G13's effect on magic damamge.

• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-11 06:31
  So I did some quick calculations on the effects that the new G13 magic formulas will have on our magic damage.
  
  I ignored the effects of wand and enchants though and I only worked with max damage to make it a bit simpler. For Intermediate magic I used max damage of 5 charges since Fireball can only be fired with 5 charges and the multipliers for the other two changes with the number of charges. For bolt magic I used max damage for a single bolt, since it's unknown to me the exact effect of cc on Lightning bolt.
  
  I did make the assumption that Magic Bolt master adds 15% damage at r1, the wiki didn't have any information on how much it adds. I also worked with a 20% magic nerf to Intermediate magic. Here's the information I used to calculate the effect of int on magic.
  
  

  Mabinogi World Wiki
  
  The formula for extra damage based on Int is: 2×[log10( Int )]3. The rate of increase for damage per increase for Int at any Int may be calculated by 6×[log10(Int)]2/[(Int)×ln10].
  
  Examples:
  

  [Image: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1298/oldintdamage.jpg]

  
  
  
  

  
  
  • As of G9 the total damage for magic attacks uses a new formula.
    
    
    
    • The new formula is: (Base Magic Damage + Int Damage Bonus) * 1.1 = Magic Damage
      
    
    
    
  • The int formula will change again in G13.
    
    
    
    • The G13 damage formula raises intermediate magic damage by a percent defined as Magic_Damage * [1+(INT/2000)].
      
    • Simply put, all intermediate magic damage will be increased by 1% every 20 int.
      
    • Bolt spells will follow this formula: Base Magic Damage+[1+(INT/20)].
      
    • These effects compound with the G13 Masteries and the effects of certain wands. (I.e 1.2x damage from Int and 1.1x damage from mastery would be 1.32x damage)
      
    
    
    

  
  

  Intermediate Magic damage:
  

  [Image: http://iceblade.co.za/old/share/MP/Intmagicdmg.jpg]

  
  
  Bolt magic damage:
  

  [Image: http://iceblade.co.za/old/share/MP/Boltmagicdmg.JPG]

  
  
  If anyone want to go over my calculations or expand on them, then they can get the excel file here.
  
  Any relevant comments are welcome and discussion about these effects.
  
  Thanks
  
  Edit: New corrected Intermediate Magic damage calculations uploaded as well as rounding changed.
• Shirayuki wrote on 2010-08-11 06:38
  1000 int is pretty annoying to get though. 500 is still a challenge for a lot of NA mages.
• Iyasenu wrote on 2010-08-11 06:39
  So we should be fine if we get a ton of int and r1 masteries...
  ouch.
  
  seems kinda hurtful but at the end it's more damage potential...
  
  My base int is a bit over 400...
  getting base 500... yeargh i'd need r1 all magic skills i bet.
  
  
  even trans'd i cap around 780 or so...
  srsly
  masteries are needed to do better damage it seems.
  
  
  hey any info on how the magic damage will be affected by defense and prot?
  since the magic damage nowadays is guaranteed damage (barring elemental defenses and passive defenses.)
  
  
  also just noticed but in the spreadsheets you spelled "Diffrance" instead of "Diffrence"
  Is that like a "defence"/"defense" word as well?
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-11 06:49
  Your Excel codes are too advanced for me to understand.
  
  For Ice Spear
  1.1 * ( [ 6.5* ( Base + [ 2 * Log10(Int)^3 ] )
  gets me 2,342 damage for 250 Current / 2,396 for 400 Current, which is different from what you have.
  
  Also for the G13 rebalance, how did you factor the 20% damage nerf? Did you put that in last, or apply it to base damage only?
• Iyasenu wrote on 2010-08-11 06:53

  Quote from Justified;121047:

  Your Excel codes are too advanced for me to understand.
  
  For Ice Spear
  1.1 * ( [ 6.5* ( Base + [ 2 * Log10(Int)^3 ] )
  gets me 2,342 damage for 250 Current / 2,396 for 400 Current, which is different from what you have.
  
  Also for the G13 rebalance, how did you factor the 20% damage nerf? Did you put that in last, or apply it to base damage only?

  
  
  hey what's this part mean?
  is the nerf not a reduction of base damage?
  or is it a reduction of total damage after all int damage is added?
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-11 06:58

  Quote from Iyasenu;121051:

  hey what's this part mean?
  is the nerf not a reduction of base damage?
  or is it a reduction of total damage after all int damage is added?

  
  
  That's what I'm asking. I'm not one of those future content scavengers so I don't know how it works. I'm under the impression that the -20% is only for base damage, although I could be wrong.
  
  On a sidenote - Humans can have 568 Int at Level 1 / Age 17 if you max all Int skills to their current (G10) caps. +67 more if you level to 70/20, then +20-30 from title and some from enchants and you'll have around 650 untransed and over 1000 with a DK roll.
  But (unlike the formulas we have now) needing all that Int in G13, along with elemental masteries and such, is ridiculously AP intensive.
• Finnea wrote on 2010-08-11 06:59

  Quote from Iyasenu;121051:

  hey what's this part mean?
  is the nerf not a reduction of base damage?
  or is it a reduction of total damage after all int damage is added?

  
  
  I would also like to know that. I was assuming that the 20% nerf was off base damage. I might have read that somewhere as well, but I forget these days.
• Iyasenu wrote on 2010-08-11 07:02

  Quote from Justified;121055:

  That's what I'm asking. I'm not one of those future content scavengers so I don't know how it works. I'm under the impression that the -20% is only for base damage, although I could be wrong.
  
  On a sidenote - Humans can have 568 Int at Level 1 / Age 17 if you max all Int skills to their current (G10) caps. +67 more if you level to 70/20, then +20-30 from title and some from enchants and you'll have around 650 untransed and over 1000 with a DK roll.
  But (unlike the formulas we have now) needing all that Int in G13, along with elemental masteries and such, is ridiculously AP intensive.

  
  
  Ayayaya....
  I'm nowhere near all that base int...
  And also, yeah, all the int needed for comparatively higher damage in G13 is really AP-intensive. It'd take a very long time for someone like me to get those skills up, and for a new character it'd look incredibly daunting...
  
  But magic in Mabi is mostly about Skill Level isn't it?
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-11 07:59

  Quote from Iyasenu;121035:

  hey any info on how the magic damage will be affected by defense and prot?
  since the magic damage nowadays is guaranteed damage (barring elemental defenses and passive defenses.)
  
  
  also just noticed but in the spreadsheets you spelled "Diffrance" instead of "Diffrence"
  Is that like a "defence"/"defense" word as well?

  
  
  Since the Int damage isn't added last anymore I'd amuse they'd be subject to defense and prot. But it will probably be subject to the new Magic defense and not normal defense.
  
  Sorry I didn't run spell check, it's just a spelling error :fail:
  
  

  Quote from Justified;121047:

  Your Excel codes are too advanced for me to understand.
  
  For Ice Spear
  1.1 * ( [ 6.5* ( Base + [ 2 * Log10(Int)^3 ] )
  gets me 2,342 damage for 250 Current / 2,396 for 400 Current, which is different from what you have.
  
  Also for the G13 rebalance, how did you factor the 20% damage nerf? Did you put that in last, or apply it to base damage only?

  
  
  Wouldn't the formula for Ice Spear be 1.1 * ( [6.5*Base] + [ 2 * Log10(Int)^3 ] )? Since Int damage gets added last, even after Defense and Prot had been taken into account.
  
  I applied it to base damage yes.
  
  

  Quote from Iyasenu;121051:

  hey what's this part mean?
  is the nerf not a reduction of base damage?
  or is it a reduction of total damage after all int damage is added?

  
  
  From my understanding of the reduction is that it's to Base damage and not total.
  
  

  Quote from Justified;121055:

  That's what I'm asking. I'm not one of those future content scavengers so I don't know how it works. I'm under the impression that the -20% is only for base damage, although I could be wrong.
  
  On a sidenote - Humans can have 568 Int at Level 1 / Age 17 if you max all Int skills to their current (G10) caps. +67 more if you level to 70/20, then +20-30 from title and some from enchants and you'll have around 650 untransed and over 1000 with a DK roll.
  But (unlike the formulas we have now) needing all that Int in G13, along with elemental masteries and such, is ridiculously AP intensive.

  
  
  On a second Side note it would take 2415 Ap with current caps to max your Int. Including r1 Blacksmithing :(
  
  I'm sorry if I take long to respond, for some reason I'm not getting Email response to the thread :sigh:
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-11 08:19

  Quote from IceBlade;121124:

  Wouldn't the formula for Ice Spear be 1.1 * ( [6.5*Base] + [ 2 * Log10(Int)^3 ] )? Since Int damage gets added last, even after Defense and Prot had been taken into account.

  
  
  Using that formula, Int-damage would only occur once regardless of the number of charges. While I'm not exactly sure, I think Int-damage is per charge for Fireball/Ice Spear.
  
  I'm also curious how Thunder managed to tie Fireball with rF Element Mastery, but beat it with r1 Element Mastery when they're both +15% damage.
  3,363 + 15% = 4,184
  but you have 4,140 and 4,320 for Fireball and Thunder (1000Int - G13)
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-11 08:57

  Quote from Justified;121141:

  Using that formula, Int-damage would only occur once regardless of the number of charges. While I'm not exactly sure, I think Int-damage is per charge for Fireball/Ice Spear.
  
  I'm also curious how Thunder managed to tie Fireball with rF Element Mastery, but beat it with r1 Element Mastery when they're both +15% damage.
  3,363 + 15% = 4,184
  but you have 4,140 and 4,320 for Fireball and Thunder (1000Int - G13)

  
  
  You have a good point there. I'm not sure ether. And that' points out a flaw in my calculations since it would be added 5 times to Thunder (5 separate attacks) and not just once like in my calculations.
  
  The reason Thunder out damages Fireball is that Magic Lightning Mastery adds 20% damage at r1 where as Magic Fire Mastery and Magic Ice Mastery only adds 15% at r1.
  
  Edit: I was looking over the JP wiki and found this:
  
  

  1.1 times the damage compensation attribute Passhibudifensu go around . For example, hard Shadouuizado ♀ (37 defense 3 55 Lightning Protection ) -5% Int600 spell damage when fire Rank 1 Thunder 1 charge , the maximum damage ((500 * 0.95-55) * 0.63 +2 * log (600 ) ^ 3) * 1.5 * 1.1 * 0.67 = 339

  
  
  So it seems you're right Justified it seems the skill multiplier gets added after the Int bonus. I'll redo my calculations and upload them again.
• NewbieNub wrote on 2010-08-11 09:09
  Hmmm, so thunder turns out to be the ultimate damage dealing INT spell?
  
  Well, so much for Fireball..
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-11 09:26
  I uploaded the corrected calculations.
  
  It doesn't look good tough :(
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-11 09:39

  Quote from IceBlade;121168:

  The reason Thunder out damages Fireball is that Magic Lightning Mastery adds 20% damage at r1 where as Magic Fire Mastery and Magic Ice Mastery only adds 15% at r1.

  
  
  I could've sworn wiki said +15% for Lightning as well. /doublecheck fail
  devCat likes to cater to Lightning Magic too much (Metal Lightning Wands are the most common, Fire/Ice don't get a Dittes equivalent, higher damage enchant contribution)
  
  

  Quote from NewbieNub;121173:

  Hmmm, so thunder turns out to be the ultimate damage dealing INT spell?
  
  Well, so much for Fireball..

  
  
  Fireball will always have the splash radius and less chaotic impact (meaning timing isn't as hectic as Thunder). When you factor in speedcast upgrades, Fireball is slightly faster and has less of a damage penalty.
  Thunder's 5 hits is a double edged sword. It has more chances to crit, making it much more stable. However this means that defense is applied 5 times, and it's much harder to hit maximum damage (0.24% chance to get 5 crits, compared to Fireball's 30% chance for one crit).
  
  In other words, Fireball beats Thunder in lots of small ways that makes it better under certain situations.
  
  
  Regardless, with the new calculations it looks like we're paying 154 AP PER Intermediate Magic just to break even in trans (assuming 400 base Int - seems to be the average).
  Bolts are getting some nice boosts, but at the cost of 114 AP on top of that 154. On anything worthwhile, that +30 damage before defense/protection is still gonna be pretty useless...
  :fail2:
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-11 10:11

  Quote from Justified;121182:

  Fireball will always have the splash radius and less chaotic impact (meaning timing isn't as hectic as Thunder). When you factor in speedcast upgrades, Fireball is slightly faster and has less of a damage penalty.
  Thunder's 5 hits is a double edged sword. It has more chances to crit, making it much more stable. However this means that defense is applied 5 times, and it's much harder to hit maximum damage (0.24% chance to get 5 crits, compared to Fireball's 30% chance for one crit).
  
  In other words, Fireball beats Thunder in lots of small ways that makes it better under certain situations.

  
  
  Fireball also handles MD allot better, since you could use "Fireball Death" and not draw Aggro, where as Thunder draws instant Aggro from everything hit and they instantly rush to the caster. Not very safe :( Fireball can also hit more targets (Switch rooms) than Thunder (Max12 at r1).
  
  But I think Ice magic has the biggest disadvantaged with the new formulas.
  
  If you think about it, these Masteries and the Int formula actually introduce a form of a class system, since only a Mage or really end game Hybrid would rank all the masteries to r1 and have the 600+ Int needed.