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Aubog007 wrote on 2010-08-22 16:50
Quote from Justified;133486:
Fast mobs aren't the problem with lowhp, the problem is heavy ranged/magic multi. Unless they're fast and have ping, like BSRs.
Regardless of speed, if mobs only have melee and no heavy stander, lowhp can handle it easily by spinning with a fast pet on cover duty.
On the other hand, heavy multi-aggro causes a huge problem for tank builds as well. It takes numerous ranked skills and very high end equipment to be able to handle multi-aggro on the level that would "decimate" lowhp.
Eh i don't normally use pet play that much... Still an unknown for me.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-22 17:00
I wanna get high defense/protection, but I always seem to have a lot more dmg/crit. xP
Personally, unless you play in a lagless cali connection place ish, you are almost bound to get hit.
Pet swipes can really help, but I'm finding that harder in rath missions since those python wizards have huge splash range.
So while in other dungeon, I don't care if my pets get hurt, but in rath missions, i have to be careful of my pet or I die from splash dmg. Yes, other pet swipe pros can pet control those missions easily, but casual players like me can't do it.
I want extra defense/protection for extra insurance, but I don't want hp cuz they don't go well with wm.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-08-22 17:22
Zyrus has an excellent tank build that utilizes mana shield in an almost frightening way.
Magic: Defense. The only useful magic enchants boost mana or enable mana reduction.
Alchemy: Defense + Offense. Obtain stamina/mana reduction and elemental damage enchants. Everything else should add to def/protection or critical.
Range: Offense. Namely, critical. Aim for 90/130 critical. Spend everything else on damage enchants.
Melée: Offense. Focus on damage enchants.
IMO
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Osayidan wrote on 2010-08-22 17:38
The best defense is a good offense.
If you can obliterate the enemy before they get a chance to do anything, you don't need defense at all.
When it comes to crazy multi, either they're weak enough to not do much damage anyways, allowing you to WM them and recover after you get knocked down, or they're too strong in which case there should be party members present.
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Taliya wrote on 2010-08-22 17:53
*sighs* It annoys me that people somehow think you can't do any damage if you equip for defense.
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Kazuni wrote on 2010-08-22 19:25
Quote from Taliya;133628:
*sighs* It annoys me that people somehow think you can't do any damage if you equip for defense.
You can do more damage if you don't.
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Justified wrote on 2010-08-22 23:44
Quote from Taliya;133628:
*sighs* It annoys me that people somehow think you can't do any damage if you equip for defense.
Quote from Kazuni;133685:
You can do more damage if you don't.
Exactly. You lose a ton of damage if you choose to go defensive. Heavy Armor is the weakest body equip available, with Clothing being the strongest (paired with Stout or Earthquake accessories). Darkness and Raven are both decent enchants, and both reduce defense. Most of the endgame 2H enchants subtract large amounts of HP. Using a shield is a huge reduction in damage as well.
Sure, magic isn't affected by enchants that much, meaning you can still do decent damage. But as said, that requires very high ranked skills and enchants along with massive pot consumption. It's not something you can just slap on and expect to shine.
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Taliya wrote on 2010-08-23 15:22
I out damage most people's smashes with an untamed destruction silver dustin sword that I have coupled with my Guardian General Vales Shield. My WM may not be as affective, but anyone with well over 400 HP shouldn't be resorting to lolWMspam to solve all their needs.
I'm not saying tanking is the way to go for everyone, but every party should try to have someone that can tank damage. I know I've stopped interacting with my current aggro sometimes just to assist/save a party member and laugh as I take a couple 1s to the face.
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Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-08-23 15:40
Lol as an elf my only defense is Barrier Spikes and Mana Shield ):
Anywho, I used to say the same thing, saying defense is absolutely useless. But Tailya can take 1s from just about anything, even in hard, and still nail 1.3k Smashes. Perhaps because there is more option as a giant using a two hander with a shield, but regardless, it's because of Tailya's massive defense he was able to save me more than countless occasions.
Most of this game is to keep the enemy away from you but everyone gets hit once or twice in occasion (and those hits hurt like hell around late game) and it's better to be prepared for it than anything.
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wolfram wrote on 2010-08-23 16:12
Mage with Defense is probably one of the strongest builds in the game. As there are very few enchants that actually boost magic damage, defense would be the way to go.
Melee, I believe if you can destroy the monsters fast enough, then defense is useless.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-23 16:54
Quote from Taliya;134648:
I out damage most people's smashes with an untamed destruction silver dustin sword that I have coupled with my Guardian General Vales Shield. My WM may not be as affective, but anyone with well over 400 HP shouldn't be resorting to lolWMspam to solve all their needs.
I'm not saying tanking is the way to go for everyone, but every party should try to have someone that can tank damage. I know I've stopped interacting with my current aggro sometimes just to assist/save a party member and laugh as I take a couple 1s to the face.
:/ thats for giants.
A human like me have to rely on damage.
But it is true that as you get more hp, tanking+smash is more reasonable than wming.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-08-23 17:30
Quote from abc33kr;134720:
:/ thats for giants.
A human like me have to rely on damage.
But it is true that as you get more hp, tanking+smash is more reasonable than wming.
Not to mention that Giants get to use 2hander with smash bonus while using a shield. lol
They can get both dmg and defense a lot easier than human, and even more easier than an elf.
Elves have very limited choices for defense compared to the other two races.
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Justified wrote on 2010-08-23 18:19
Quote from abc33kr;134720:
:/ thats for giants.
A human like me have to rely on damage.
But it is true that as you get more hp, tanking+smash is more reasonable than wming.
Yea, it's stupid to compare yourself to other people (@Taliya). What you should really be doing is comparing
how much more you could do if you geared for damage instead. Otherwise you're involving a wide variety of variables (levels, skills, money, etc) that pretty much voids any point you have.
And I do love Smash, but it's pretty much fact that Windmill will be much more efficient in many situations. Being able to deal full crit-piercing damage to multiple targets has many more uses than non-crit piercing smash with reduced splash damage. Windmill invincibility is a pretty strong survival mechanism in the hands of a good micro-manager, so it's not like defense is the only way to live through hell.
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Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-08-23 18:26
Quote from EndlessDreams;134766:
Elves have very limited choices for defense compared to the other two races.
MANA TANK LIKE A CHAMP! qq
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Taliya wrote on 2010-08-23 22:57
Quote from Justified;134853:
Yea, it's stupid to compare yourself to other people (@Taliya). What you should really be doing is comparing how much more you could do if you geared for damage instead. Otherwise you're involving a wide variety of variables (levels, skills, money, etc) that pretty much voids any point you have.
And I do love Smash, but it's pretty much fact that Windmill will be much more efficient in many situations. Being able to deal full crit-piercing damage to multiple targets has many more uses than non-crit piercing smash with reduced splash damage. Windmill invincibility is a pretty strong survival mechanism in the hands of a good micro-manager, so it's not like defense is the only way to live through hell.
I guess if you enjoy losing 40hp per spin (I don't use any +hp enchants or titles for the record) and getting pot poisoned to hell. Honestly, even if I got +40 damage. I bet I still couldn't 1-hit a hard shadow mob. So what's the point then if I still have to hit them the same number of times?
Don't bother arguing bosses cause I just usually trans and bust out the lol swing of win. :P