Is there really an upcoming meele nerf..?

• Milk wrote on 2013-08-04 04:30

  Quote from abc33kr;1131302:

  you get around 45% balance from 300dex?
  the only advantage human has over giant in balance is like 3% balance.

  
  
  Not even, humans won't be able to take full advantage of heavy armor after heavy armor mastery :/. Not unless they want to lost a crap ton of dex and defence piercing.
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 04:31

  Quote from abc33kr;1131302:

  you get around 45% balance from 300dex?
  the only advantage human has over giant in balance is like 3% balance.

  
  
  Incredible, lol. I thought it'd be closer to 20~25 balance for 300 dex.
  
  

  Quote from Milk;1131306:

  Not even, humans won't be able to take full advantage of heavy armor after heavy armor mastery :/. Not unless they want to lost a crap ton of dex and defence piercing.

  
  
  The dex loss worries me more than the defence piercing, since that only removes 1 damage per point.
• abc33kr wrote on 2013-08-04 04:35

  Quote from Syr;1131307:

  Incredible, lol. I thought it'd be closer to 20~25 balance for 300 dex.
  
  
  
  The dex loss worries me more than the defence piercing, since that only removes 1 damage per point.

  
  
  not too sure with the number, but all i know is that you cannot use balance as a disadvantage for giants.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-08-04 04:37
  Er, last I checked 500 dex was barely under 40% balance. To get the full 50% you need over 1200ish.
  
  This affects lances, mostly.
  
  Base grade KL has 7% balance. 40% (500 dex) + 7% (KL) + 15% (CM) makes it 62%... which is pretty bad.
  
  How to raise that number? use gacha KL for +10% balance, use +balance ES or use the fancy guard cylinder which grants +15% balance.
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 04:56

  Quote from radionoise;1131310:

  How to raise that number? use gacha KL for +10% balance, use +balance ES or use the fancy guard cylinder which grants +15% balance.

  
  
  This relates to giants, yes? xD
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-04 05:39

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131269:

  Giants get much better. Humans get marginally worse.
  
  That's about it.

  
  
  This is what I asked, and I don't see how any of the points brought up really answer this.
  
  Guard cylinder? I don't see how that's a buff. [S]If anything it's a nerf.[/S]
  
  Balance update? Again, I really don't see how that's a buff for giants and a nerf for humans.
  
  Heavy armor mastery? Err, okay.
  
  Shield Mastery? Okay, so you can tank more. Avoid getting hit in the first place and we're back to square 1.
  
  I still don't see how giants are getting buffed out the butt and humans are getting nerfed. I mean, i'd be happy if that was the case since more people might actually play giants, but I really don't see how it's happening. :x
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 06:05

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131338:

  This is what I asked, and I don't see how any of the points brought up really answer this.
  
  Guard cylinder? I don't see how that's a buff. [S]If anything it's a nerf.[/S]

  
  
  Giants can use Lances with Shields. Thus:
  

  Quote from radionoise;1131310:

  How to raise that number? use gacha KL for +10% balance, use +balance ES or use the fancy guard cylinder which grants +15% balance.

  
  
  

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131338:

  Balance update? Again, I really don't see how that's a buff for giants and a nerf for humans.
  
  Heavy armor mastery? Err, okay.
  
  Shield Mastery? Okay, so you can tank more. Avoid getting hit in the first place and we're back to square 1.
  
  I still don't see how giants are getting buffed out the butt and humans are getting nerfed. I mean, i'd be happy if that was the case since more people might actually play giants, but I really don't see how it's happening. :x

  
  
  Giants and Humans (and elves) are all hit with the same re-balance. They all take a blow to balance from dex, which I believe is what some people have been discussing for some time. Giants suffer lighter penalties from the new armor mastery, so that's why Giants are better off than humans when it comes to balance and dex. And elves can finally equip heavy armor at the cost of half their frickin' dex.
• Psy wrote on 2013-08-04 06:06
  I see how giants are getting buffed, but I don't see how humans are getting nerfed, aside from the dex penalty from heavy armors that doesn't really apply to melee specifically. I don't see why people are saying guard cylinder suck. They are boosted by shield mastery, give balance, give critical, give you access to another skill set without changing weapons, and the only real difference is that they give magic defense and magic protection instead of ordinary defense and protection.
  

  Quote from Syr;1131352:

  And elves can finally equip heavy armor at the cost of half their frickin' dex.

  
  Elves were always able to equip heavy armor, just with less of a selection of choices. As far as I know, no knew armors became equipable by elves in that new update. I'd rather not have Heavy Armor Mastery if it means -50% dex.
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 06:12

  Quote from Psy;1131353:

  I see how giants are getting buffed, but I don't see how humans are getting nerfed, aside from the dex penalty from heavy armors that doesn't really apply to melee specifically..

  
  
  I don't think "nerfing" is a good word to use here. I think the better way of putting it is, "Humans are more negatively affected by this heavy armor mastery skill than giants are, thus it seems like a nerf but it isn't". The dex penalty indirectly affects melee (and some other skillsets) because less dex is less balance, meaning your damage would be all over the place.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-04 06:12
  I had thought that the dexterity penalty associated with heavy armor mastery did not apply unless it was ranked.
• Psy wrote on 2013-08-04 06:17

  Quote from Syr;1131357:

  I don't think "nerfing" is a good word to use here. I think the better way of putting it is, "Humans are more negatively affected by this heavy armor mastery skill than giants are, thus it seems like a nerf but it isn't". The dex penalty indirectly affects melee (and some other skillsets) because less dex is less balance, meaning your damage would be all over the place.

  
  In my opinion, if it's a nerf to anything, it's a nerf to archery and a bit less so, to puppetry. Since they actually use dex for balance and not just balance or defense pierce.
  

  Quote from Zekkii;1131358:

  I had thought that the dexterity penalty associated with heavy armor mastery did not apply unless it was ranked.

  
  It applies at all ranks, even at novice, for all three races. Ranking it just lowers the penalty, not increases. Except for elves, we're fudged with 50% dex penalty regardless of rank.
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 06:19

  Quote from Psy;1131360:

  In my opinion, if it's a nerf to anything, it's a nerf to archery and a bit less so, to puppetry. Since they actually use dex for balance and not just balance or defense pierce.

  
  
  Actually, the context I was using it in was in relation to how humans appeared to be "nerfed" in comparison to giants when it came to the dex penalty and how it affects balance.
• Howhurl wrote on 2013-08-04 06:45
  ...can't see how giants are buffed in melee? heavy armor mastery gives def/prot out the butt, can wear 2 acc, no negation of fighter and only -10% dex which at endgame is like 60. Also, guard cylinder+lance gives more option when lance is not in range. enchanted reforged thames armor is gonna be so OP it's not event funny. 720% 2h giants smash, adding onto thames bonus is 828% smash.
  
  i don't think i need to say more
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-08-04 08:09
  Psy, where did you get your information from? Last I heard from mabi data you don't loose any dex untill rank F or E. (On game about, idk why I'm trusting this, it's labeled that rank F does nothing to your dex and rank E is where the -dex starts.)
  
  But really. Didn't someone prove a long while ago that balance is a joke with a few charts and data? (No I will not dig that up, no no no and no. 4am T,T)
  
  Not to mention the dex loss is fixed with... Light armor instead! Wana use heavy armor? Go for it, you get better def and prot and shit, so don't bitch about your dex.
  
  Giants can get over low balance easier just by ranking a few extra skills that anyone else could rank. Don't forget that humans and elves have easier access to a good bit more dex than giants anyway.
  
  15dex = 1 def piercing but not below (it was either 1 or 0). At 1500 dex you're looking at a small 100 extra damage. At around 400 you're looking at 26. It's not a mega life or death big deal.
  
  With the fact that magic crafting gives us a few new accessories, you could just slap on some low level balance or dex + enchants onto those. Two good max rolls is +6% balance, two fixed are 10% and a fair amount of luck. There are some better ones from other stuff you could get too I guess. You people already spit out hard as hell stuff to get like it's nothing so this shouldn't raise any eyebrows. :l...
  
  It's a tiny TINY 'nerf' if anything, while buffing you so you can sit there and take hits like a boss without needing mana shield. :l
• gundamweed wrote on 2013-08-04 09:12

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131338:

  This is what I asked, and I don't see how any of the points brought up really answer this.
  
  Guard cylinder? I don't see how that's a buff. [S]If anything it's a nerf.[/S]
  
  Balance update? Again, I really don't see how that's a buff for giants and a nerf for humans.
  
  Heavy armor mastery? Err, okay.
  
  Shield Mastery? Okay, so you can tank more. Avoid getting hit in the first place and we're back to square 1.
  
  I still don't see how giants are getting buffed out the butt and humans are getting nerfed. I mean, i'd be happy if that was the case since more people might actually play giants, but I really don't see how it's happening. :x

  
  
  
  
  Okay, a typical set up for a giant will be sword+shield. for humans, they either dual wield or use lances. and then there's armor mastery, understand what i'm about to say:
  
  A giant will not be so affected by changes in balance, becuase he still uses his two-handed sword+shield combo along with heavy armor, and the added benefit of using accessories. Many good two-handed swords feature good balance, and benefit from sword mastery and combat mastery. a gian't wont need as much dex as a human to obtain decent balance. due to heavy armor mastery's less severe loss of balance for giants, again, giants won't need to have as much dex or worry about balance as much as humans. He will be very tanky considering his shield and armor. I bet such a giant would be able to tank much much more than 3 hits from master bandits, don't you think? Avoiding being hit is of course the ideal, but shit always happens unexpectedly and lo and behold, you'll be hit, and hit during a time when you really didn't want to be hit. You'll wish you were tanky. A human will be discouarged from doing the same thing a giant is doing, because a one-handed sword with a shield isn't as good as with a two-handed sword, and if he were to wear armor, his balance would plummet.
  
  Now, as for lances....A human will have to deal with the heavy loss of balance on lances, and that's assuming he isn't wearing heavy armor. A giant? he'll feel the pain at first, but when the guard cylinder comes out, he'll be able to gain 15% balance right there with his lance. right off the bat, the giant will be better than the human in lance combat AND have the awesome benefits of heavy armor and a shield.
  
  
  Now, since a good portion of the human population loves beamswords, this is a nerf for them in the sense that said portion will only be able to achieve 50% balance given they had endgame dex levels, which most certainly won't be the case for at least 90% of beamsword-wielding humans. of course, they'll have 30 balance right off the bat given that they have sword and combat master at r1, but there's still a lot of balance missing. either humans will need to grind out dex or replace some of their damage enchants with balance enchants, the latter choice effectively lowering their damage and so being a nerf. Of course, there are other options besides beams, but since they're the most convenient and they're now being made less effective, it's a nerf.
  
  
  tl;dr- Giants get stronger and much much more tankier at no cost while humans are now forced to work harder.