Elves and Giants Meele/Range nerfs

• User495 wrote on 2010-08-22 22:16
  giant magic skills should cost less AP and gives less CP (from what I see there's really no difference)
  
  and be given an range counter attack that only works with WindGuard xD
  
  I thought elves already have some kind of HP nerf in Combat Mastery, but if that's not the case then I agree with that
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-22 22:20

  Quote from EndlessDreams;133811:

  Well, without those basic melee skills, it would make elves a lot harder to start out. While not all elves rank those skills early, they usually get them to at least to rF to kill beginner monsters to build up their "early game" character.
  
  Giant throw on the other hand, aren't really as necessary since their good melee lets them play the "early game" well already.
  
  The Mana/HP from skills between the two don't really make much difference when considering other +mana/life skills out there. (Thunder, Life Drain, etc.)

  
  
  I see what you mean, but the OP is saying how with comparison of skills of weakness between Elf/Giant, it's a 3:1 ratio and that's not fair. I've stated this a long time ago as well, Elves can basically kill anything even if they have PD, for instance in Metus the Prison Ghosts. If the elf encounters a Red Prison Ghost the elf can kill it because solely of Windmill, as long as they can keep their distance they can windmill and of course don't forget Charge>Smash when it charges magic, so elves can kill Red Prison Ghosts with melee.
  
  Giants on the other hand, encounters a Brown Prison Ghost, then they are screwed. Throwing Attack being their main ranged based attack is utterly weak with a stupidly long load time. (You: But in G12 Throw gets stronger.) Yes, but it now gets latched with a 25 second cooldown. How the hell is that a skill buff?? The main problem of Throwing Attack was not that it is weak, the problem was that it is extremely slow. Even using the 25 second load time FB is more efficient in damage. DevCat tried to boost Throw, but instead they made it crappy with the cooldown. If the cooldown wasn't there it would be a great skill. Now you'll probably say that it will be broken, but I say that an elf using the SoG glitch with regular arrows/Magnum is even more broken than 900% damage per 2 seconds.
  
  I believe that Giants should get a ranged update. Throwing Attack is still dead, for example the training requirements need you to "knockdown an enemy". How the hell can you train that with a skill that loads 2 seconds and has 25 seconds cooldown?? (Considering that you do not set finish to all for party). Giants should get a KB range skill and a fast shooting skill, of course to keep the elves from complaining as well, make it equivalent to an elf's melee damage.
• Zid wrote on 2010-08-22 22:30
  The suggestion that is brought forth seems like a very lacking way of showing how Elves and Giants are different. It just rather made a solution that's dull and un-inventive.
  
  I still think Elves don't need Smash. A beginner monster, or any monster at all, using Defense is no threat anyway; saying that situation impedes beginner Elves only impedes by a few seconds, or is resolved with Magnum Shot or even Firebolt. Besides, if going Ranged as a Giant is against the game's focus, why not going Melee as an Elf any less of that? Leaving out Smash makes Melee tactics still viable as an Elf, but doesn't give them any less of a severe handicap as Ranged Giants.
  
  I still believe a doable solution is no Smash for Elves because they have Counter and Windmill (while Giants don't even have a KB Ranged skill), plus Charge and the soon-to-be Down Attack. Keep the 2 second cooldown of G12S2 Throwing Attack, while also making it automatic knockdown like Firebolt. Also, make Charge doable while wielding an Atlatl. 1 second cooldown Throwing Attack with no KB is overpowered anyway.
  
  And for goodness sakes, a 100 Javelin "quiver" at least. 50 Javelins in one stack still doesn't justify its price or inventory size.
  
  Btw, didn't know Str affects Throwing Attack. O.o
• Chillax wrote on 2010-08-22 22:31
  I think Throwing Attack should be changed to Magnum Shot.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-22 22:34
  Exactly, I don't like the fact that we have to knock down an enemy with a skill that can't knock down anything by itself without aid.
• Invertex wrote on 2010-08-22 22:51
  Removing skills is always a touchy subject, honestly it's more likely and practical that they alter/add skills.
  Really I'd rather see Giants get some more ranged options, other people have already said enough about that.
• Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-08-22 22:57

  Quote from Chillax;133840:

  I think Throwing Attack should be changed to Magnum Shot.

  
  
  Keep the old Throwing Attack, add in the new one as a Magnum?
• Chillax wrote on 2010-08-22 23:04

  Quote from Andy-Buddy;133856:

  Keep the old Throwing Attack, add in the new one as a Magnum?

  
  
  More like keep the load time, lose the cooldown, and add in the knockback.
• Time wrote on 2010-08-22 23:08
  I think giants do need some good type of ranged attack.....But you shouldnt get rid of elf skills to make up for giants sucking at range/magic....
• Arsik wrote on 2010-08-22 23:35
  Giants should be getting a reduced AP cost for Magic skills just like how Elves get reduced AP costs for their Melee skills. We're already suffering with the increase in Mana consumption/less MP from Magic Mastery, which I consider equal to the Elves' lower stat gain/damage/defense from their Melee skills. Trust me, using 8MP for R5+ LB is so much more painful than it looks, compared to the Humans'/Elves' 5MP per cast.
  
  And having another range attack besides Throwing Attack and Stomp would be very welcome. Why is it that we have two skills that count as range attacks, and yet can't knock anything down by itself? And the cooldown for Throw Attack? Understandable, if it was a 5 second cooldown or something. 25 is overkill. With a 5 second cooldown, it prevents people from spamming those Jousting Javelins that give an extra 400 Min/Max damage, but its not excruciating as it will be in G12. It should be able to knockdown opponents by itself, considering that its a big pointy stick that's being flung at a very high velocity by a being that was built for physical strength. Stomp should be the regular range attack, since it does have a pretty good range and load time (at R1), and only stuns and not instantly knocksdown.
  
  But that's what I think anyways.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-22 23:45

  Quote from Arsik;133893:

  Giants should be getting a reduced AP cost for Magic skills just like how Elves get reduced AP costs for their Melee skills. We're already suffering with the increase in Mana consumption/less MP from Magic Mastery, which I consider equal to the Elves' lower stat gain/damage/defense from their Melee skills. Trust me, using 8MP for R5+ LB is so much more painful than it looks, compared to the Humans'/Elves' 5MP per cast.
  
  And having another range attack besides Throwing Attack and Stomp would be very welcome. Why is it that we have two skills that count as range attacks, and yet can't knock anything down by itself? And the cooldown for Throw Attack? Understandable, if it was a 5 second cooldown or something. 25 is overkill. With a 5 second cooldown, it prevents people from spamming those Jousting Javelins that give an extra 400 Min/Max damage, but its not excruciating as it will be in G12. It should be able to knockdown opponents by itself, considering that its a big pointy stick that's being flung at a very high velocity by a being that was built for physical strength. Stomp should be the regular range attack, since it does have a pretty good range and load time (at R1), and only stuns and not instantly knocksdown.
  
  But that's what I think anyways.

  
  
  I agree with most of it except the stomp part.
  
  By giving it instant knockdown, you would be nerfing it more than buffing it. Why? Because stomp can easily cause aggro dam and make things easier at things like sprite elemental gathering, spider type mobs not able to attack you, etc.
  
  Remove the stomp idea and you should be the C5 director. :P
• Arsik wrote on 2010-08-22 23:46

  Quote from abc33kr;133910:

  I agree with most of it except the stomp part.
  
  By giving it instant knockdown, you would be nerfing it more than buffing it. Why? Because stomp can easily cause aggro dam and make things easier at things like sprite elemental gathering, spider type mobs not able to attack you, etc.
  
  Remove the stomp idea and you should be the C5 director. :P

  
  
  No, Throwing Attack is the instant knockdown, Stomp is the "equivalent" of Range Attack. Dx
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-22 23:48

  Quote from Arsik;133913:

  No, Throwing Attack is the instant knockdown, Stomp is the "equivalent" of Range Attack. Dx

  
  
  ohh i see. misread it xP
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-08-22 23:50
  I would just get rid of that 25 second cooldown for Giants.
  
  Make it epic, like Elves' ranged attack.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-22 23:55
  I don't get why the director does not add these suggestions when many people want them, including non-giants.