Is there really an upcoming meele nerf..?

• wildk wrote on 2013-08-04 17:27

  Quote from Slayerj;1131491:

  I'm fairly certain they do stay. I'll have to watch a few more KR alch+gunner vids to be sure but I think I remember in the last one I watched, she was showing off how great the new food party buff skill was (by only showing it once :p... XD) and in the dungeon she used alch and gunner and more than a few times she'd switch to gunner then pull out her cylinder and guard cylinder and have all the things full from her time of using the skills. I'm going to go check this RIGHT now, but gona get this post out of the way first lol.

  
  
  Even if they do after you use it once you'll have to spend 1 minute to recharge anyway :P I should've said it the other way round my bad
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131490:

  Golden Time.

  
  
  olden time has like some 5 minute cooldown >.< not sure if worth it. If anyone plans to use wave alch skills at all they might as well equip dual cylinders in secondary slot which humans can do too.
• Azareel wrote on 2013-08-04 17:28

  Quote from Psy;1131353:

  Elves were always able to equip heavy armor, just with less of a selection of choices. As far as I know, no knew armors became equipable by elves in that new update. I'd rather not have Heavy Armor Mastery if it means -50% dex.

  
  
  Uh.
  I'm pretty sure the dex penalty only applies when wearing heavy armor.
  
  Also, believe it or not, there are elves who really don't give a damn about dex.
• Howhurl wrote on 2013-08-04 17:36
  sick of those mana shield plebians. after the update giants can tank better with hp instead of using mana. even a human with heavy armor on can negate wiz elite dmg to single digits
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-08-04 17:39

  Quote from Howhurl;1131498:

  sick of those mana shield plebians. after the update giants can tank better with hp instead of using mana. even a human with heavy armor on can negate wiz elite dmg to single digits

  
  
  Isn't mana shield nerfed after the update too to not take your def and protection into account when you get hit?
• gundamweed wrote on 2013-08-04 17:39

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131413:

  No, I can't.
  
  
  
  Mana shield. Don't get hit. Either suffices very well, and it's not a big deal.
  
  
  
  This buff isn't huge.
  
  
  
  This has nothing to do with melee.
  
  
  
  A)Giants can get more then 600 dex.
  B) This only really matters if you're also using puppets with heavy armor. That's not melee, and there are better things to support puppets then melee.
  C) Balance is a lolfactor.
  
  
  
  A) Get in range.
  B) Lance charge.
  C) Compared to lances, Alchemy is a nerf.
  
  
  
  You can already enchant and reforge thames armor now. Did you know you can also smith it for higher stats and dura? :o
  
  
  
  Again, you can also already do this now.
  
  
  
  Yes, because none of the stuff except for accessories is a buff. And accessories by themselves arn't a huge buff to giant melee *unless* you have max roll amnesia Fierce ribbons, which is less then 0.00001% of the population.
  
  But max roll Amnesia Fierce ribbons are a huge buff to anything. (Whatever the 10-13 max damage one is anyway.)
  
  So, please elaborate.
  
  
  
  I see nothing in your post that supports the notion of giants getting much stronger and that humans will be nerfed except for Heavy Armor Mastery.
  
  When I see huge buff, I expect to see the change between current and future alchemy.
  
  A few defence and protection? And you're *losing* balance?
  
  Please.

  
  
  It's not just a few defense and protection. It's -significant- amount of defense and protection. I mean, have you even seen the videos of people being beastly tanks without losing out on damage? I don't think you really understand what those new masteries really mean.
  
  After that update, I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing humans running around with heavy armor, let alone with a shield, not if consistent, respectable, and versatile damage is their goal. Whereas it's something much much more common amongst giants because they're not losing out in damage OR balance thanks to two-handed swords . Accessories too, after some gacha stout earthquake accessories have been within reasonable reach. I know I bought two for me for 200k in total. Boom, giants who previously wore only armor and want to go for an easy boost in strength will obtain 28 max damage just from being able to wear said accessories. That alone puts them on equal footing with humans who wore clothes, but now are much more tankier (a buff). Forget about mana shield,it'll be old and busted after the nerf, whereas tanking without mana shield will be the new hotness.
  
  Please, let me know if you've not been unaware this whole time so I can stop trying to spoonfeed you information and trying to change your view, because if you're still clueless as to why humans are effectively being nerfed and giants are being buffed, then I just don't have any more words for you.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-04 17:40

  Quote from Slayerj;1131501:

  Isn't mana shield nerfed after the update too to not take your def and protection into account when you get hit?

  
  
  Yes.
  
  In addition, if an enemy knocks you out of mana shield the remaining damage isn't reduced by either mana shield's efficiency or your defense/protection.
  
  Mana Shield is still superior to standard tanking (especially for Humans and Elves) but only in situations where defense and protection combined fail to reduce damage more than mana shield's efficiency. You also have to weigh Mana Shield's vulnerability to critical hits with its ability to ignore wounds.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2013-08-04 17:42
  I think with this balance update, I shall delay getting that Backbreaking/Difficult Enchant, since Elegant gives 10% balance.
• Kenero wrote on 2013-08-04 18:52
  Speaking of Nexon arguments:
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/3TFyW.png]

  
  I have seen the light, I must reform.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-04 19:22

  Quote from Kenero;1131531:

  Speaking of Nexon arguments:
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/3TFyW.png]

  
  I have seen the light, I must reform.

  
  
  I'm waiting for these updates to come out in NA.
  
  1. People are going to cry that guns are underpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  2. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  3. People are going to cry that melee got nerfed because NEXON made it difficult to hit maximum balance.
  4. People are going to cry that range got nerfe...oh wait, they already do.
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-08-04 19:24

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131538:

  I'm waiting for these updates to come out in NA.
  
  1. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  2. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  3. People are going to cry that melee got nerfed because NEXON made it difficult to hit maximum balance.
  4. People are going to cry that range got nerfe...oh wait, they already do.

  
  
  I...thought the balance update came with the first hero on down the road, not with guns?
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2013-08-04 19:30

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131538:

  I'm waiting for these updates to come out in NA.
  
  1. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  2. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  3. People are going to cry that melee got nerfed because NEXON made it difficult to hit maximum balance.
  4. People are going to cry that range got nerfe...oh wait, they already do.

  
  
  I like how people tend to blame Nexon for their own fallacies/failures/mistakes/etc. /sarcasm.
  
  Also you listed the same thing twice, is there some point I'm missing here?
• Milk wrote on 2013-08-04 20:20
  I think people are thinking too highly of balance. But that may just be the fact that I use fighter 80% of the time and no longer care for heavy armor at all though.
  
  But i still think that the dex lose for heavy armor is more than justified. I mean even though they lose some Dex and Balance from the DEX penalty the fact that you can use accessories gain a crap ton of defense passive ping and lower stun duration pretty much still have me convinced that Humans will see an over all damage increase at the end. Though yeah Giants were always OP so its k let them be more OP won't change anything In the end of the day. People will continue to use other classes over giants anyways.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-04 21:03

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131471:

  I didn't expect to see Nexon forums arguments on Mabination.

  
  
  Disagreeing with something is now a nexon forum argument? :L
  
  

  1. Lances will trump all forms of melee. Bonebreaker and Languhiris pierce 45% of protection, which is insane.

  
  
  Never said that they didn't. But humans can use lances too.
  
  

  2. Lances have terrible balance. Knights will have difficulty hitting the 80% cap, especially if they wear heavy armor. The guard cylinder offsets this vulnerability.

  
  
  9 balance from the lance + 15 balance from CM + 50 balance from dex (40 if you really want to argue not everyone will have enough dex to see it) = 64-74.
  
  This isn't a huge vulnerability. And as I said to some guildies earlier, if it's really a big deal then just slap sight as your prefix on armor. Around 5 max damage loss at max roll and you gain your balance back, no big deal.
  
  

  3. The guard cylinder grants immediate access to Shock, Life Drain, Wind Blast, and Sand Burst. Flame Burst and Water Cannon are also available but they suffer massive damage penalties.

  
  
  A) I don't see how this buffs giant melee. This isn't going to increase your melee damage.
  B) Assuming you're talking in general, one keypress or extra click is a huge deal. Enough to make giant melee "significantly better". Right?
  
  

  4. The guard cylinder grants faster access to Frozen-Wave and Shock-Wave, two excellent support tactics.

  
  
  See above.
  
  5. Heavy Armor Mastery and Shield Mastery bolster standard defense, which is generally superior to Mana Shield against the majority of enemies. Mana Shield use means that you're going to take a lot more critical damage. Heavy Armor Mastery also provides some passive defense.
  
  Again, I don't see how this is a buff to damage. If you're talking in general, then it's a buff, but it's not holycarpwtfhuge buff. And I don't see how this doesn't apply to humans as well.
  
  Unless shield mastery is gamebreaking. Which it isn't.
  
  

  6. Humans won't be able to utilize the Thames Set Effects in conjunction with Lances without suffering heavy dexterity (balance) penalties. As the advantage of Humans is their ability to hybrid effectively, this armor severely reduces your effectiveness with nearly every talent. Therefore, Humans might as well not use heavy armor at all.

  
  
  All I have to say to this is "Oh, my."
  
  We're talking melee. If you want to talk about hybridding with dex skills, lances arn't a good option to use with puppets (IMO). It'd be better to pair lances with fighter (And before someone says heavy armor kills your damage, it's not a buff to giants compared to what we have right now.), guns, magic, etc.
  
  

  Giants can fully appreciate Heavy Armor Mastery, Shield Mastery, Guard Cylinder Mastery, and a host of alchemy skills without having to switch their equipment around or suffering massive penalties from utilizing heavy armor or lances.

  
  
  I still snicker whenever this is seen as a valid argument.
  
  

  Relative to Giants, Humans are notably worse at melee. This update will widen that gap.

  
  
  I am not disagreeing with the bolded at all.
  
  I've always been an advocate of Giant Melee. Giants are better at melee. They get more strength, they have less penalties, and can use a shield with 2hs to get extra max from oblivion alteration.
  
  It's this i'm disagreeing with:
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131269:

  Giants get much better. Humans get marginally worse.
  
  That's about it.

  
  
  I'm not seeing how they get "much" better. Is this update tilted in the favour of giants melee-wise? Of course it is, and it's about time. Is it "much" better? Err, no.
  
  

  Quote from Howhurl;1131498:

  sick of those mana shield plebians. after the update giants can tank better with hp instead of using mana. even a human with heavy armor on can negate wiz elite dmg to single digits

  
  
  lol mana shield hate
  
  If you say this, then you can't use heavy armor as an excuse for giants being "much better".
  
  

  Quote from gundamweed;1131502:

  It's not just a few defense and protection. It's -significant- amount of defense and protection. I mean, have you even seen the videos of people being beastly tanks without losing out on damage? I don't think you really understand what those new masteries really mean.

  
  
  It doesn't matter if it gives you the equivalent of a current 70% protection. It's not increasing your damage, especially if you're getting smacked around.
  
  

  After that update, I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing humans running around with heavy armor, let alone with a shield, not if consistent, respectable, and versatile damage is their goal. Whereas it's something much much more common amongst giants because they're not losing out in damage OR balance thanks to two-handed swords . Accessories too, after some gacha stout earthquake accessories have been within reasonable reach. I know I bought two for me for 200k in total. Boom, giants who previously wore only armor and want to go for an easy boost in strength will obtain 28 max damage just from being able to wear said accessories. That alone puts them on equal footing with humans who wore clothes, but now are much more tankier (a buff). Forget about mana shield,it'll be old and busted after the nerf, whereas tanking without mana shield will be the new hotness.

  
  
  Mana shield hate for the sake of it, lel.
  
  

  Please, let me know if you've not been unaware this whole time so I can stop trying to spoonfeed you information and trying to change your view, because if you're still clueless as to why humans are effectively being nerfed and giants are being buffed, then I just don't have any more words for you.

  
  
  >Run out of things to say
  >quickly let's resort to ad hominem
  
  

  Quote from Milk;1131560:

  I think people are thinking too highly of balance. But that may just be the fact that I use fighter 80% of the time and no longer care for heavy armor at all though.
  
  But i still think that the dex lose for heavy armor is more than justified. I mean even though they lose some Dex and Balance from the DEX penalty the fact that you can use accessories gain a crap ton of defense passive ping and lower stun duration pretty much still have me convinced that Humans will see an over all damage increase at the end. Though yeah Giants were always OP so its k let them be more OP won't change anything In the end of the day. People will continue to use other classes over giants anyways.

  
  
  This is basically my thoughts.
• Psy wrote on 2013-08-04 21:25

  Quote from Slayerj;1131399:

  Psy, where did you get your information from? Last I heard from mabi data you don't loose any dex untill rank F or E. (On game about, idk why I'm trusting this, it's labeled that rank F does nothing to your dex and rank E is where the -dex starts.)

  
  Basic Data Mining does the trick, the penatly starts even at novice, not sure which post you're referencing, can you look for it later when you have time?
  

  Quote from Slayerj;1131501:

  Isn't mana shield nerfed after the update too to not take your def and protection into account when you get hit?

  
  Ya Mana Shield is nerfed, but it's still a whole lot better than lack therof. If you're not using your Mana, why waste it by not using it? People use arguments like "why would you rather take more damage lol", but it's not like you're taking more damage in your hp and if you're not using your mp than what's your point? It's just more scapegoats to tank with, mana shield isn't useless.
  
  You and kenero seem to be the only one being rational here, everyone else here is stuck in argumentous debates and getting nowhere, sorry, its just really annoying to try and read this. . .
• SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-08-04 21:42

  Quote from Kaeporo;1131538:

  I'm waiting for these updates to come out in NA.
  
  1. People are going to cry that guns are underpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  2. People are going to cry that guns are overpowered because they see someone rock with them.
  3. People are going to cry that melee got nerfed because NEXON made it difficult to hit maximum balance.
  4. People are going to cry that range got nerfe...oh wait, they already do.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Explain?