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ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-11 22:48
Quote from Perfectio;1197278:
i love how the most dominant talent in the history of the game asks for buffs
yet when magic which has been trash tier for most of the game's existence gets buffed to be sort of on par then everyone SCREAMS for nerfs
To be honest, I think we're all fine where we're at.
Those people that you mention clearly don't know enough about the game.
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Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-11 23:01
In general:
Puppets are too strong
Lances are too strong
Range is just right
Alchemy is just right
Magic is just right but is too dependent on Crisis
Non-lance melee is too weak
Sword and Shield is WAAAAAAAAY too weak
Fighter is just right
Gunner is a bit weak
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Tropa wrote on 2014-02-11 23:04
Quote from ironwoman;1197282:
To be honest, I think we're all fine where we're at.
Those people that you mention clearly don't know enough about the game.
Magic right now Is okay, they need to buff/change intermediate magic.
Quote from Perfectio;1197285:
In general:
Alchemy is just right
I agree with you there, just a few things though.
- Alchemy Mastery, Water Alchemy & Fire Alchemy needs to effect Watercannon's and Flameburst's end damage, instead of being a waste of AP.
- Chain Cylinder's cooldown needs to be dependent on how many charges were added.
- Heat Buster needs a indirect buff, to scale with content.
- Shock's and Raincasting's cooldowns needs to start when the skill sets up successfully.
- Normal Frozenblast needs a slightly higher success rate.
- Golems need a better AI for AI mode.
- Life Drain's Health Recovery should be based on your max health, not a set number.
Yeah, that's about it. Besides those listed above, I'm content with alchemy.
Fighter is just right
Fighter currently has a few glitches and is easily interpretable, the damage is on spot, but the skill usage is iffy.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-11 23:46
Quote from Tropa;1197287:
Magic right now Is okay, they need to buff/change intermediate magic.
Thunder is almost useless, at least from the players that I've seen. Not too short charging time, and still mediocre damage. I think thunder needs the most tweak.
Fireball has good aoe damage, but too slow. I wanna see firebolt go down just a bit in damage but much faster casting time, so that you still keep the aoe damage, just more of a sustained damage rather than burst-oriented.
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Syliara wrote on 2014-02-11 23:56
Quote from ironwoman;1197207:
I have some problems with things you say here.
You do realize they actually used bow damage for windmill long time ago? You know why it was patched? Because archers could just windmill their way through without ranking melee skills at all. Think about it, if you could clear a room with bows just as fast as other melee weapons, and still have the ability to change to ranged skills right after, doesn't that seem a little op? While windmill was using bow damage, some Elves could just solo dungeons just by bow milling. In today's situation, where you can get shit tons of dex, this would make melee weapons besides lances pointless, and even lances could lose out due to the sheer differences of dex and str cap. There was a good reason why devCat decided to nerf bowmill a long time ago. So no, windmill or counter with bow damage will not work, it'll make range too op, as if it wasn't powerful already.
The reason range can miss is because it has higher damage potential. Even for human magnums, you can fire like 3 magnums while you use smash. As for crash shot, you have much higher damage potential than windmill, hence slightly longer cool down. And if it means your death when you miss, and therefore you "gamble", there's something wrong there. I don't die when I miss, I just load counter or windmill. I don't really see a problem with missing.
Agreeing with ironwoman. I can Support bowmill for 15k crits. If I were to have 800-900 max as well you are looking at ridiculously overpowered wm's.
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Zunori wrote on 2014-02-12 00:08
I think that Human Dual Wield should be buffed.
Same with 1hand + Shield weapons.
One-Handed Swords in general should be buffed.
They really don't deal much damage anymore.
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Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-12 02:02
Firebolt is actually a tad weak in terms of raw numbers compared to range while boasting arguably similar overall resource investment (capped ego, r1ing fire wand ego, r1 hebona set, Bolt 20, Casting 20, combo card, and no preforges), largely because Firebolt MATK is effectively hardcapped at 500ish (300 from int, 40 from Holy Eagle Mask, 80 from MATK reforge which you don't want unless it's part of a Casting/FB damage/MATK trifecta, 50 from Meteor Strike Mastery, 40 from Scathach, and about 20 from MATK accs and enchants)
I would support nerfing Magic Weapon Mastery to a 1.5x buff (as opposed to a 2.5x buff) and changing Firebolt's MATK scaling from 0.5 to 2.0. Furthermore, I would nerf the base casting time by adding .5 seconds but decrease the casting time .07 seconds per 100 points of INT.
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Tropa wrote on 2014-02-12 02:11
Quote from Perfectio;1197333:
I would support nerfing Magic Weapon Mastery to a 1.5x buff (as opposed to a 2.5x buff) and changing Firebolt's MATK scaling from 0.5 to 2.0. Furthermore, I would nerf the base casting time by adding .5 seconds but decrease the casting time .07 seconds per 100 points of INT.
Charging in general needs a smoother animation for Magic and Alchemy, if they'd remove the delay in between charges, the skills would be alot faster.
Also I would add more multiplicative sources of damage
I would love for devcat to add in Ice Magic Damage, Fire Magic Damage and Lightning Damage enchants and titles.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2014-02-12 06:15
Quote from Perfectio;1197278:
i love how the most dominant talent in the history of the game asks for buffs
yet when magic which has been trash tier for most of the game's existence gets buffed to be sort of on par then everyone SCREAMS for nerfs
Range has always suffered due to the racial skill split. (Elf) Ranged Attack needs a buff and the talent could use a new skill. We're at the point where Magnum Shot's potentially heavy single target DPS is irrelevant because you can overkill everything with just about any skilll.
I'm not saying that range should receive a buff (aside from improving Ranged Attack and possibly Spider Shot) but some new options would be handy.
Magic hasn't "been trash tier for most of the game's existence". I've been efficiently crushing this game with magic since I picked it up back in G11; the talent itself wasn't as grossly overpowered as range but it was the so-called "mages" themselves who were trash tier. I can only think of two other mages (aside from my character) who weren't total shit.
Quote from ironwoman;1197300:
Thunder is almost useless, at least from the players that I've seen. Not too short charging time, and still mediocre damage. I think thunder needs the most tweak.
Fireball has good aoe damage, but too slow. I wanna see firebolt go down just a bit in damage but much faster casting time, so that you still keep the aoe damage, just more of a sustained damage rather than burst-oriented.
Thunder is much more useful than Fireball. Neither isn't useful.
Quote from Tropa;1197334:
Charging in general needs a smoother animation for Magic and Alchemy, if they'd remove the delay in between charges, the skills would be alot faster.
Alchemists could definitely use smoother, less restrictive animations. Mages have access to Spell Walk.
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frncsjhnhawaii wrote on 2014-02-12 09:03
Quote from Kaeporo;1197452:
Alchemists could definitely use smoother, less restrictive animations. Mages have access to Spell Walk.
Speaking of Alchemy animations, the recovery animation for Water Cannon is as long as its stun and it makes following up near point blank WCs with melee attacks into rock/paper/scissors in comparison to how consistent Lightning Bolt is in that regard. The same can be said about Wind Blast compared to Fire Bolt since I can't switch weapon sets after Wind Blast to follow up with Assault Slash but I could with Fire Bolt. Does Wind Blast's instant load and Water Cannon's use of Chain Cylinder justify their lengthy animations? Would Water Cannon and Wind Blast be broken if their recovery animations were on par with bolt magic?
I haven't played much with Alchemy but it's one thing that forces me to use bolts whenever I'm playing around with Alchemy/Melee combos with both guard cylinder & melee weapon and dual cylinder & dual sword/lance.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-02-12 18:54
Quote from Perfectio;1197285:
Lances are too strong
Without reforges?
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Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-12 21:18
I'm assuming everything has reforges. And granted, it's harder to reforge lances than other stuff but unless you're trying to make a step 6 ele 6 demon lance it's not impossible.
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SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-02-12 21:39
Even without reforges piercing is one of the most overpowered mechanics in the game. The only real difficulty in mabi comes from not one shotting everything, the only thing that can stop this is more prot/defense. What happens when you have a mechanic that literally bypasses 90% of contents protection and defense completely? Suddenly something like tarlach in the MA tourney final rounds becomes as easy to kill as a random mob from an advanced shadow mission.
It's not even an issue of Lances being able to get less max than other skillsets anymore (which is then compensated with piercing), I've seen plenty of giants hit 750+ max with a lance, the most max I've seen with a bow is 800 and I've only seen one player be able to get that much. Even the 2 piercing on my bhafel hunter causes such a huge increase in damage its ridiculous. If they're not gonna nerf piercing they may as well make it so something like every 300 dex grants 1 level of piercing, or include piercing enchants for things other than lances.
I have around 1100 dex and an ele4/4 bhafel hunter and you'd think my magnum would be able to hit more than my friend with an ele5 knight lance in MA tourney, NOPE. It's definitely something that needs to be worked on.
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Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-13 00:32
yeah, piercing was problematic before the "balance" update (har har) and then they BUFFED IT. THEY BUFFED IT. fucking devcat. I've never seen a worse balancing team in any game.
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Syliara wrote on 2014-02-13 17:55
Quote from SlurpTASTY;1197642:
Even without reforges piercing is one of the most overpowered mechanics in the game. The only real difficulty in mabi comes from not one shotting everything, the only thing that can stop this is more prot/defense. What happens when you have a mechanic that literally bypasses 90% of contents protection and defense completely? Suddenly something like tarlach in the MA tourney final rounds becomes as easy to kill as a random mob from an advanced shadow mission.
It's not even an issue of Lances being able to get less max than other skillsets anymore (which is then compensated with piercing), I've seen plenty of giants hit 750+ max with a lance, the most max I've seen with a bow is 800 and I've only seen one player be able to get that much. Even the 2 piercing on my bhafel hunter causes such a huge increase in damage its ridiculous. If they're not gonna nerf piercing they may as well make it so something like every 300 dex grants 1 level of piercing, or include piercing enchants for things other than lances.
I have around 1100 dex and an ele4/4 bhafel hunter and you'd think my magnum would be able to hit more than my friend with an ele5 knight lance in MA tourney, NOPE. It's definitely something that needs to be worked on.
I can actually get around 950 if I really try without buffs. I can hover around 800 at like level 50/1 so its not really that difficult :C