Elves and Giants Meele/Range nerfs

• Chihaya wrote on 2010-08-23 00:44
  i say they buff Human's abilities =D
  just kidding
  But I seriously think that elves are okay at the moment. If the range of elves are annoying, just charge. Keep pressuring them with melee, which is what Humans and Giants especially excel at. Elf magic is not really better in any way, since there's no difference in damage or charging speed, just mana usage.
• jark007 wrote on 2010-08-23 01:27
  well if they get rid of cooldown for throwing attack they should add aiming % too.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-23 01:38

  Quote from Joyjason;134052:

  i say they buff Human's abilities =D
  just kidding
  But I seriously think that elves are okay at the moment. If the range of elves are annoying, just charge. Keep pressuring them with melee, which is what Humans and Giants especially excel at. Elf magic is not really better in any way, since there's no difference in damage or charging speed, just mana usage.

  
  
  We're not really talking in the perspective of PvP. PvP is a troll. It's just that it's stupid how Giants are completely left out by monsters with Heavy Stander and Mana Deflector, so Giants need a better ranged attack/upgrade.
• jark007 wrote on 2010-08-23 01:47

  Quote from Blassreiter;134106:

  We're not really talking in the perspective of PvP. PvP is a troll. It's just that it's stupid how Giants are completely left out by monsters with Heavy Stander and Mana Deflector, so Giants need a better ranged attack/upgrade.

  
  
  If you really need something that breaks through mana deflector/heavy stander use alchemy. Its still reduced, but its not reduced as much as normal magic.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-23 01:55

  Quote from jark007;134117:

  If you really need something that breaks through mana deflector/heavy stander use alchemy. Its still reduced, but its not reduced as much as normal magic.

  
  
  So if you're an elf and you encounter an enemy with HS/MD, would you use ranged for no damage reduction or Alchemy for some damage reduction?
• Zid wrote on 2010-08-23 02:37
  I can see how Elves would complain about lack of freedom if Smash was taken out though as compensation.
  
  Rather, just buff Throwing Attack to have its original 2 second load time, no cool down, automatic knock back/down, and 100 Javelin quiver. And allow them to participate in Ranged/Magnum Shot Dan exams.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-08-23 03:55
  Well, if enough people ignore Throw skill, they probably going to end up changing it again anyways.
• Iyasenu wrote on 2010-08-23 05:07

  Quote from EndlessDreams;134328:

  Well, if enough people ignore Throw skill, they probably going to end up changing it again anyways.

  
  
  Like with support shot?
  ... Wait, I wasn't the only person who ignored that, was I?
  
  Anyways, when people were talking about adding knockdown to throwing attack, and removing the cooldown it made me think of this:
  Well, something like Water Cannon and Blaze's traits combined. Like... hold down the skill button to charge up your throw and a charged enough throw would knock them back or away, while just being within a certain range would knock them back.
  
  But, to be honest i stopped using Throwing attack early on, since it seemed to displace enemies on my screen so that they'd hit me from super far away, just cuz i wasn't seeing them moving xD
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-23 05:15

  Quote from Iyasenu;134395:

  Like with support shot?
  ... Wait, I wasn't the only person who ignored that, was I?
  
  Anyways, when people were talking about adding knockdown to throwing attack, and removing the cooldown it made me think of this:
  Well, something like Water Cannon and Blaze's traits combined. Like... hold down the skill button to charge up your throw and a charged enough throw would knock them back or away, while just being within a certain range would knock them back.
  
  But, to be honest i stopped using Throwing attack early on, since it seemed to displace enemies on my screen so that they'd hit me from super far away, just cuz i wasn't seeing them moving xD

  
  
  go lead the mabinogi development team right now. xP
• Juno wrote on 2010-08-23 12:47
  Melee is a lot more fundamental then ranged, as in it's the only skillset you can rely on when something is actually in your face. Magic and Alchemy have load times while ranged needs to load/aim. For that reason it's not a good idea to gimp a race in melee as much as giants have been gimped in range. It's also why with giants boosts in melee they weren't seen as needing a real ranged attack.
  
  Removing smash would be safe, albeit drastic...and we've seen how touchy the mabinogi community is. At this point people are going to get upset if melee elves are reduced in viability. A better alternative would be to give giants a decent ranged option...which is what they're experimenting with already.
• Rebel wrote on 2010-08-23 13:12
  If they removed smash for elf, i'd have to get hard peaca boots :(
  I like my Ravens, i get all of 3 defense with them and my darkness on! Go glass cannon!
• December wrote on 2010-08-23 13:40
  I'd have to agree that Elves really get less downsides compared to giants, but consider that elves melee skills have suffered. Windmill -50% DMG, Defense decrease, Counter DMG reduced, Smash Load Time increased, No Dual Wield, No Heavy Armour, etc etc. In reality the time one would spend making a Ranged Giant or Melee Elf would have better potential spent elsewhere.
  
  What if they made it more like magnum, e.g rank 1: 500% Damage, 100% Accuracy Rate, 10 Second Cool Down, and increased the stun so you can combo easier? Meh, I dunno
  
  

  Quote from jark007;133777:

  personally PvP wise i think AR needs to be nerfed. Its so annoying when humans with way worse range then me beat me by spamming AR.

  
  
  Its already been nerfed once T.T
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-08-23 14:14

  Quote from December;134622:

  I'd have to agree that Elves really get less downsides compared to giants, but consider that elves melee skills have suffered. Windmill -50% DMG, Defense decrease, Counter DMG reduced, Smash Load Time increased, No Dual Wield, No Heavy Armour, etc etc. In reality the time one would spend making a Ranged Giant or Melee Elf would have better potential spent elsewhere.
  
  What if they made it more like magnum, e.g rank 1: 500% Damage, 100% Accuracy Rate, 10 Second Cool Down, and increased the stun so you can combo easier? Meh, I dunno
  
  
  
  Its already been nerfed once T.T

  
  
  1. It's better to have crippled skills than to lack the skills completely. While Elves cannot compete with human/giant melee potential, they can effectively utilize the skills in combat. Giants, on the other hand, have reduced effectiveness in multiple areas including ranged which is absolutely crippled in comparison.
  
  Skills that Humans lack: (9) Final shot, Elven ranged attack, Mirage missile, Wind guard, Taunt, Stomp, Throwing Attack, Full swing, Magic missile
  Skills that Giants lack: (11) Final shot, Elven ranged attack, Mirage missile, Human ranged attack, Magnum shot, Crash shot, Support shot, Arrow Revolver, Final Hit, Magic missile, Control of Darkness
  Skills that Elves lack: (8) Wind Guard, Taunt, Stomp, Arrow Revolver, Final Hit, Throwing Attack, Full Swing, Control of Darkness
  
  2. Note Arrow Revolver's position on the ranged DPS chart. (Minus refire time)
  
  Human Magnum Shot: 333
  Arrow Revolver: 490
  Elven Ranged Attack: 666
  Elven Magnum Shot: 1000
  
  Not that overpowered in PVE is it? PVP means nothing in this game. It's like whining over Icebolt camp in EVG.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2010-08-23 17:52
  I don't really like the idea of removing the basic melee skills for elves, instead it is better to give basic ranged skills (a regular fast weaker ranged attack and a stronger slower knockdown ranged attack) for giants made to be equivalent to melee elf's damage, no more no less.
  
  Also this isn't important but I don't like how in the Throwing Attack animation the Giant throws the atlatl along with the Javelin. That's not how it's suppose to be realistically but whatever..