[KR Main] Mabinogi Zero Update

• Slayerj wrote on 2013-04-22 21:24
  Perfectio, dude, chill. Srsly.
  
  First off, a AP version of Adinel that hits like 20x as much as that shity waste of space? yes plz :l
  
  You talk of spamming bolts for -cool down on a 'low' cool down skill like bolts are utter trash. Fusion bolt brah. Get with the program. (now if only fire + anything fusion made the spell only take 1 second instead of 1.5 for fire =,= XD)
  
  I don't know any rangers or melee users that use 'normal attack' for any reason other than a second of stun to load smash or magnum or a chain skill. Bolt = mage normal. Fusion bolt = the better skill that does way more dmg and is actually useful. With this 1.5x buff to bolts once more, bolts them selves will be stronger and fusion bolt will be even stronger than before.
  
  Having -15% int magic cast time with you all the time is like having a perfect play rank 1 vivace on you all the time (well maybe not cus mines 16% but my normal 'good' is 14% and my normal is 12%...XD; ) and that already shaves off a few seconds to my spells.
  
  The only thing we're really missing from this update is a toggle +4 charge bolt skill for around 100-120ap that also adds a bit more dmg to the bolts too.
  
  And bro, why the fuck is everything DPS with you? DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPSDPSDPSDPSDPS, WHY. "I must kill everything as fast as possible or I'm not having fun :llllllllllllll" Go play another game then and get off mabi or pick something that is DPS and stop bitching that magic isn't DPS.
  
  Magic is DIFFERENT then melee and range and fighter and puppet. That's why I love this shit. It doesn't have the same feel to it as the other skill sets do. Playing on my giant with all three kinds of melee combat feels almost exactly the same as playing as my elf using puppets. It's boring as fuck. Playing as my mage after all that? Nice change of pace, something different and fun~
• Anwell wrote on 2013-04-22 21:41

  Quote from uoi100;1073265:

  so how much does a mage with 384 magic attack do with cc+4 firebolts? I don't know if this has been answered xD.

  
  
  I am also curious about this, there is a Hailstorm vs Bolts case study:
  
  http://mabination.com/threads/20401-Case-Study-Hailstorm-VS-Bolt-Fusion
  
  I was thinking that if CC+4 Firebolts can best the damage of Hailstorm now, how much can it do with Magical Weapon Mastery and the new magic attack formula.
  
  EDIT: Also has anyone tested the efficiency of Mana Crystalization yet? I rad it has gotten some kind of buff, but forgotten what it was.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-22 22:00

  Quote from Slayerj;1073272:

  Perfectio, dude, chill. Srsly.
  
  First off, a AP version of Adinel that hits like 20x as much as that shity waste of space? yes plz :l

  
  
  Lucky you, you have oodles of AP to throw around.
  
  u

  You talk of spamming bolts for -cool down on a 'low' cool down skill like bolts are utter trash. Fusion bolt brah. Get with the program. (now if only fire + anything fusion made the spell only take 1 second instead of 1.5 for fire =,= XD)
  

  
  
  Okay, I can do more over time with midgame anything than endgame bolts lol.
  
  

  I don't know any rangers or melee users that use 'normal attack' for any reason other than a second of stun to load smash or magnum or a chain skill. Bolt = mage normal. Fusion bolt = the better skill that does way more dmg and is actually useful. With this 1.5x buff to bolts once more, bolts them selves will be stronger and fusion bolt will be even stronger than before.
  

  
  
  Still slow and inefficient compared to everything else. Why bother when you can Focused Fist for the same damage?
  
  

  eaving -15% int magic cast time with you all the time is like having a perfect play rank 1 vivace on you all the time (well maybe not cus mines 16% but my normal 'good' is 14% and my normal is 12%...XD; ) and that already shaves off a few seconds to my spells.
  

  
  
  If only magic speed buffs compounded like physical damage buffs. Honestly if they hadn't murdered IS then it'd be good because 4-5 second IS would very good with current damage.
  
  

  
  And bro, why the fuck is everything DPS with you? DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPSDPSDPSDPSDPS, WHY. "I must kill everything as fast as possible or I'm not having fun :llllllllllllll" Go play another game then and get off mabi or pick something that is DPS and stop bitching that magic isn't DPS

  .
  
  Game balance equivalent of Godwin's law. You're bereft of arguments so you throw "fun" in my face. You know what's fun for me? Having a good character that does things efficiently and effectively. I like magic but I'm not fucking religiously wedded to it like you seem to be. I was hoping against hope I would have a reason not to wish for another reset event. And unlike you, I don't have oodles of AP or NX to paper over the weaknesses in a given skillset so I have to worry about shit like opportunity cost. But you can't even defend your position so you have to insult me. As is DPS wasn't the primary determinant of char effectiveness. As if fun was an objective measure - it's subjective. But since you can't argue an objective measure like efficiency, you fall back on "fun".
  
  If Magic was rebalanced to have reasonable AP costs, or the game was rebalanced so that physical DPS wasn't pure faceroll (my level 200ish giant is as strong as endgame C3 melee, just for more perspective), then I could get behind this. But it's not happening. Instead, physical skillsets are getting MORE cheapo damage and OP weapons.
  
  

  Magic is DIFFERENT then melee and range and fighter and puppet. That's why I love this shit. It doesn't have the same feel to it as the other skill sets do. Playing on my giant with all three kinds of melee combat feels almost exactly the same as playing as my elf using puppets. It's boring as fuck. Playing as my mage after all that? Nice change of pace, something different and fun~

  
  
  You sound like those people that pay 3x the price for a Mac because "it's different". I like the way magic plays too but I wouldn't tell someone it's worth the fucking huge AP costs.
• Anitun wrote on 2013-04-22 22:00
  Just curious, but what type of damage would I be expecting with a blaze on a non-combat wand 300 magic attack after the balance update?
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-04-22 22:04
  I never once said I have AP to throw around. Don't put words in my mouth thank you. :l Right now I don't even have over 300ap and I'm saving for gunner.
  
  I do agree that magic needs a AP cost change though.
  
  Magic speed buffs do compound, they don't simply stack on top of one another though.
  
  *flips table* Then just stop talking about magic and drop the damn skill set. If you're going to continue complaining about it, then everyone is just going to throw rocks at you for it. Also as it was said earlier, we're almost certain that fire bolt, IS, and hail got their full multiplier back and aren't gimped at 5x instead of 6.5x (let me go look that up just to be sure though.)
• SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-04-22 22:20
  So how good is range in the new update is it still really high dps?
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-22 22:26

  Quote from Slayerj;1073288:

  
  
  *flips table* Then just stop talking about magic and drop the damn skill set. If you're going to continue complaining about it, then everyone is just going to throw rocks at you for it. Also as it was said earlier, we're almost certain that fire bolt, IS, and hail got their full multiplier back and aren't gimped at 5x instead of 6.5x (let me go look that up just to be sure though.)

  
  
  IS got the 6.5x but the coefficient is so godawful it doesn't matter. Dexu was doing 8k crits with an endgame mage setup in test - in current they'd be doing 12-15k.
  
  And I'll stop talking about it when you stop gushing over it like they suddenly vaulted magic into the top tier.
  
  Honestly though, with an AP cost change then a lot of the issues become less relevant because at the least, you're not massively overspending in AP. If the AP costs were not absolute insanity, I'd honestly prefer to use magic again, especially seeing that there's little value in matk enchants (due to no 4x on them) so hybriding is actually viable.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-04-22 22:33

  Quote from SUNFLARE;1073294:

  So how good is range in the new update is it still really high dps?

  
  
  It doesn't effect range in the slightest.
• SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-04-22 22:38

  Quote from Zekkii;1073301:

  It doesn't effect range in the slightest.

  
  With new update range just get slightly higher damge like lance or we keep or reg damage like it is now?
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-04-22 22:41

  Quote from SUNFLARE;1073308:

  With new update range just get slightly higher damge like lance or we keep or reg damage like it is now?

  
  
  Lances only really get higher damage because of piercing changes. The lance counter damage is just bugged out.
  
  Range should stay the same for the most part.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-04-22 23:15
  I've essentially capped every "class" to exclude Combat Alchemy. I dislike the changes made to magic in this update.
  
  As of right now, my Hail Storm damage should drop from 28k to 8k...and it was already pretty lackluster even when it dealt 28k. Ice Spear will likely fair even worse.
  
  Meteor Storm has a 30 minute cooldown and the damage is still pretty lackluster, especially when you factor in the 10 second load time.
  
  Magic Weapon Mastery looks pretty decent, overall. The bolt damage bonus is nice but the INT magic speed reduction probably won't compound.
  
  Moving Casting's advantages are offset by its disadvantages. It's not a very good skill, all things considered. What's the point of running around while you cast spells? It's not like you can actually do anything while you move.
  
  Instant Cast should provide some excellent burst damage but it's still pretty situational. If anything, this turns the metagame against magic. I'll probably end up using the talents which are actually good and switch to a staff once every three minutes. That about sums up magic.
  
  The magic weapons added in the Drama update were better than these new skills.
  ---
  
  I've additionally heard that r1 Rain Casting no longer affects mobs.
• Johny wrote on 2013-04-23 00:34

  Quote from Perfectio;1073247:

  It also charges INSTANTLY. Why do you keep ignoring this?
  
  
  
  Crash Shot is no longer spammable, sure, but you can use OTHER skills while the skill is cooling down.
  Windmill in practice has more like a 1 second cooldown for the same reason Magnum has zero cooldown.
  
  
  
  That actually came before Genesis, mages were falling off before that, especially with pre-enchanted accessories and weapons. Also even NPC reforges and the possibility of ele 2 represented a significant power increase.
  
  
  
  And why not? Physical skillsets get free damage ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
  
  
  I mean, reforges, bone dragon chips, overture, new OP weapons, new OP skills, mechanics changes - even a gimmick skill like Transformation Mastery just ended up as another source of free STR.
  
  
  
  A viable compromise to the current instacast mess.
  
  
  
  You've been playing how long? Magic was quite arguably the best endgame class for several generations. Remember when Zyrus was the best and wealthiest player in Alexina, and possibly NA Mabi as a mage, because he could solo content most other players couldn't do as a party? Now, it was by no means easy, but you were rewarded for it. I started ranking magic not because it was quick, easy damage - but because magic offered the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
  
  
  
  If people were so amazed at magic, then why do you hardly see anyone, you know, using it? 90% of the playerbase fall into the physical skillsets and many of the long-time mages have quit for other skillsets. And you're essentially arguing that "Hey, it sucks but it impresses average players with flashy damage numbers so that makes up for it!"
  
  
  
  Again, if you're going to wax rhapsodic over how great spamming bolts to slightly lower IC cooldown, or doing 2x damage once every 3 mins or so, or a 530 AP version of Adinel is, then I have the right to tell you how wrong I think you are. After all, this is a discussion forum right? So if you don't wanna discuss the relative merits of magic with me, then don't talk about how fucking awesome it is to be slightly LESS comparatively bad because Devcat gave you some attention.
  
  And magic isn't "useless" per se - it's just a slower, less efficient, and way way way way more costly version of every fucking thing else.
  
  Now, if you don't have any actual refutations of my points, then can you please refrain from attacking me because you're out of arguments?

  
  
  Attacking huh? I don't even have my sleeves rolled up.
  
  But I am guessing your use of profanity means no disrespect towards me now, is that true? And here I thought Mabination was better than the Mabinogi NA Forums...I guess I was wrong.
  
  Either way, If you come to the conclusion that I'm no more pissed off about this update than you are, you are dead wrong. I do see it unfair that magic is getting shafted here and there for mere gimmicks. I do see it unfair that magic is losing players to more "advanced" skill sets, if you will, just because DevCat doesn't give rat's ass about magic. And I do see it unfair that people are turning on each other rather than opening their god-damned eyes and see the true culprit of it all; DevCat. (Excuse the profanity, but if Mr. Perfectio here can use it, then I assume I can use it as well).
  
  You are right, I have played mage long enough to know that magic was in fact in par with every other skill set in mabinogi. Sure, those were rough times, can't say magic had it's flaws, but it was a legitimate skill set nonetheless. Now DevCat has decided to spoon-feed the physical skillsets so much that their damage is over-inflated without much of nerfing skills here and there just like they did with magic. Magic didn't become weak, it got left behind!
  
  Am I truly happy that the skill-set I have invested in the last 5 years all of a sudden is inferior to everything else? No, but I put up with it. Am I happy that people no longer respect me just because I am a mage? No, but again, I put up with it. Am I happy DevCat has done nothing noteworthy to actually make magic effectively viable again? No and I despise them for it. Of all the enemies of magic, I see DevCat as the biggest foe of them all. They are the ones that have direct control over how to develop this game, and unfortunately for us, we have to live with the bullshit they give us. That's why I see the arrogance in the player's part as a disgusting display of ignorance. Be happy you are not coerced to be a mage in this game, and stop acting like you are the only victim here!! Shit, if that was the case, I would have quit this game a long time ago. I was one of the first to see this coming. I have submitted ticket after ticket on feedback on magic, to no avail, and I even tried to get other people to submit tickets on the topic of magic. Yet, nothing good ever came out of it. Two years later, and magic is still in the same sinkhole where everybody seems to have left it.
  
  So to all of those ranting your balls out here in a measly public forum, use those balls to protest DevCat if you feel so strongly about magic! Bashing magic here won't do us any good, even if this is a discussions thread. I doubt anyone here actually works for DevCat, so your arguments are only going to hit a solid wall. If you don't know Korean, get someone that does to submit a report to DevCat. If you don't believe our pleas will be heard, then go on making a fool of yourself ranting to a wall. People have always turned their heads whenever magic is mentioned in this game, and they will continue to do so as long as DevCat keeps spoon-feeding their favorite skill sets! At least, that is what I have learned.
• Royale wrote on 2013-04-23 01:16
  i am not a mage so this is purely based on watching other people, but i think the problem with magic is that while it does amazing aoe damage, it simply takes too long, i have somewhat similar experience as ranger where in dungeons or some shadow missions, everything is dead before i can get to 50% aim. there are just too many skills that gives less but instantaneous damage and alot of people just doesn't want to wait for a mage to charge up fireball or use ice spear or even wait for the thunder to strike anymore, so i think this update at least somewhat fixes that with mobile cast and instant cast, so mages can go into a room with fireball charge, cast it, and do it again instantly allowing them to do some decent damage in a short time. as for formula changes i am not very familiar with it but if it's a nerf then i am against it, it's always my belief that instad of nerfing players, a dev should always buff the game instead, since it will allows the game to be more challenging and everybody wins, whereas nerfing players will just lead to long term problems, see blaze, golem, crashshot.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-04-23 01:19
  Everyone needs to calm down and wait for the damage and other bugs in KR to be fixed before you start worrying about skill balance.
  
  They've had a really hard time after maintenance with char state rollbacks, item losses, dmg bugs, etc (you'd think someone from NA branch got transfered there). After the dust settles and adjustments are made we'll start seeing how the skill balancing worked out.
  
  Besides, no one here has any influence in devcat game development so just take it easy as there's no need to convince other ppl about what needs to be done with mabinogi. There's a "New weapon, skills, items, and tweaks you'd like to see!~" thread to propose changes and voice dissatisfaction with current game mechanics already.
• Johny wrote on 2013-04-23 01:31

  Quote from radionoise;1073429:

  Everyone needs to calm down and wait for the damage and other bugs in KR to be fixed before you start worrying about skill balance.
  
  They've had a really hard time after maintenance with char state rollbacks, item losses, dmg bugs, etc (you'd think someone from NA branch got transfered there). After the dust settles and adjustments are made we'll start seeing how the skill balancing worked out.
  
  Besides, no one here has any influence in devcat game development so just take it easy as there's no need to convince other ppl about what needs to be done with mabinogi. There's a "New weapon, skills, items, and tweaks you'd like to see!~" thread to propose changes and voice dissatisfaction with current game mechanics already.

  
  
  I'm just getting tired of the pessimistic replies is all. I hate jumping to conclusions based on what others have to say, but I also have experienced what DevCat has put me, and other mages alike, through. I'm not trying to arouse a revolt here, and heh, If magic is indeed as nerfed as people are making it out to be, then cest la vi. However, certain people are inclined to make a huge fuzz about information that might not even be accurate. That's what my argument has been all along. Of course, I know I was among the first to hyper-rant about this update, but I honestly thought ALL magic skills were getting nerfed at that time, which is totally wrong. All I want to do now peacefully await the fate of magic come g18. Whatever happens, it's for the best...I guess.