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Claudia wrote on 2013-05-11 00:49
Quote from Cucurbita;1086085:
This really is an awful stereotype they're brainwashing the younger generation with nowadays.
The key isn't "school" but more of a "do".
As long as you're "doing", I think most people will be fine in the long run. You might face some difficulties, but like Ashikoki said, that's life. It might happen in college, it might happen in work, who knows what circumstances you could have.
I do suggest taking advantage of opportunities. If you're getting aid, or your parents want to pay for your college, then graciously accept and go. But if you have to look in to loan options, think very carefully about what you want to do with your life. A brittle resolve can really backfire on you, and then you're faced with the crippling matter of saying to yourself "but I already invested so much..."
Osayidan here is a pretty good example. I guess I haven't really accomplished anything, so I'm the "crippling matter" example.
I'm not trying to dissuade or scare anyone off of going to college. It certainly is the "optimal" option in a general sense. But I just find that people who preach pro-college often don't actually have much experience in the topic (ie, parents who never went to college, students who are about to go to college, students who are in college). I rarely hear these kind of things from graduates.
My short answer to the topic is "College is good, go if you want, but force yourself to go if you're unsure. Don't be brainwashed by your parents and peers telling you its the only option for success. I seriously thought my life would be confined to mcdonalds if I didn't go to college because of how I was raised. I was so wrong."
Definitely agree, but on whether college is worth it or not, meh. I made a point to ask all of my teachers throughout high school if it was worth it, and the answers I got were affirmative and obviously biased, but it was a change from what I was hearing before (or rather, what I wasn't).
The overall stigma of community college (at least, in the Northeast) needs to go away.
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Yoorah wrote on 2013-05-11 01:09
In most cases: If you're intellectually capable, you should at least go to college. It's affordable, so expenses are not a valid excuse. If you have the financial means, then go to university. It opens a lot of doors and allows you to reach your potential if you work hard enough, which would otherwise not be accessible to you.
It's true that in many cases you can make a decent living without going to college. But you can become so much more if you pursue higher education seriously. And it's not about making money. You can make a $300/hr or so as a prostitute, yet that doesn't change the fact that you will get no respect in society.
I know for a fact that I would not be able to get the job I have now if I had no degree.
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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-11 01:20
Quote from Yoorah;1086171:
It's affordable
A...are Canadian colleges cheap?
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Claudia wrote on 2013-05-11 01:27
Canadian colleges are way cheaper even for Americans. McGill is like $30k/yr tops for US internationals.
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BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-05-11 01:31
Quote from Ashikoki;1086180:
A...are Canadian colleges cheap?
Using UoToronto as an example, you'll graduate with a 5 figure debt
The only Canadian universities known well internationally are UoToronto and McGills
If anything, UoToronto produces a lot of graduate research
oh and Canadians pay more for books.
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Chockeh wrote on 2013-05-11 01:36
Quote from Ashikoki;1086180:
A...are Canadian colleges cheap?
I'm paying $160 per semester. Can't wait to be a technologist next year.
Edit: Then again, Montreal is a terrible example since our equivalent are Cegeps.
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Osayidan wrote on 2013-05-11 01:43
Can't speak for other areas of the world but over here so many people go to college and university and then have to move out because there's no jobs for their fields of study. Companies here want people who know what the hell they're doing, not people who spent the past 5+ years of their young adult life memorizing text books. We want people who focused on skills and went to do internships in areas relevant to their field. That framed diploma on your wall doesn't prove you can handle what will be thrown at you.
There's obvious exceptions such as jobs in the field of medicine, or research based jobs where you pretty much end up working for your university or organizations with close ties to your university.
Otherwise you either end up having to move away from here, or get a job that isn't in your field to pay off the debt you collected to get that degree you aren't using because you have to pay off your debt and have no experience in the field you spent the past 5 years studying for. It's a vicious cycle that a lot of people unfortunately can't escape.
I met someone I graduated highschool with a few months ago, he went all the way up to university studying astronomy. Now he drives a taxi because he couldn't get a job around here in his field, had no money to move out, and couldn't just save up money because he had loans to pay. It's a situation that's a lot more common than people think.
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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-11 01:43
Quote from Chockeh;1086188:
I'm paying $160 per semester. Can't wait to be a technologist next year.
Edit: Then again, Montreal is a terrible example since our equivalent are Cegeps.
In America... you're expected to pay about 10k a year, if you're going to a really cheap college. Most respected colleges run upward to 30~50k a year.
The difference seems quite... large.
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BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-05-11 01:47
Quote from Osayidan;1086190:
Can't speak for other areas of the world but over here so many people go to college and university and then have to move out because there's no jobs for their fields of study. Companies here want people who know what the hell they're doing, not people who spent the past 5+ years of their young adult life memorizing text books. We want people who focused on skills and went to do internships in areas relevant to their field. That framed diploma on your wall doesn't prove you can handle what will be thrown at you.
There's obvious exceptions such as jobs in the field of medicine, or research based jobs where you pretty much end up working for your university or organizations with close ties to your university.
Otherwise you either end up having to move away from here, or get a job that isn't in your field to pay off the debt you collected to get that degree you aren't using because you have to pay off your debt and have no experience in the field you spent the past 5 years studying for. It's a vicious cycle that a lot of people unfortunately can't escape.
I met someone I graduated highschool with a few months ago, he went all the way up to university studying astronomy. Now he drives a taxi because he couldn't get a job around here in his field, had no money to move out, and couldn't just save up money because he had loans to pay. It's a situation that's a lot more common than people think.
Astronomy...
hope you mean he has a PhD
because it's impossible to advance above research assistant if you do not have a PhD in the sciences.
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Chockeh wrote on 2013-05-11 01:48
Quote from Osayidan;1086190:
Can't speak for other areas of the world but over here so many people go to college and university and then have to move out because there's no jobs for their fields of study. Companies here want people who know what the hell they're doing, not people who spent the past 5+ years of their young adult life memorizing text books. We want people who focused on skills and went to do internships in areas relevant to their field. That framed diploma on your wall doesn't prove you can handle what will be thrown at you.
There's obvious exceptions such as jobs in the field of medicine, or research based jobs where you pretty much end up working for your university or organizations with close ties to your university.
Otherwise you either end up having to move away from here, or get a job that isn't in your field to pay off the debt you collected to get that degree you aren't using because you have to pay off your debt and have no experience in the field you spent the past 5 years studying for. It's a vicious cycle that a lot of people unfortunately can't escape.
I met someone I graduated highschool with a few months ago, he went all the way up to university studying astronomy. Now he drives a taxi because he couldn't get a job around here in his field, had no money to move out, and couldn't just save up money because he had loans to pay. It's a situation that's a lot more common than people think.
This is why I joined a career program, need that obligatory internship and specialized classes. I'm seriously thinking of working for three to five years before I go to University.
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Osayidan wrote on 2013-05-11 02:00
Quote from BobYoMeowMeow;1086193:
Astronomy...
hope you mean he has a PhD
because it's impossible to advance above research assistant if you do not have a PhD in the sciences.
Pretty sure, unless he's been doing nothing the past 5 years. There's just nothing for him to do here.
What he explained to me is he pretty much has 3 options:
1) working at a newly opened planetarium here to help with the content of the exhibits - rejected instantly for much older dudes with experience
2) research jobs that are not in the city - this is why he's a taxi driver because he can't afford to leave the city with his loans
3) teaching jobs at a level lower than his university classes - pays less than being a taxi driver
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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-11 02:09
Quote from BobYoMeowMeow;1086193:
hope you mean he has a PhD
I know a lot of people who have PhDs and are unemployed. I actually know a guy who has a PhD in architecture. Spent 10 years going to school and studying for it. He's just doing manual work at a church right now.
When you split unemployment rates, people with a masters degree have the highest rate of unemployment. High school graduates are actually doing fine.
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Cucurbita wrote on 2013-05-11 02:16
Quote from Chockeh;1086188:
I'm paying $160 per semester.
I almost can't believe it. Even at the very cheapest and lowest, a community college charges about a thousand dollars per semester here in America. My school's tuition was 6000 per semester, and then 3000 for boarding. It cost me 18000 dollars a year.
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Chockeh wrote on 2013-05-11 02:18
Quote from Ashikoki;1086206:
I know a lot of people who have PhDs and are unemployed. I actually know a guy who has a PhD in architecture. Spent 10 years going to school and studying for it. He's just doing manual work at a church right now.
When you split unemployment rates, people with a masters degree have the highest rate of unemployment. High school graduates are actually doing fine.
My step-sister is doing her doctorate and she's still stuck working as a researcher in McGill. :/
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Claudia wrote on 2013-05-11 02:21
I mean, I hate to be rude here, but your sister could be a hell of a lot fucking worse off than being a researcher at one of the best universities in Canada, never mind that you're complaining about paying $160 a semester in books.
Unless I'm missing some crucial part of the formula (where you pay like 90% of your income to taxes which we all know doesn't happen), that seems pretty damn good.