[Discussion - Game Balance] Current skills that needs tweaking?

• Tropa wrote on 2014-02-14 03:46
  I still use charge, mainly for arrow blocking/running over archers though
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-02-14 03:50
  I only ranked Charge because of the stats it gave. Now its only useful for closing in distance.
• Friggerton wrote on 2014-02-14 04:27
  I don't think charge needs a buff... if any change need be made for balance it should be for humans and elves to use it without shields (maybe with a less distance or ranged attack defense without a shield). it's an excellent skill for placement aside from closing distance, i.e. charge smash or charge crash shot.... probably charge heat buster.
• Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2014-02-14 07:58
  Nerf everything, make demigod skills stronger.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-03-02 17:32
  okay this is getting ridiculous
  
  Melee Combat:
  
  Players gain +1 Max for every 3.5 STR and +1 min for every 3.5 STR.
  Piercing now ignores 3 defense and 2 protection per level (down from 6 defense and 4 protection).
  Windmill's base damage is now 200% for Giants and Humans, and 175% for Elves (down from 250/200%).
  Lances cannot be used with Shields by any race.
  
  
  Range Combat:
  Dexterity now gives 1 Max for every 3.5 Dexterity.
  Magnum Shot now does 600% for Elves at Rank 1.
  Crash Shot reduced to 200% at Rank 1.
  
  
  Puppetry
  Puppetry now gains no damage from normal max damage enchants.
  Puppetry gains 1 Max damage per 5 Str and Dex
  Act 7: Climatic Crash reduced to 500% damage, subsequent hits do half damage.
  Cooldowns of Puppetry Skills reduced by 1 second per use of other Puppetry Skills.
  
  tl;dr, range needs minor tweaks and melee and puppetry need to be olafed
• Adrianblade wrote on 2014-03-02 17:40

  Quote from Perfectio;1203427:

  okay this is getting ridiculous
  
  Melee Combat:
  
  Players gain +1 Max for every 3.5 STR and +1 min for every 3.5 STR.
  Piercing now ignores 3 defense and 2 protection per level (down from 6 defense and 4 protection).
  Windmill's base damage is now 200% for Giants and Humans, and 175% for Elves (down from 250/200%).
  Lances cannot be used with Shields by any race.
  
  
  Range Combat:
  Dexterity now gives 1 Max for every 3.5 Dexterity.
  Magnum Shot now does 600% for Elves at Rank 1.
  Crash Shot reduced to 200% at Rank 1.
  
  
  Puppetry
  Puppetry now gains no damage from normal max damage enchants.
  Puppetry gains 1 Max damage per 5 Str and Dex
  Act 7: Climatic Crash reduced to 500% damage, subsequent hits do half damage.
  Cooldowns of Puppetry Skills reduced by 1 second per use of other Puppetry Skills.
  
  tl;dr, range needs minor tweaks and melee and puppetry need to be olafed

  
  
  Why nerf windmill damage? And why buff elf magnum?
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-03-02 18:33

  Quote from Perfectio;1203427:

  okay this is getting ridiculous
  
  Melee Combat:
  
  Players gain +1 Max for every 3.5 STR and +1 min for every 3.5 STR.
  Piercing now ignores 3 defense and 2 protection per level (down from 6 defense and 4 protection).
  Windmill's base damage is now 200% for Giants and Humans, and 175% for Elves (down from 250/200%).
  Lances cannot be used with Shields by any race.
  
  
  Range Combat:
  Dexterity now gives 1 Max for every 3.5 Dexterity.
  Magnum Shot now does 600% for Elves at Rank 1.
  Crash Shot reduced to 200% at Rank 1.
  
  
  Puppetry
  Puppetry now gains no damage from normal max damage enchants.
  Puppetry gains 1 Max damage per 5 Str and Dex
  Act 7: Climatic Crash reduced to 500% damage, subsequent hits do half damage.
  Cooldowns of Puppetry Skills reduced by 1 second per use of other Puppetry Skills.
  
  tl;dr, range needs minor tweaks and melee and puppetry need to be olafed

  
  
  Rather than these skills deserving nerf, I'd say it's the other skillsets that deserve a buff.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-03-02 19:09
  Except for the piercing change, which admittedly was big, Melee and Range have always been like this. It's just now happening that we're starting to see lances with high end reforges and special upgrades. Merlin/Vate/etc closed the gap significantlybut short of making the numbers skyhigh, an geared mage/alchemist/gunner/fighter will never be as good as an equally geared lancer
  
  The issue with Melee, Range and Puppet isn't the damage - it's that while Gunner has to weave in auto attacks and skills in order to deal its damage, Fighter has to get up close and personal and lock down one target while dealing with multiaggro, Alchemy needs to line up a group for Flame Burst or focus a target with single target burst (though its strength is more its utility), Windmill literally needs to hit one button to clear a mob instantly with virtually zero risk or setup required, or to burst a target for 40-60k. Ranged is balanced (high gear expenditure, high reward) outside Crash Shot really, and Elves need to have an edge over humans in terms of ranged to begin with. Puppet goes Act 6/Act 7 and clears a mob instantly. This is without even getting into the scaling returns of Battlefield Brokenture.
  
  

  Why nerf windmill damage? And why buff elf magnum?

  
  
  because 8-10k damage windmills are broken and because elves get a compensatory buff for having crash nerfed while shifting them to a more specialized role of ranged single target DPS.
• Syrion wrote on 2014-03-02 19:30
  why does a PVE game even need balance
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-03-02 20:21

  Quote from Syrion;1203443:

  why does a PVE game even need balance

  
  Every game needs balance, not even just online games. Without balance games become too easy or too hard, some skills become pointless because they aren't worth using, [S]and you'll fall over when walking down the street.[/S]
• revdb wrote on 2014-03-02 21:01
  Well charge was meant as a racial advantage for giants, so I don't think they should change charge (there are shieldless charge reforges anyway). On a side note, they should change elf ranged attack to use less stam like it used to and increase aim speed. For 90ish more ap and less dex and max compared to humans, you'd think it would have a significant advantage. Maybe apply aiming speed increase to slow ranged skills like magnum and crash shot.
• Syrion wrote on 2014-03-02 21:39

  Quote from Zekkii;1203454:

  Every game needs balance, not even just online games. Without balance games become too easy or too hard, some skills become pointless because they aren't worth using, [S]and you'll fall over when walking down the street.[/S]

  
  
  yeah balancing content vs player power, but the reason for that is that making new content is a lot of work
  
  i think this class vs class thing is way too hard to call, and pretty balanced overall right now
  
  it only looks imbalanced when you say an aggro control skillset like alchemy doesn't do as much AOE damage as melee or puppet
  
  i think the only thing underpowered is mage AOE damage very slightly. Alch does no damage but that doesn't matter unless you try to use it for DPS, where you can look forward to spending an hour clearing coill abyss like tropa.
• Tropa wrote on 2014-03-02 23:44

  Quote from revdb;1203462:

  Maybe apply aiming speed increase to slow ranged skills like magnum and crash shot.

  
  
  If anything, this, Can't count how many elfQQ threads I see on the nexon forums.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-03-03 02:19

  Quote from Syrion;1203469:

  yeah balancing content vs player power, but the reason for that is that making new content is a lot of work
  
  i think this class vs class thing is way too hard to call, and pretty balanced overall right now
  
  it only looks imbalanced when you say an aggro control skillset like alchemy doesn't do as much AOE damage as melee or puppet

  
  
  Alchemy is probably fine because of its utility. Gunner and Fighter are underpowered not because of damage but because it tends to put the player at risk. Puppet and melee have very little risk associated to it, it's incredibly faceroll for the damage it does. Also the damage difference becomes even more of an issue because of piercing, and the existence of Overture (imagine if Water Cannon or Firebolt or Hailstorm could get 35-50% extra damage for free)
  
  I think all the classes are viable, and you could argue that magic is #3 because puppetry has no single target DPS while magic does. But the difference between every other skillset and lances is massive right now.
• Syrion wrote on 2014-03-03 16:10
  Gunner has really really good aggro control, better than melee usually and bigger AOE vs lower cooldowns. Fighter is pretty niche and is useful as a 2ndary for single target burst/mobility, but I think most people realize this and don't main fighter.