Are you ready for the next major update?

• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 10:22

  Quote from ironwoman;1182750:

  Only if you don't have the damage.
  Firebolt has lower damage cap. It's true firebolt has faster growth, but magnum will eventually outdamage it.

  
  
  doesn't fbolt max out somewhere around 10k non crit
  
  I don't think anyone hits 10k non-crit magnums without elementals, and elementals will become obsolete in the future anyway
  
  elementals are pretty useless in endgame content..
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 10:23

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1182751:

  In a perfect world where magnum shot doesn't miss this is true. But the first law of the Mabi universe states thou shalt misseth witheth magnum shot. Unless you mean at the point where someone is doing 80k crit magnums or something. Then yes, magnum > cc4 forebolt.

  
  
  I do 30k without a mag reforge, theres not much outside finals of npc round that survive my crit mag. And even then im taking out half their hp or so in one mag.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2013-12-29 10:29
  Depending on how centralized g19 content becomes and wether or not the monsters will be elemental immune will determine if range becomes obsolete. The reason why range is still good now is because although newer content is introducing more and more elemental immune mobs, Mabi is still centralized around shadow missions and NPC tourney. As long as it stays that way range will still be a valid skillset.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 10:32

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1182755:

  Depending on how centralized g19 content becomes and wether or not the monsters will be elemental immune will determine if range becomes obsolete. The reason why range is still good now is because although newer content is introducing more and more elemental immune mobs, Mabi is still centralized around shadow missions and NPC tourney. As long as it stays that way range will still be a valid skillset.

  
  
  It will still be a "valid" skillset no matter if there are ele immune mobs or not, it just wont be so fucking op as it is now. Without elementals range is around guns dmg which isnt horrible but its not amazing. It will be viable, but it wont be faceroll as it is now.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 10:36
  i'm pretty sure eles are getting phased out eventually
  
  the only reason mabi is centralized around sms and tourney is because those are the best ways to level. they just mean you clear the easy stuff faster, though it's not like you weren't already able to clear them without those reforges.. but when it comes down to the actually difficult content, elemental reforges essentially mean nothing.
  
  dat effective range reforge though.. so good for ele immune stuff +_+
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 10:37

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182757:

  i'm pretty sure eles are getting phased out eventually
  
  the only reason mabi is centralized around sms and tourney is because those are the best ways to level. they just mean you clear the easy stuff faster, though it's not like you weren't already able to clear them without those reforges.. but when it comes down to the actually difficult content, elemental reforges essentially mean nothing.
  
  dat effective range reforge though.. so good for ele immune stuff +_+

  
  
  What difficult content? You mean lords?
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 10:53

  Quote from Nui;1182758:

  What difficult content? You mean lords?

  
  
  i mean convoy, blk dragon, white dragon, upcoming dream patch, future harder stuff etc
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 11:04

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182761:

  i mean convoy, blk dragon, white dragon, upcoming dream patch, future harder stuff etc

  
  
  I honestly wouldnt consider convoy or the dragon raids as difficult since convoy is just about cooperation and the dragons are more of a server zerg thing.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 11:33

  Quote from Nui;1182763:

  I honestly wouldnt consider convoy or the dragon raids as difficult since convoy is just about cooperation and the dragons are more of a server zerg thing.

  
  
  i don't see how you not considering it difficult content has any relation to the fact that all those mobs are all elemental immune tho. it's simply a choice of words -- they are relatively more difficult compared to your standard hm/elite sm
  
  my point is, as elves, we currently do not dominate range compared to how giants dominate melee
  
  i dont think squishiness is a factor, but i do think the fact that our only advantage in range is a 1 second advantage on mag cd for humans is pretty pathetic
  
  you can argue for fs, but that thing only comes around once every 5 minutes so it's not like it even matters that much
  
  and plus, i feel like, why would I even use mag anymore if I can just rank int skills, stack regular dmg ESes on clothing, and just spam firebolt for 8k+ normal damage..
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-12-29 11:41

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182761:

  i mean convoy, blk dragon, white dragon, upcoming dream patch, future harder stuff etc

  
  
  Many of the mobs in abyss dungeon are still not immune to elementals, so elemental reforge is still just as relevant.
  
  Now, to compare damages...
  
  Here's firebolt damage with casting speed 20, and firebolt max damage 20. This wand has pretty much your dream "max reforge".
  
  And here's magnum damage with pretty mediocre battlefield overture. The bow is 4/4 ele, so not the "max reforge" you could get unlike the fire wand.
  
  Here's something that's closer to "max reforge" just like the fire wand, except on bows. 49.6% overture, and bone dragon chip. 6/6 ele. Even removing the factors, you'll see that the number is still higher than the firebolt damage above.
  
  Usually the 10k non crit you see on firebolt is because people use reforges... hence you can't really make the argument "you don't see people hitting 10k non crit mags without reforges", because the third person has been shown to hit 10k non crit magnums without reforges (thanks to overture), while the firebolt guy had to use reforge to reach that 10k non crit.
  And reforges does much more for the last archer, while the person who's firebolting is pretty much capped there.
  So yes, in the end, magnum > cc4.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 11:44

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182766:

  i don't see how you not considering it difficult content has any relation to the fact that all those mobs are all elemental immune tho. it's simply a choice of words -- they are relatively more difficult compared to your standard hm/elite sm
  
  my point is, as elves, we currently do not dominate range compared to how giants dominate melee
  
  i dont think squishiness is a factor, but i do think the fact that our only advantage in range is a 1 second advantage on mag cd for humans is pretty pathetic
  
  you can argue for fs, but that thing only comes around once every 5 minutes so it's not like it even matters that much
  
  and plus, i feel like, why would I even use mag anymore if I can just rank int skills, stack regular dmg ESes on clothing, and just spam firebolt for 8k+ normal damage..

  
  
  Elementals will never be obsolete with how the game is now. New content released with elemental immune mobs only means that they want the new content to be more challenging, but it wont change the fact that 95% of the content isnt elemental immune and that percent wont go very far down for a good few years at the rate the game content is being released.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 11:48

  Quote from ironwoman;1182767:

  Many of the mobs in abyss dungeon are still not immune to elementals, so elemental reforge is still just as relevant.
  
  Now, to compare damages...
  
  Here's firebolt damage with casting speed 20, and firebolt max damage 20. This wand has pretty much your dream "max reforge".
  
  And here's magnum damage with pretty mediocre battlefield overture. The bow is 4/4 ele, so not the "max reforge" you could get unlike the fire wand.
  
  Here's something that's closer to "max reforge" just like the fire wand, except on bows. 49.6% overture, and bone dragon chip. 6/6 ele. Even removing the factors, you'll see that the number is still higher than the firebolt damage above.
  
  Usually the 10k non crit you see on firebolt is because people use reforges... hence you can't really make the argument "you don't see people hitting 10k non crit mags without reforges", because the third person has been shown to hit 10k non crit magnums without reforges (thanks to overture), while the firebolt guy had to use reforge to reach that 10k non crit.
  And reforges does much more for the last archer, while the person who's firebolting is pretty much capped there.
  So yes, in the end, magnum > cc4.

  
  
  
  I was told abyss/dream patch content is ele immune, so idk about that, but the general trend has been more and more ele immune monsters
  
  plus you're comparing a reforged bow with a reforged fire wand, which is not a fair comparison
  
  10k normal for firebolt with reforges is applicable anywhere, whereas you cannot hit 10k normal with mag without ele, which does not make that huge ele damage applicable anywhere.. which is my point
  
  and my point is that as elves, we have virtually no advantage over human range save for the 1 sec less cd on mag.. and fs which we get once every 5 mins
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-29 11:54

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182769:

  I was told abyss/dream patch content is ele immune, so idk about that, but the general trend has been more and more ele immune monsters
  
  plus you're comparing a reforged bow with a reforged fire wand, which is not a fair comparison
  
  10k normal for firebolt with reforges is applicable anywhere, whereas you cannot hit 10k normal with mag without ele, which does not make that huge ele damage applicable anywhere.. which is my point
  
  and my point is that as elves, we have virtually no advantage over human range save for the 1 sec less cd on mag.. and fs which we get once every 5 mins

  
  
  Going to direct you to my earlier post:
  

  Quote from Nui;1182629:

  How about they focus more on more difficult content or hell I'd even take a global nerf at this point. I can understand a need for equality but constantly raising the bar for each race will only make the difficulty drop and drop. Either buff the mobs, nerf the players, or just revamp the entire dam system at this point but asking for a buff to one specific race will only cause the other races to complain and ask for a buff too and there will be a constant chain of buffs into a point where you can literally snap ur fingers and finish the mission. Honestly, at this current point in time everything is as balanced as it has ever been (this doesnt mean everything is balanced but its alot closer than normal) and I'd hate to see it fucked up because devcat decides to grant the players wishes and continue to buff things people find "less than extraordinary".

  
  
  Elves arent underpowered. Just because you cant kill something in one second or because something shines a bit brighter on the battle field doenst warrant a buff. Elves are fine as they are, just because they arent the best doesn't mean that they need a buff. While im not keen on the MWM that was added (mostly because I feel it warrants less work for more output) I dont think it warrants a buff for everything else.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-12-29 11:58

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182769:

  I was told abyss/dream patch content is ele immune, so idk about that, but the general trend has been more and more ele immune monsters
  
  plus you're comparing a reforged bow with a reforged fire wand, which is not a fair comparison
  
  10k normal for firebolt with reforges is applicable anywhere, whereas you cannot hit 10k normal with mag without ele, which does not make that huge ele damage applicable anywhere.. which is my point
  
  and my point is that as elves, we have virtually no advantage over human range save for the 1 sec less cd on mag.. and fs which we get once every 5 mins

  
  
  Go to this thread and confirm yourself. It clearly lists many mobs that are not immune to elementals. And regardless, most of the mobs are still not immune to elementals, which is why elemental reforge will still be relevant.
  
  And I stated that the last archer doesn't need reforge to do 10k normal mags... while the mage does. And it is a fair comparison, because both are maxed reforge as they can be. You really think it's a fair comparison to compare an end game fire wand ego to an unreforged bow?
  
  And that 1 sec less cooldown on mag is a huge difference. It's enough difference to show how many shots you can land and how much damage you can do on Fleta, Sephiroth, or Duke in 10 seconds.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-29 13:36

  Quote from Nui;1182770:

  Going to direct you to my earlier post:
  
  
  Elves arent underpowered. Just because you cant kill something in one second or because something shines a bit brighter on the battle field doenst warrant a buff. Elves are fine as they are, just because they arent the best doesn't mean that they need a buff. While im not keen on the MWM that was added (mostly because I feel it warrants less work for more output) I dont think it warrants a buff for everything else.

  
  
  except at this point elves are clearly the worst off
  
  our gunner damage is the lowest
  our fighter damage is the lowest
  our melee is shit + we lack dual wield
  we dont have lances (granted, giants dont have range either but i'll be happy to give them range if it's going to end up as shitty as elf melee)
  our range is only slightly better than humans' because of mag, which is rivaled by firebolt anyway b/c it doesn't miss and the only times our mag is decent is with ele reforge and we're hitting stuff that's not ele immune -- generally not endgame content anyway, so cd difference doesn't even matter that much.
  our magic damage is essentially the same as humans/giants
  
  hey just look at all those categories that elves suck at
  i'm not complaining so much that range is weak, just that we don't excel at range like giants excel at melee. essentially an elf is the worst race to play right now in combat terms
  
  i'm not saying that elves necessarily need a buff, i'd be perfectly happy if giants and humans just got a nerf too =>
  
  and i will take a cs cd reduction over the 1 sec advantage we have on mag cd any day.
  
  i mean why do you think elf range revamp was the most asked for thing on kr polls anyway.
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1182771:

  Go to this thread and confirm yourself. It clearly lists many mobs that are not immune to elementals. And regardless, most of the mobs are still not immune to elementals, which is why elemental reforge will still be relevant.

  
  
  most of the mobs there ARE immune to elementals.. sure you can say that the reforges will still be relevant, but to what extent? they're essentially just getting phased out and becoming completely inconsistent in future content
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1182771:

  And I stated that the last archer doesn't need reforge to do 10k normal mags... while the mage does. And it is a fair comparison, because both are maxed reforge as they can be. You really think it's a fair comparison to compare an end game fire wand ego to an unreforged bow?

  
  
  I didn't say that the bow necessarily has to be unreforged. It's a bad comparison because the bow is elemental reforged and as a result it's inconsistent.
  
  a better comparison would be a lvl 20 max dmg and lvl 20 max bow mastery dmg bow for total of +60 dmg we're going for consistent damage. eles are simply too inconsistent to be a good comparison, because the changes are huge depending on the mob you're facing, whereas the +60 damage would apply everywhere like the reforge on the wand.
  
  anyway, i'm not sure where those stats are coming from? with 1500 cap dex, bhafel, almost maxed ES, and bfo, i can see mag hitting ~12k, but i'd still take 10k firebolt over that anyway
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1182771:

  And that 1 sec less cooldown on mag is a huge difference. It's enough difference to show how many shots you can land and how much damage you can do on Fleta, Sephiroth, or Duke in 10 seconds.

  
  
  fleta wouldn't be hard to kill because if we're talking about an ele bow + endgame player... then how many shots a human can fire within a set time to kill her vs. an elf doing the same reeeaaally doesnt matter at all.
  
  in the case of Sephiroth + Duke, I'd rather be using firebolt since eles would be useless anyway, and firebolt ends up being the same for both races. it's safer and doesn't miss + i dont have to shoot it point blank to be doing decent dps, and it's just so much less connection reliant.