point where they can actually be useful before we give enemies hundreds of thousands of HP and [UB]massive attack[/UB] and defense stats.

  
  
  Basic corrupt Alchlemists do 249 wind blast damage!
• Zeo wrote on 2013-03-21 20:30

  Quote from JoeyDee9;1053149:

  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Okie dokie. So I used the wiki's formula to see the differences compared the new one I derived from test. Wiki's formula accurately displayed my naked IS damage on NA and it's been on wiki for a while now so I imagine it's a trustworthy formula. Here are the differences.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/2lp9D]

  
  
  Edit: The damage constant for the old formula was not used as we are assuming no max damage enchants.[/SPOILER]

  
  
  Oh dear, like many others said... I hope this is a glitch because a nerf to most of the magic skills was NOT needed. It's only second day od the patch release on testing server so... I hope they'd rework the formula so that way the magic attack would count for each charge. (including the 6.5x damage multiplier for the full 5 charges on Ice spear and Hailstorm.)
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-03-21 20:49

  Quote from Zeo;1053411:

  Oh dear, like many others said... I hope this is a glitch because a nerf to most of the magic skills was NOT needed. It's only second day od the patch release on testing server so... I hope they'd rework the formula so that way the magic attack would count for each charge. (including the 6.5x damage multiplier for the full 5 charges on Ice spear and Hailstorm.)

  
  
  Assuming everything turns to 4 MATK (S5 Ice Crown 28% magic damage, 15 matk from enchants, 1000 INT)
  
  Wand damage = 28 * 4 MATK
  Special Upgrade = 17 * 4 MATK
  Enchants = 60 MATK
  1000 Int = 200 MATK
  Magic Masteer = 5 * 4 MATK
  
  Total = 460 MATK (+r1 Ice, Lv 20 IS damage) [No Rosemary, missing step 6, missing about 100 Int, missing 5 MATK from current enchants, no extra reforges]
  
  Constant * Base * Mastery * Charge Multiplier * (1 + MATK/100)
  0.9 * 340 * 1.15 * 6.5 * 5.6 = 12,809
  
  It's stronger. Right?
• Zeo wrote on 2013-03-21 21:03

  Quote from Zekkii;1053420:

  Assuming everything turns to 4 MATK (S5 Ice Crown 28% magic damage, 15 matk from enchants, 1000 INT)
  
  Wand damage = 28 * 4 MATK
  Special Upgrade = 17 * 4 MATK
  Enchants = 60 MATK
  1000 Int = 200 MATK
  Magic Masteer = 5 * 4 MATK
  
  Total = 460 MATK (+r1 Ice, Lv 20 IS damage) [No Rosemary, missing step 6, missing about 100 Int, missing 5 MATK from current enchants, no extra reforges]
  
  Constant * Base * Mastery * Charge Multiplier * (1 + MATK/100)
  0.9 * 340 * 1.15 * 6.5 * 5.6 = 12,809
  
  It's stronger. Right?

  
  
  Expect... you forgot that Magic attack only apply to the first charge of any magic skills. So... out of five charges you did... one of the charges will get magic attack applied to it while other four does not...
• Johny wrote on 2013-03-21 21:05

  Quote from Zekkii;1053420:

  Assuming everything turns to 4 MATK (S5 Ice Crown 28% magic damage, 15 matk from enchants, 1000 INT)
  
  Wand damage = 28 * 4 MATK
  Special Upgrade = 17 * 4 MATK
  Enchants = 60 MATK
  1000 Int = 200 MATK
  Magic Masteer = 5 * 4 MATK
  
  Total = 460 MATK (+r1 Ice, Lv 20 IS damage) [No Rosemary, missing step 6, missing about 100 Int, missing 5 MATK from current enchants, no extra reforges]
  
  Constant * Base * Mastery * Charge Multiplier * (1 + MATK/100)
  0.9 * 340 * 1.15 * 6.5 * 5.6 = 12,809
  
  It's stronger. Right?

  
  
  That actually seems weaker. I can do that damage with an s3 fully upgraded crown ice wand with NO reforge.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-03-21 21:13

  Quote from Zeo;1053426:

  Expect... you forgot that Magic attack only apply to the first charge of any magic skills. So... out of five charges you did... one of the charges will get magic attack applied to it while other four does not...

  
  
  So it's:
  
  [Constant * Base * Mastery * (1 + MATK/100) + Contant * Base * Mastery * (Charge Multiplier - 1)] 1.3 if full charge?
  
  That's just weird, makes me scared they're trying to make the full charges weaker so they can put in chain casting.