JinNJuice wrote on 2014-06-24 03:42
What the fuck? Now that someone has bothered to explain Lynn's gameplay, I seriously feel there is no place for Lann now.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-06-24 04:01
Quote from JinNJuice;1227560:
What the fuck? Now that someone has bothered to explain Lynn's gameplay, I seriously feel there is no place for Lann now.
^ Exactly how I feel.
TLCBonaparte wrote on 2014-06-24 16:48
It's like each new class just beat down Lann a bit more lol. Although from what I can tell Lynn's main damage is from stacks of petal which she then activates, so... quite similar to scythe Evie? If it's burst dps I don't think she's competing with Lann.
Syliara wrote on 2014-06-24 23:00
Quote from JinNJuice;1227560:
What the fuck? Now that someone has bothered to explain Lynn's gameplay, I seriously feel there is no place for Lann now.
Quote from Darkboy132;1227562:
^ Exactly how I feel.
Quote from TLCBonaparte;1227644:
It's like each new class just beat down Lann a bit more lol. Although from what I can tell Lynn's main damage is from stacks of petal which she then activates, so... quite similar to scythe Evie? If it's burst dps I don't think she's competing with Lann.
It is a hit and run type of combat, its more closely related to something like scythe evie than lann. TLCBonaparte was correct in that it really has nothing to do with lann. You guys need to stop thinking that everything has something to do with the downfall of lann and that lann is horrible when he really isnt. Lann is a class that takes a skilled player to become great and if you cannot achieve that it means that its not the classes fault it is only your fault. Lann could use a rework but it is by no means a bad class to play and you guys need to stop thinking that. Stop making baseless assumptions and QQing about every fking thing nexon releases that it is "Omg so op compared to lann wth are you thinking nexon" when in reality it really isnt and if theres any real issue here its that you guys dont know how to play the class and then blame the class for your shortcomings. I'm getting tired of coming into every thread in this section and only seeing the both of you QQing about how lann is so underpowered and needs a buff while everything else is so ridiculously overpowered and needs a nerf.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-06-25 00:50
Quote from Nui;1227853:
Text.
We both have every right to be mad. I've been playing since closed beta but as the game progressed every other character got some gimmick that makes Lann look crappy, such as better survivability, speed, or even higher damage output. I officially gave him up ever since they introduced Hurk because he's basically Lann 9000.1. I've even outdamaged Lanns with 16k attack with just 12k~ on my Hurk.
I've even heard solo end-game Lann players like junyoop struggle with him, whereas other characters take down the same boss with similar stats more faster and more efficiently.
Even if it takes "great skill" it doesn't change the fact that Lann has one too many flaws.
Syliara wrote on 2014-06-25 01:30
Quote from Darkboy132;1227884:
We both have every right to be mad. I've been playing since closed beta but as the game progressed every other character got some gimmick that makes Lann look crappy, such as better survivability, speed, or even higher damage output. I officially gave him up ever since they introduced Hurk because he's basically Lann 9000.1. I've even outdamaged Lanns with 16k attack with just 12k~ on my Hurk.
I've even heard solo end-game Lann players like junyoop struggle with him, whereas other characters take down the same boss with similar stats more faster and more efficiently.
Even if it takes "great skill" it doesn't change the fact that Lann has one too many flaws.
I have been playing since beta as well, and as the game progressed yes they have seemed to forget about lann in some parts, however even so people are still able to top the dps charts with him or to solo any and all content with him. The only characters I can see that could affect how u look at lann in any way would be Vella (because its basically female lann with some upgrades) or hurk (because his dps is stupid and he is actually pretty OP). However every fking update you guys make a huge deal about how lann is underpowered and try to compare that update with lann as if u can somehow actually compare it. You need to stop trying to compare every game update with lann as if it is comparable, whenever honestly its like looking at a shiny new toy and thinking your older unique toy is crap in comparison when in reality its just a different toy.
I have seen multiple lanns top the dps charts because they are good at wat they do, I knew a lann a year or so ago that was a spear lann who could top the dps charts all the time, and he was able to solo glas the first week of its release as a spear lann.
Honestly it just seems like you want a character like hurk where end game damage is basically handed to you on a silver platter without any actual effort. Make your lann good by actually being good at the character, instead of wanting to be able to top the charts without trying.
Lann is fine as he is, he could use a bit more damage here and there or a bit more survivability here and there but as he is he is balanced. Swords has great survivability with decent dps, spears has great dps with low survivability. This is how it is supposed to be because there has to be a tradeoff somewhere instead of something like hurk where his survivability is ridiculous along with his dps.
In the end you are mad for all the wrong reasons.
JinNJuice wrote on 2014-06-29 01:11
Those are some unfair arguements. Everyone is up agains the same exact things, unless you look at the characters themselves and their "role" mechanics. Otherwise, they still take the basic knowledge of the enemies, in correlation of the characters... is what I'd like to say, but there's obviously no consideration of specifics. These newer content are doing more and more of whatever they want. All of the characters take player skill to even remotely work, but some are very blatantly obviously more rewarding than others, especially in the end.
And let's face it. They ARE doing everything to make Lann look like crap, whether they're trying to or not. The Koreans STILL make a joke out of that. The others can obtain better base stats for survivability and damage output. The others have hardcoded mechanics that are given more range, speed, damage, and/or invulnerable frames. Honestly, a Spear Lann can only top the DPS count if people let him. He doesn't have a utility to work on his own, like others do.
But let's make some glaring observations. The main feature of a Sword Lann is Slip Dash. Yeah? Majority of the other characters have moves that do better than Slip Dash can, such as Karok's Absorb Shock, Vella's Cross Cut or Glint, Hurk's Revenge or Deflection, Kai... just Kai, Fiona's Perfect Guard, Evie's Blink, And now Lynn's "thunderleg" or dodge that is exactly like Vella's Glint. Slip dash itself is problematic on is own, as well. There are two moments that he remains stationary, which are before and after the dash, three times if adding nimble dash. Those moments of immobility will get him stuck in the poor collision detection of this game, therefore having him rely on invul frames. Though, nowadays boss attacks have longer hit frames than everyone's invul frames. I see why they call it SLIP Dash now. He has one of the most difficult evasive maneuver of all that are designed for evasion.
Going back to the possibility for a Spear Lann to top DPS, the main feature of a Spear Lann is Grand Hurricane. Right? He has no way to create an exposure out of the enemy on his own. He has to wait until either a party member creates the exposure or the boss exposes itself. Otherwise, he takes the risk of eating multiple hits to death in one moment, due to lack of invul frames from a dodge or knockdown. Therefore, obviously a Spear Lann does not take that approach. What else is a Spear Lann to do then? He was obviously designed to perform constant and persistent offensives with the ability to regain stamina and increase ATT. When everything works against him without giving him any real personal gain or mechanical advantage, he's just constantly hurting himself. He is, in fact, more useless than others as a team.
And those things are his main features. It should be obvious by now, but his other features do not compare. The closest other feature that Lann has is Gliding Fury, which is an overly risky move to perform. This isn't even considering that it requires a smash attack to inflict a critical hit. The move Gliding Fury itself doesn't cancel smash attacks quickly enough, and when it finally does, again there are two moments of stationary placement, before and after the strike. The difference this time is that there are no invulnerable frames, not even super armor, so he can be hit out of this attack before he strikes. And throughout the entire move, he is completely exposed to attacks, due to the times that he does not move at all. And though the range can be great, the reach beyond his body is terrible. He is forced to constantly charge into danger to make use of his moves, with only crappy methods to counteract danger. Not to mention, the damage is mediorcre, and worse for Lightning Fury.
But sure. Lann is fine the way he is. It's not like his things can never work. However, that is not the big picture here. Lann is actually lowtier. He lacks in many ways under survivability and DPS. As a Sword Lann, his attacks are slower with less range, and his only maneuver hinders himself. As a Spear Lann, his means of high damage take a while to start, again it has less range, and he doesn't even have a decent evasive maneuver. Lann in general, he does not contribute anything to a team. Comparing to the other characters, he is trading far too much for very little gain.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-06-29 01:43
Should I point out how shitty Spear Lann's dodge is? Its a roll with 0.3 sec invulnerability that occurs IN THE MIDDLE of the roll, takes very long to execute, and increases Lann's hitbox width that makes him more vulnerable.
Now lets compare that to Glint/Thunderleg. They're both 0.42 sec invulnerability starting at the beginning, takes a lot less time to execute, and even has more range and spammability.
Unfair to Lann.
To further add insult to injury:
[video=youtube;knKPfIIS8ZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knKPfIIS8ZY[/video]
[video=youtube;5dhTBvgEfus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhTBvgEfus[/video]
Both played by junyoop. The Lynn has 19.4k attack, 7k defense, and 46 attack speed. The Lann has 18.8k attack, 9k defense, and 43 attack speed. See how:
-Lynn can dodge like no tomorrow? Lann only has one dodge.
-Lynn has opportunities to attack while the boss is attacking; Lann can't exploit that and has to wait for an opening.
-Lann isn't as versatile as Lynn, using only a few smashes and one SP skill.
-Lynn BARELY getting hit. Lann keeps getting smacked around.
-It takes twelve more minutes for Lann to finish after Lynn.
-The comparison in these videos obviously show how Lynn makes Lann look shitty?