Overrated and Underrated aspects in mabinogi?

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wilson10000 wrote on 2014-05-17 02:38

Quote from Yuuki Asuna;1220583:
My friend uses thunder to stun enemies in lord missions when crisis messes up or when the puppet is getting rek'd. Has a pretty nice niche use in those situations.

Ah I like that method. Thunder also works with crash shot and other skills as well. I just feel the charge time and radius needs to be increased.
Chihaya wrote on 2014-05-17 03:49

Quote from wilson10000;1220584:
Ah I like that method. Thunder also works with crash shot and other skills as well. I just feel the charge time needs to be decreased and radius needs to be increased.

Fixed for you.
Yeah, I agree with wilson on this point. The main reason why I started playing with Fireball and Meteor Strike is because Thunder was only useful for me in opening situations, and if I'm going to attack first, possibly without being undetected, why not a more powerful skill?
I hit 10k fireballs (non-crit) while being lucky if I can hit that much with a 5-charge Thunder. With an upgraded Phoenix Wand, I suddenly have an approx. 7-8 second charge fireball, when it would take 15 seconds for a 5-charge Thunder.

And let's not forget monsters with Mana Deflector.

On topic:
Overrated: Skill Training (People who begs to differ are simply impatient)
Underrated: Raising stats (Players always rush for the special upgrades or reforges, but I think stats are more important...)
Johny wrote on 2014-05-17 04:23

Quote from wilson10000;1220582:
I agree Gunner skills leaves yourself pretty wide open if they don't die after 1-2 hits after the attack. However Thunder also has the same issues when I was a mage. If the 5 charge doesn't kill the monster, then what? All of the mobs will be aggroed to you, and they are spread out. The knockback isn't as predictable as other skills. Sure you can load windmill after, but that won't really solve the problem. However snap cast would be great. That being said, gunner is a lot better then Thunder if the first strike doesn't finish. Gunner can shooting rush, then windmill or switch to puppet or ranged and then use shooting rush again when the 5.5 sec cd is up. Whereas thunder has to take time to charge up the spell unless you have snap cast available, which has a long cool down once used.

I assure you Thunder is a lot slower charge time and lower damage than Gunner when you hybrid. Pure thunder mage(which i tried in the past) doesn't do good damage, and you are aggroed while the mobs are split up. I was a pure mage myself, and I find gunner to be better than Thunder in almost every category. The mage skill set is great, but Thunder needs improvement.

Thunder imo is not meant to be spammed, it's a great opening skill for snap cast, or Charge Thunder > Snap cast TH. But after that it's better to use another mage skill or skill set.

I am very willing to compare reforged thunder to try to clear a room compared to unreforged gunner. I assure you gunner will wipe the floor. It's sad but Thunder just takes too long to charge.

Hmmm, well idk. Thunder has worked wonders for me ever since I got the skill. It functions well as an opening skill and as a defensive skill. While you have thunder in standby you can compliment the skill with other skills like i don't know shooting rush, or if fighting one enemy, maybe focused fist?... As a opening skill I prefer fireball however. As you pointed out earlier, fireball has a larger AoE radius.

I don't like comparing gunner skills with magic because first of all they are two very different skill sets that are based on different combat styles. Second, to be able to "wipe the floor" with shooting rush or bullet storm you must have maxed out stats and all, which I don't.

Finally, none of the intermediate spells are meant to be spammed. That's just silly. They are more meant to be preemptive if anything. Single charge thunder or ice spear is meant to buy you time so you can set up your next attack...be it whatever skill you like...
vayth wrote on 2014-05-17 04:44

Hehe.. I think Thunder is indeed underated. But it's all about playstyle, I guess.

For me, Thunder has always been my favorite spell. The STUN! That's what I like most. It makes it possible to cast 6 charge at the opening (5 +1 while stunned), making it the strongest int magic with the least MP.
The stun is also useful in team and defensive situation, while Fireball is useful against scattered enemies (thanks to its wide radius) and IS for blaze combo and multi-wave enemies.
Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2014-05-17 12:07

The content progression is overrated

It's like a lemming staircase, there's no going back, or updating previous work to make it better.
Fracture wrote on 2014-05-17 18:10

Quote from Froglord of DESTINY!!!;1220627:
The content progression is overrated

It's like a lemming staircase, there's no going back, or updating previous work to make it better.

I wouldn't say that's overrated because nobody would ever dream of claiming this game cares about old content. They'll touch it now and again (usually just to nerf old things when people whine that it's too hard) and then go back to ignoring it. Old content never properly ties in to new content. We get a Will-based skillset, and Alchemy, both of which are marketed as being potentially primary skillsets? Better not touch Transformations and their old purely STR/DEX/INT focused design.
Kaeporo wrote on 2014-05-17 20:25

Thunder was outclassed compared to Ice Spear and Fireball prior to the Zero update. It's most useful when used as a substitute to Way of the Gun in conjunction with Bullet Storm using Snap Cast. Neither Fireball or Thunder compare in usefulness to Ice Spear barring specific situations.

I agree that Thunder is underrated at present but it was largely inferior from G9-G16.

Underrated: Reforge versatility
Overrated: Reforge effectiveness
Tropa wrote on 2014-05-17 20:41
This topic on Thunder really makes me wanna run a mission with thunder and see for myself if it's viable or not.

Only thing I use it for is rafting.

Edit: I used it in ToA Hardmode, it has pretty decent damage(223 Magic Attack) and great range.

Only problems I have with Thunder combat is...
- Casting time is slow and the effect radius is kinda small
- Spellwalk drains too much Stamina and Mana
- Shockwave has a pretty extensive cooldown
Kaeporo wrote on 2014-05-17 22:08

Quote from Tropa;1220668:
This topic of Thunder really makes me wanna run a mission with thunder and see for myself if it's viable or not.

Only thing I use it for is rafting.

Pro:
Heavy and consistent area damage (comparable to Fireball).
Lengthy Stun Duration (7 seconds)
Great Range (2000)

Con:
Small area of effect (500 units)
Limited target count
Scatters enemies

Places to use Thunder: Rafting, Falias, Martial Arts Competition
Best tactic to use w/Thunder: Group Thunder Barrage
1. Mages fully load Thunder.
2. Puppeteer groups enemies w/Crisis.
3. Mages attack w/Thunder.
4. Mages activate Snap Cast.
5. Mages load/attack w/Thunder.

You're looking at a fairly consistent ~40k damage per player. This tactic is very useful in the Martial Arts Competition.
Chiis wrote on 2014-05-17 22:22

Over rated: Something is black omg omg worth more!!!
something not black under rated :C
Zeo wrote on 2014-05-17 22:53

Overrated: People complaining about if skills is overpowered and demand it be nerfed. I'm sorry but it seem to be a trend in Mabination, and people try to nitpick on the reasons why certain skills need to be nerfed even though they don't need it. (Lullaby is one of the good examples I should point out, same for Catering).

Not to add... Meteor Strike; people still think it's OP not thinking about cooldown which killed the usefulness of that skill. I can deal same amount of damage I can hit with r1 critical Meteor hit within a minute. If I was DevCat, I'd remove the cooldown, give Meteor Strike a longer cast time (45 seconds) and have it cost more MP.

Underrated: The elf's speed ability to move and the ability to hide. No one care about utility nowadays. I've seen that some people said the elves are really overpowered, but I quite disagreed, because we don't get Lance combat, and we also required slightly longer cooldown to use the Melee skills. Humans are on par with us in term of archery and magic because we only get like... 30 more dex. and int. compared to humans, and it's not that much of a difference.
wilson10000 wrote on 2014-05-17 22:55

Quote from Kaeporo;1220671:
Pro:
1. Mages fully load Thunder.
2. Puppeteer groups enemies w/Crisis.
3. Mages attack w/Thunder.
4. Mages activate Snap Cast.
5. Mages load/attack w/Thunder.

Mobs frozen from pet
6. Mages attack with bolt to switch to Gun.
7. Mages use Bullet storm
8. Mages use way of gun to bullet storm again.
9. Mages Shooting rush.

If the targets are frozen in place, i believe TH x2 > Bullet storm x2 is one of the most damage output combinations that's fast.

Quote from Zeo;1220678:
Overrated: People complaining about if skills is overpowered and demand it be nerfed.

Underrated: The elf's speed ability to move and the ability to hide. No one care about utility nowadays.

I agree elf speed is underrated, I wish humans had that.
vayth wrote on 2014-05-18 06:10

I think we need a separated thread for Thunder now.

Quote from wilson10000;1220679:
Mobs frozen from pet
6. Mages attack with bolt to switch to Gun.
7. Mages use Bullet storm
8. Mages use way of gun to bullet storm again.
9. Mages Shooting rush.

If the targets are frozen in place, i believe TH x2 > Bullet storm x2 is one of the most damage output combinations that's fast.

btw, can you make a video about combination between magic and gun, please?
vayth wrote on 2014-05-18 06:10

I think we need a separated thread for Thunder now.

Quote from wilson10000;1220679:
Mobs frozen from pet
6. Mages attack with bolt to switch to Gun.
7. Mages use Bullet storm
8. Mages use way of gun to bullet storm again.
9. Mages Shooting rush.

If the targets are frozen in place, i believe TH x2 > Bullet storm x2 is one of the most damage output combinations that's fast.

btw, can you make a video about combination between magic and gun, please?

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