Dmg vs. Defense

• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-23 23:01

  Quote from Taliya;135166:

  I guess if you enjoy losing 40hp per spin (I don't use any +hp enchants or titles for the record) and getting pot poisoned to hell. Honestly, even if I got +40 damage. I bet I still couldn't 1-hit a hard shadow mob. So what's the point then if I still have to hit them the same number of times?
  
  Don't bother arguing bosses cause I just usually trans and bust out the lol swing of win. :P

  
  
  No one enjoy losing 40hp per spin, hell sometimes I don't wm cuz I don't like the -28 hp per spin.
  
  But the reason most warriors go for dmg enchant rather than defense is because they are humans. They can't really put out meele dmg and tank at the same time.
• Karmel wrote on 2010-08-23 23:30

  Quote from Scontro;133210:

  I think anyone would sacrifice defense for dmg if the person has a playing style in which he/she doesn't get hit very often. Besides the little defense given through enchants is barely noticeable in hard Dungeons/Shadow missions.

  
  
  typical noivce statment hurr derp big numbers are gewd, how good are then when the big numbers are on you ?
• Arsik wrote on 2010-08-23 23:41

  Quote from Karmel;135194:

  typical noivce statment hurr derp big numbers are gewd, how good are then when the big numbers are on you ?

  
  
  But what good does 2 or 3 defense do when you do get hit by those big numbers? I could either add a few points to my damage, use a skill that multiplies that, and get an even bigger number. I add a few points to defense, I get hit by a 300 damage attack, and that attack's damage drops from 300 to 298, meaning I'm still hurting.
  
  If the defense stat played a bigger role, then I could see why some people would go for defense enchants, but until the defense stat gets revamped, enchants that add to it are completely useless. Enchants that add to defense are only good if you fight monsters that hit less than 100 damage, and with your comment where you're insulting him, you're making it seem like he's fighting monsters that deal way more than 100, so defense is useless and protection should be more preferable. So if anything, your statement is a more typical novice statement, since you just made yourself appear to not know how defense in this game works.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-24 00:01
  I am pretty sure when we mean defense on this forum, we mean defense/protection. It is pretty annoying writing out protection too, so unless someone can get us an acronym, defense=defense/protection.
  
  Let's get this clear, giant gameplay and human gameplay are two different things. With giants defensive build is more feasible than with human.
• Karmel wrote on 2010-08-24 00:47
  def on humans work too, this games main purpose is not to show off high damage, you can do as much damage as you like but that dosent make you a good player. i keep my damage low and def high and im far better then most users. also im over 2500 and been playing sence beta, i know how everything works
• Phanterz wrote on 2010-08-24 00:48

  Quote from abc33kr;135221:

  I am pretty sure when we mean defense on this forum, we mean defense/protection. It is pretty annoying writing out protection too, so unless someone can get us an acronym, defense=defense/protection.
  
  Let's get this clear, giant gameplay and human gameplay are two different things. With giants defensive build is more feasible than with human.

  
  
  I have you an acronym! Defense, protection = DP. lol
  
  It just depends how much defense/damage you already have, and what you're fighting... Normally, damage > defense,
  but for example if you can reduce 20 damage to 1, you're better off with defense, if you fight stuff doing 150+ damage, screw defense. Don't get hit.
  
  imo
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-24 01:32

  Quote from Phanterz;135290:

  I have you an acronym! Defense, protection = DP. lol
  
  It just depends how much defense/damage you already have, and what you're fighting... Normally, damage > defense,
  but for example if you can reduce 20 damage to 1, you're better off with defense, if you fight stuff doing 150+ damage, screw defense. Don't get hit.
  
  imo

  
  
  wooot
  DPDPDPDPDPDPDDPPDPDDPDPDPDPDDPPPDP
  
  i lol'd at screw defense, don't get hit.
  
  but instead it shoudah been screw defense, i have money (nao). xP
• Taliya wrote on 2010-08-24 02:40

  Quote from Arsik;135208:

  But what good does 2 or 3 defense do when you do get hit by those big numbers? I could either add a few points to my damage, use a skill that multiplies that, and get an even bigger number. I add a few points to defense, I get hit by a 300 damage attack, and that attack's damage drops from 300 to 298, meaning I'm still hurting.
  
  If the defense stat played a bigger role, then I could see why some people would go for defense enchants, but until the defense stat gets revamped, enchants that add to it are completely useless. Enchants that add to defense are only good if you fight monsters that hit less than 100 damage, and with your comment where you're insulting him, you're making it seem like he's fighting monsters that deal way more than 100, so defense is useless and protection should be more preferable. So if anything, your statement is a more typical novice statement, since you just made yourself appear to not know how defense in this game works.

  
  
  Even in hard missions, most mobs regular melee and magic do less then 100 damage. Protection is more or less against guarding against smashes and well, being able to prevent being critical hit on. With that being said, a combination of both works best.
  
  Also, don't act like my argument is invalid because I play giant. ._. The original post was very general in its question.
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-24 02:50

  Quote from Taliya;135166:

  I guess if you enjoy losing 40hp per spin (I don't use any +hp enchants or titles for the record) and getting pot poisoned to hell. Honestly, even if I got +40 damage. I bet I still couldn't 1-hit a hard shadow mob. So what's the point then if I still have to hit them the same number of times?
  
  Don't bother arguing bosses cause I just usually trans and bust out the lol swing of win. :P

  
  
  The difference between an offensive and tank build are way more than 40... weapons alone would boost around 50-70 damage.
  Assuming only your body equips have defense enchants, using armor would be another 40 damage. Then there's the bits and pieces from the rest of the items. On a windmill crit, that's around 700-900 damage lost, which CAN make or break the a OHKO.
  
  Giants are much better tanks than humans, so the difference isn't as great for them. While what I'm saying still applies, it has less weight for a giant.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-08-24 03:35
  I only use defense boosting enchants on my armor (defensive imp), shield (guardian colonel), and title (barrier spikes master). The rest of my equipment boost damage.
  
  Fully upgraded Dustin Sword has at least 100 base damage (should be more if you got a good smith like I did.) You then get a whopping +42 max damage from untamed destruction.
  
  Fully upgraded mace has 78 max (broad has 73.) A likely but rare combo of Shadow Hunter Spike add about +24x2 max damage.
  
  Dustin sword has it beat. Even more so if you add damaging enchants to the shield as a giant.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-08-24 04:04

  Quote from Taliya;135551:

  I only use defense boosting enchants on my armor (defensive imp), shield (guardian colonel), and title (barrier spikes master). The rest of my equipment boost damage.
  
  Fully upgraded Dustin Sword has at least 100 base damage (should be more if you got a good smith like I did.) You then get a whopping +42 max damage from untamed destruction.
  
  Fully upgraded mace has 78 max (broad has 73.) A likely but rare combo of Shadow Hunter Spike add about +24x2 max damage.
  
  Dustin sword has it beat. Even more so if you add damaging enchants to the shield as a giant.

  
  
  You seem to be forgetting about Iron Maces and Warhammers.
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-24 04:23

  Quote from Taliya;135551:

  I only use defense boosting enchants on my armor (defensive imp), shield (guardian colonel), and title (barrier spikes master). The rest of my equipment boost damage.
  
  Fully upgraded Dustin Sword has at least 100 base damage (should be more if you got a good smith like I did.) You then get a whopping +42 max damage from untamed destruction.
  
  Fully upgraded mace has 78 max (broad has 73.) A likely but rare combo of Shadow Hunter Spike add about +24x2 max damage.
  
  Dustin sword has it beat. Even more so if you add damaging enchants to the shield as a giant.

  
  
  My Demi Lich Croc beats your Dustin with a total of 157 damage, and I still see the benefits of dual-wielding. Dual Broadswords achieve 73 + 22 each, for a grand total of 190 damage.
  +942 for Dustin Smash, +950 for Broadsword Smash. Meaning a 2H weapon Smash only outdamages dual-wielding by your non-weapon damage, while sacrificing around 100 Windmill damage. Plus you ignored the fact that you're losing an additional ~40 damage from using defensive armor as opposed to damage armor or clothing and accessories.
  
  And like I keep repeating, yes Giants have it easier as a tank, but most people are not Giants.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-08-24 04:28
  Woah woah wait a minute. You don't add each weapons base damage together. You don't hit twice when WMing or smashing.
  
  That and crocodile takes away too much defense for my tastes and I don't feel like losing another 100 HP.
• Justified wrote on 2010-08-24 04:34

  Quote from Taliya;135606:

  Woah woah wait a minute. You don't add each weapons base damage together. You don't hit twice when WMing or smashing.
  
  That and crocodile takes away too much defense for my tastes and I don't feel like losing another 100 HP.

  
  
  Windmill and Smash : (Skill Multiplier) * [ Base Damage + Weapon 1 + Weapon 2 ]
  In the case of a 2H weapon, Weapon 2 = 0
  
  So yes, you get the full damage from both weapons. If this wasn't true, you'd deal the same damage with 2 clean weapons as 1 clean weapon, which is not the case.
  
  And my Demi Lich was speaking from a damage point of view, saying that a 2H can't compare with dual-wielding. I certainly wouldn't use it for a tanking build, that's common sense.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-08-24 04:36
  Source? Can't find on wiki.