Senator Warren Introduces the Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act

• Hanna wrote on 2013-05-10 21:05

  Quote from Claudia;1086012:

  
  
  ^ yes. I kinda hate how much people emphasize the idea of going into trades but IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE. UGH. PLEASE DON'T EVER TELL SOMEONE THEY SHOULD CONSIDER A TRADE INSTEAD UNLESS THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY WANT TO DO/KNOW THEY WANT TO DO A TRADE.
  
  

  
  Wat.
  
  Not everyone has the ability to go to college financially or academically.
  I'm not going to tell someone "Don't go to college, pick a trade" because that's fucking rude, but if someone doesn't know what they're going to do with their life yet, are dirt broke (and student loans are back and wallet breaking), and/or didn't have the grades to get into a good school (which DOES matter if you're planning on getting a job with the degree you're earning) I would gladly recommend trade school.
  
  All I'm trying to say is that you do NOT have to go to college to make a decent living and be successful, which is what people try to emphasis too often.
  Not going to college doesn't automatically mean you'll be flipping burgers and living in a trailer park.
  
  Also there is a nurse shortage especially since a majority of nurses are between the age of 40-55 (meaning they will retire soon) but I will agree that nurses are incredibly overworked, but that is because of the shortage.
• Claudia wrote on 2013-05-10 21:29
  I dunno, maybe it's because a lot of people seem to think that trade school is the magical answer to everything. so my bad on that part.
  
  I know and agree that not going to college does not mean you won't be successful, BUT.
  Although we have the Bill Gateses and Mark Zuckerbergs and Hannas of the world, not a lot of people who haven't attended college/dropped out aren't as financially successful as people who get a degree. This has been proven time and time again.
  
  It's true that financial success isn't necessarily the key to life, but watching my family struggle and work for years and years in jobs with low pay and no hope of moving up because they lack a degree, really frustrates me and is one of the biggest reasons why I'm going to college. Plus, there are plenty of jobs and fields that are expanding rapidly that you MUST have a degree for.
  
  tl;dr: you don't need college to be successful, but you have to be pretty goddamn motivated to do well without one. most people are not, and it's still hard either way.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-10 21:39

  Quote from Claudia;1086037:

  I dunno, maybe it's because a lot of people seem to think that trade school is the magical answer to everything. so my bad on that part.

  
  
  I've actually been in the complete opposite environment. Perhaps you're speaking from personal experience only?
  
  My personal experience has been that almost everyone believes you trade school is a waste of time, and college is the only answer for success. But to be frank, most people I know who are successful have never even gone to college.
  
  

  tl;dr: you don't need college to be successful, but you have to be pretty goddamn motivated to do well without one. most people are not, and it's still hard either way.

  
  
  The way I see it, it isn't that people go to college for a ticket to success, and those who don't go must be motivated to keep up... but rather there is more so a higher correlation of motivated people going to college to begin with.
  
  That said, those who don't go but try hard shouldn't have too much difficulty. It is a bit of an inconvenience, and not having a degree closes some doors, but you don't always need to take the "short-cut". Not everyone has the resources to do it.
  
  During my time in college, I used to vehemently think college is the most important part of a person's life. I can't believe how silly that was now. Such a huge waste of time and money.
  
  

  (also, if you take your loans before july they'll still be at 3.4% - do it now!!)

  
  
  Just want to point out that federal loans are pretty cheap, and banks like to brag about variable interests starting as low as 3%, but most will almost always set you off at around 7% or higher, even with good credit. It took me a very long time of searching before I could find a loan service willing to not go over 8% for me. Private student loans are a scam. Edit: I'm the sucker who fell for that scam.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-05-10 21:52
  Where the cat lives
  everyone is motivated for college.
  But in most cases, it doesn't really matter whether or not college helps because everyone is at least middle class in terms of income or have parents who work in the high positions of corporations
• Claudia wrote on 2013-05-10 21:54

  Quote from Ashikoki;1086043:

  I've actually been in the complete opposite environment. Perhaps you're speaking from personal experience only?
  
  My personal experience has been that almost everyone believes you trade school is a waste of time, and college is the only answer for success. But to be frank, most people I know who are successful have never even gone to college.

  
  
  See, this is where my viewpoints conflict. Nobody in my family has gone to college - immediate or extended. They've all done really well for themselves financially considering the lack of degree. It's almost inspirational, really. Unfortunately, it's come with so many sacrifices. One of my uncles is a trucker, while the other works in a food distribution center. The hours are awful, the work is hard and dangerous, and the pay is "meh" considering how they're never around. (Also, my family has a shitton of medical expenses that we really can't afford, but that's another story.)
  
  At the same time, in the town I live in now (affluent white upper-middle/upper-class suburb), everyone is expected to go to college. And not just the local Joe Schmo college, I'm talking Ivies, Top 25, prestigious in/out-of-state flagships, well-regarded private colleges. Grad school is the norm. Some of these people have terrifyingly awesome connections to MIT, Harvard, etc. The college matriculation rate for our high school class is >90% for a 4-year, like 4% for a two-year (not trade school; local CC), and 5% enlisting in the military. That's 99%-100%, folks.
  
  But I know that if I had never moved here, I'd be singing a different tune. I probably wouldn't be going to college where I am, at a respectable college in the city with a shitton of financial aid, or really any college at all. College is literally my ticket out of my family's shitty finances and into the city, where I can actually have a career and a life.
  
  
  

  Quote from Ashikoki;1086043:

  The way I see it, it isn't that people go to college for a ticket to success, and those who don't go must be motivated to keep up... but rather there is more so a higher correlation of motivated people going to college to begin with.
  
  That said, those who don't go but try hard shouldn't have too much difficulty. It is a bit of an inconvenience, and not having a degree closes some doors, but you don't always need to take the "short-cut". Not everyone has the resources to do it.
  
  During my time in college, I used to vehemently think college is the most important part of a person's life. I can't believe how silly that was now. Such a huge waste of time and money.

  
  
  I agree (although I cannot speak to your personal experience), but student loans are available. It's not ideal, and there are plenty of horror stories of people who are crushed by their debt even though they majored in a "marketable" field, but I see them as a worthwhile investment. The average person will make $1 million more than someone who doesn't have a degree. If you go to a 4-year in-state college, even in a state like CA or MA where it's expensive as holy hell, that's about $80k in debt (and let's say +$15k for interest, but still, less than $100k). That's a pretty decent return compared to playing the stock market.
  
  
  

  Quote from Ashikoki;1086043:

  Just want to point out that federal loans are pretty cheap, and banks like to brag about variable interests starting as low as 3%, but most will almost always set you off at around 7% or higher, even with good credit. It took me a very long time of searching before I could find a loan service willing to not go over 8% for me. Private student loans are a scam. Edit: I'm the sucker who fell for that scam.

  
  
  Pretty much this. I'm sticking to my federal loans, but some private ones if I have to.
  
  So basically, I'm heavily opinionated on this and possibly wear a pair of rose-colored glasses. College, like anything, is what you make of it and how you look at it. I know that I'm more optimistic than most people here but I sometimes forget that.
• Claudia wrote on 2013-05-10 21:54

  Quote from Ashikoki;1086043:

  I've actually been in the complete opposite environment. Perhaps you're speaking from personal experience only?
  
  My personal experience has been that almost everyone believes you trade school is a waste of time, and college is the only answer for success. But to be frank, most people I know who are successful have never even gone to college.

  
  
  See, this is where my viewpoints conflict. Nobody in my family has gone to college - immediate or extended. They've all done really well for themselves financially considering the lack of degree. It's almost inspirational, really. Unfortunately, it's come with so many sacrifices. One of my uncles is a trucker, while the other works in a food distribution center. The hours are awful, the work is hard and dangerous, and the pay is "meh" considering how they're never around. (Also, my family has a shitton of medical expenses that we really can't afford, but that's another story.)
  
  At the same time, in the town I live in now (affluent white upper-middle/upper-class suburb), everyone is expected to go to college. And not just the local Joe Schmo college, I'm talking Ivies, Top 25, prestigious in/out-of-state flagships, well-regarded private colleges. Grad school is the norm. Some of these people have terrifyingly awesome connections to MIT, Harvard, etc. The college matriculation rate for our high school class is >90% for a 4-year, like 4% for a two-year (not trade school; local CC), and 5% enlisting in the military. That's 99%-100%, folks.
  
  But I know that if I had never moved here, I'd be singing a different tune. I probably wouldn't be going to college where I am, at a respectable college in the city with a shitton of financial aid (merit and need). College is literally my ticket out of my family's shitty finances and into the city, where I can actually have a career and a life.
  
  
  

  Quote from Ashikoki;1086043The way I see it, it isn't that people go to college for a ticket to success, and those who don't go must be motivated to keep up... but rather there is more so a higher correlation of motivated people going to college to begin with.
  
  That said, those who don't go but try hard shouldn't have too much difficulty. It is a bit of an inconvenience, and not having a degree closes some doors, but you don't always need to take the "short-cut". Not everyone has the resources to do it.
  
  During my time in college, I used to vehemently think college is the most important part of a person's life. I can't believe how silly that was now. Such a huge waste of time and money.[/quote:

  
  
  I agree (although I cannot speak to your personal experience), but student loans are available. It's not ideal, and there are plenty of horror stories of people who are crushed by their debt even though they majored in a "marketable" field, but I see them as a worthwhile investment. The average person will make $1 million more than someone who doesn't have a degree. If you go to a 4-year in-state college, even in a state like CA or MA where it's expensive as holy hell, that's about $80k in debt (and let's say +$15k for interest, but still, less than $100k). That's a pretty decent return compared to playing the stock market.
  
  
  [QUOTE=Ashikoki;1086043]Just want to point out that federal loans are pretty cheap, and banks like to brag about variable interests starting as low as 3%, but most will almost always set you off at around 7% or higher, even with good credit. It took me a very long time of searching before I could find a loan service willing to not go over 8% for me. Private student loans are a scam. Edit: I'm the sucker who fell for that scam.

  
  
  Pretty much this. I'm sticking to my federal loans, but some private ones if I have to.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-10 22:06

  Quote from Claudia;1086055:

  At the same time, in the town I live in now (affluent white upper-middle/upper-class suburb), everyone is expected to go to college. And not just the local Joe Schmo college, I'm talking Ivies, Top 25, prestigious in/out-of-state flagships, well-regarded private colleges. Grad school is the norm. Some of these people have terrifyingly awesome connections to MIT, Harvard, etc. The college matriculation rate for our high school class is >90% for a 4-year, like 4% for a two-year (not trade school; local CC), and 5% enlisting in the military. That's 99%-100%, folks.

  
  
  Quite a privileged high school you went to there. Usually if even half the graduating class goes to college, the school is considered to be quite successful.
  
  When 99% of your graduates are continuing on to higher education, there must be a sickeningly high shortage of full-time employees for various jobs at the area you live in. Let me know where it is and I'll send some of my jobless friends over to live there.
  
  

  I agree (although I cannot speak to your personal experience), but student loans are available. It's not ideal, and there are plenty of horror stories of people who are crushed by their debt even though they majored in a "marketable" field, but I see them as a worthwhile investment. The average person will make $1 million more than someone who doesn't have a degree. If you go to a 4-year in-state college, even in a state like CA or MA where it's expensive as holy hell, that's about $80k in debt (and let's say +$15k for interest, but still, less than $100k). That's a pretty decent return compared to playing the stock market.

  
  
  One of my courses actually directly covered this and had us do quite a bit of research on it. The typical stereotype was that people who graduate from a 4-year university will earn an estimated million dollars more than someone who only graduates high school. We also factored in vocational schools in to the mix as well. It was actually quite ironic that a school would give you so many case studies where not going to a 4 year university was sometimes a better option.
  
  Its an investment, but one that sometimes doesn't work out. Going to college can be quite a huge risk too. But this really isn't about the technical details, its about life. Life has so many variables. If someone doesn't exactly know what they want to go to college for, or are unsure whether they feel comfortable with the idea, then pressuring them to take such a huge investment can be incredibly deadly for their financial future. Perhaps they want to wait a few years before making the decision, or maybe they just want to pursue a career without college.
  
  College is important, but personal assurance, certainty, and aspirations take much more priority. I really do wish I could have told this to my 18 year old self.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-05-10 22:12
  I went to college for two and half years and quit. I should've quit after my first year.
  
  Everything about it sucked and now I have to pay off my loans for the next 10 years. QQQQQQQQQ
  
  I wish I could've gone to a vocational school instead. Or just worked. Pretty much wasted 3 years of my life borrowing money.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-05-10 22:13
  I went to college for two and half years and quit. I should've quit after my first year.
  
  Everything about it sucked and now I have to pay off my loans for the next 10 years. QQQQQQQQQ
  
  I wish I could've gone to a vocational school instead. Or just worked. Pretty much wasted 3 years of my life borrowing money.
• Claudia wrote on 2013-05-10 22:15
  Seems like there aren't many job openings in Boston, really, unless you're into medical/tech/biotech/yada yada.
  
  (Also, the apartment vacancy rate is <.5%. Have fun finding a reasonably priced apartment on the subway. ;_;)
  
  And my schools smack of privilege, but at least we have 20% of the population come from the city/local base, so we actually see some racial diversity.
  
  It honestly wasn't until I started browsing Reddit that I realized there's more than one way to success besides a 4-year college. I've met and talked to so many people who haven't gone to college, have gone part-time, are going for the first time in their 20's, the list of circumstances go on and on...they forgot to teach us in school that having your parents pay for you to go to the local flagship isn't the only way to live a happy, successful life. I have literally only had one teacher (and this is why she's my favorite one) suggest community college to me/other students because it's a cheaper way to knock out gen eds, or if they're unsure of what they want to do.
• Claudia wrote on 2013-05-10 22:15
  Seems like there aren't many job openings in Boston, really, unless you're into medical/tech/biotech/yada yada.
  
  (Also, the apartment vacancy rate is <.5%. Have fun finding a reasonably priced apartment on the subway. ;_;)
  
  And my schools smack of privilege, but at least we have 20% of the population come from the city/local base, so we actually see some racial diversity.
  
  It honestly wasn't until I started browsing Reddit that I realized there's more than one way to success besides a 4-year college. I've met and talked to so many people who haven't gone to college, have gone part-time, are going for the first time in their 20's, the list of circumstances go on and on...they forgot to teach us in school that having your parents pay for you to go to the local flagship isn't the only way to live a happy, successful life. I have literally only had one teacher (and this is why she's my favorite one) suggest community college to me/other students because it's a cheaper way to knock out gen eds, or if they're unsure of what they want to do.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-05-10 22:23

  Quote from Claudia;1086075:

  It honestly wasn't until I started browsing Reddit that I realized there's more than one way to success besides a 4-year college. I've met and talked to so many people who haven't gone to college, have gone part-time, are going for the first time in their 20's, the list of circumstances go on and on...they forgot to teach us in school that having your parents pay for you to go to the local flagship isn't the only way to live a happy, successful life. I have literally only had one teacher (and this is why she's my favorite one) suggest community college to me/other students because it's a cheaper way to knock out gen eds, or if they're unsure of what they want to do.

  
  
  This really is an awful stereotype they're brainwashing the younger generation with nowadays.
  
  The key isn't "school" but more of a "do".
  
  As long as you're "doing", I think most people will be fine in the long run. You might face some difficulties, but like Ashikoki said, that's life. It might happen in college, it might happen in work, who knows what circumstances you could have.
  
  I do suggest taking advantage of opportunities. If you're getting aid, or your parents want to pay for your college, then graciously accept and go. But if you have to look in to loan options, think very carefully about what you want to do with your life. A brittle resolve can really backfire on you, and then you're faced with the crippling matter of saying to yourself "but I already invested so much..."
  
  Osayidan here is a pretty good example. I guess I haven't really accomplished anything, so I'm the "crippling matter" example.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2013-05-10 22:23

  Quote from Claudia;1086075:

  It honestly wasn't until I started browsing Reddit that I realized there's more than one way to success besides a 4-year college. I've met and talked to so many people who haven't gone to college, have gone part-time, are going for the first time in their 20's, the list of circumstances go on and on...they forgot to teach us in school that having your parents pay for you to go to the local flagship isn't the only way to live a happy, successful life. I have literally only had one teacher (and this is why she's my favorite one) suggest community college to me/other students because it's a cheaper way to knock out gen eds, or if they're unsure of what they want to do.

  
  
  This really is an awful stereotype they're brainwashing the younger generation with nowadays.
  
  The key isn't "school" but more of a "do".
  
  As long as you're "doing", I think most people will be fine in the long run. You might face some difficulties, but like Ashikoki said, that's life. It might happen in college, it might happen in work, who knows what circumstances you could have.
  
  I do suggest taking advantage of opportunities. If you're getting aid, or your parents want to pay for your college, then graciously accept and go. But if you have to look in to loan options, think very carefully about what you want to do with your life. A brittle resolve can really backfire on you, and then you're faced with the crippling matter of saying to yourself "but I already invested so much..."
  
  Osayidan here is a pretty good example. I guess I haven't really accomplished anything, so I'm the "crippling matter" example.
  
  I'm not trying to dissuade or scare anyone off of going to college. It certainly is the "optimal" option in a general sense. But I just find that people who preach pro-college often don't actually have much experience in the topic (ie, parents who never went to college, students who are about to go to college, students who are in college). I rarely hear these kind of things from graduates.
  
  My short answer to the topic is "College is good, go if you want, but force yourself to go if you're unsure. Don't be brainwashed by your parents and peers telling you its the only option for success. I seriously thought my life would be confined to mcdonalds if I didn't go to college because of how I was raised. I was so wrong."
• Hanna wrote on 2013-05-10 22:45
  My dad dropped out in 7th grade, my mom dropped out in her senior year of highschool to work, so I know what it's like to have nothing.
  Luckily my mom's side of the family is filthy rich (my aunt and uncle along with two of my cousins[S] are[/S] were millionaires [S]that lost a ton of money from a gambling addiction[/S]) and my aunt had custody of me and my sister until I was 6. After that I wasn't allowed to see my aunt and uncle until my late teens.
  I consider myself fortunate enough to be given a loan to start my own business, and I'll feel like an idiot but I'm giving all of that up in the fall to go to school to become a teacher. |:
  Not all about the money for me, I just don't want to live in poverty and do something I will enjoy.
• Hanna wrote on 2013-05-10 22:46
  My dad dropped out in 7th grade, my mom dropped out in her senior year of highschool to work, so I know what it's like to have nothing.
  Luckily my mom's side of the family is filthy rich (my aunt and uncle along with two of my cousins[S] are[/S] were millionaires [S]that lost a ton of money from a gambling addiction[/S]) and my aunt had custody of me and my sister until I was 6. After that I wasn't allowed to see my aunt and uncle until my late teens.
  I consider myself fortunate enough to be given a loan to start my own business, and I'll feel like an idiot but I'm giving all of that up in the fall to go to school to become a teacher. |:
  Not all about the money for me, I just don't want to live in poverty and do something I will enjoy.