[Mabinogi-JP] Regeneration - Ninjutsu Update (Consolidated and Organized)

• Kapra wrote on 2014-07-22 20:51

  Quote from Timefall;1233864:

  Others wanna skip to the end, so they spend 3 days camping raccoons, and then complain that they have to spend so much time killing raccoons. -_-

  
  We shouldn't condemn people for wanting to grind a skill. The complaint isn't that they have to use it on raccoons, its that the training isn't as hard as CP training. They traded hard skill training for monotonous skill training. I don't think the fault is at the people who want to work on their skills.
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1233939:

  I think they should change the overall aspect of Hazy Smokescreen to make players immune to attack when inside it and obviously put some aftereffect that prevents players from benefiting another one, rather than lower defense. It makes a lot more sense and we already have enough defense piercing skills.
  
  Also the targeting mechanics of Charging Shuriken and Shadow Assault should be easier and Shadow Assault should be an AoE and not Single Target. SA feels like more of a Wind Blast, really.

  
  As someone who has used the skillsets, I disagree with all of that except Charging Shuriken's targetability. Shadow Assault is already fine as it is, I don't think it needs any changes. Hazy Smokescreen shouldn't give you invulnerability, that doesn't sound balanced at all even if it was a 1-second AoE invulnerability. It's already bad enough that skills have invulnerability frames.
  
  What Smokescreen needs is its AoE more clearly defined (its hard to tell where the screen starts and ends right now) and a protection debuff rather than a defense buff.
  

  Quote from Lingshen;1233932:

  Like a single charge is practically a slightly stronger Windmill, give that like a 20 second cooldown or something. Every extra charge adds another 20 with a total of 300 seconds cooldown at 15 charges.

  
  The idea of an increasing cooldown is a good idea. But I think it shouldn't be +20 per charge, a scaling cooldown would be better.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-07-22 21:23

  Quote from Kapra;1233961:

  As someone who has used the skillsets, I disagree with all of that except Charging Shuriken's targetability. Shadow Assault is already fine as it is, I don't think it needs any changes. Hazy Smokescreen shouldn't give you invulnerability, that doesn't sound balanced at all even if it was a 1-second AoE invulnerability. It's already bad enough that skills have invulnerability frames.
  
  What Smokescreen needs is its AoE more clearly defined (its hard to tell where the screen starts and ends right now) and a protection debuff rather than a defense buff.

  
  
  Shadow Assault strikes me as odd for a 1:1 skill, despite being a whirlwind. My Pierrot Marionette has a whirlwind attack and it's an aoe. The fact that you have to hit the skill hotkey twice and it only hits the nearest target makes it very difficult to handle and even moreso difficult to grasp, since no other skill works like that; does the tutorial even tell you that too?
  
  Hazy Smokescreen shouldn't work as a Defense cutter though; we have more than enough skills that function like that and it doesn't even make any sense. Invulnerability, if not aggro dropper, makes a lot more sense. And a small invulnerability isn't broken compared to Lullaby or Rain Casting, and Windmill invulnerability (disregarding the -10% HP) wasn't even broken in the past.
• drezzt wrote on 2014-07-22 22:06
  Anyone know the repair costs on the shurikens? Couldn't find them anywhere I looked. Need them for theory crafting purposes.
• Kapra wrote on 2014-07-22 22:38

  Quote from Darkboy132;1233967:

  Shadow Assault strikes me as odd for a 1:1 skill, despite being a whirlwind. My Pierrot Marionette has a whirlwind attack and it's an aoe. The fact that you have to hit the skill hotkey twice and it only hits the nearest target makes it very difficult to handle and even moreso difficult to grasp, since no other skill works like that; does the tutorial even tell you that too?

  
  No idea, our JP translator is rarely available. To be honest, Shadow Assault isnt' nearly as complicated as it sounds. And I don't think skills should be edited to match their skill animation, the other way around would make more sense. The skill is fine as it is in my opinion. If anything, the only change I would make is nerf its effectiveness at rF and keep r1 the way it is, so there is a more gradual increase in useless as you rank.
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1233967:

  Hazy Smokescreen shouldn't work as a Defense cutter though; we have more than enough skills that function like that and it doesn't even make any sense. Invulnerability, if not aggro dropper, makes a lot more sense. And a small invulnerability isn't broken compared to Lullaby or Rain Casting, and Windmill invulnerability (disregarding the -10% HP) wasn't even broken in the past.

  
  Why does Invulnerability make more sense? "Small" invulnerability or not is broken. You should never be given complete immunity to damage. I'd rather they make this skill confuse aggro like Rain Casting (rather than Rain Casting do that), that would make the most sense. But people hate that kind of effect, so this is the next best thing. While you're in Smokescreen, you're vulnerable and have no idea where your enemy is, no idea what to protect yourself from. A defense/protection debuff makes sense in my eyes.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-07-22 23:19

  Quote from Kapra;1233974:

  No idea, our JP translator is rarely available. To be honest, Shadow Assault isnt' nearly as complicated as it sounds. And I don't think skills should be edited to match their skill animation, the other way around would make more sense. The skill is fine as it is in my opinion. If anything, the only change I would make is nerf its effectiveness at rF and keep r1 the way it is, so there is a more gradual increase in useless as you rank.

  
  
  Just how effective is Shadow Assault? I can only see the hide being effective, but not very useful in actual combat, especially with a 120% damage multiplier.
  
  

  Quote from Kapra;1233974:

  Why does Invulnerability make more sense? "Small" invulnerability or not is broken. You should never be given complete immunity to damage. I'd rather they make this skill confuse aggro like Rain Casting (rather than Rain Casting do that), that would make the most sense. But people hate that kind of effect, so this is the next best thing. While you're in Smokescreen, you're vulnerable and have no idea where your enemy is, no idea what to protect yourself from. A defense/protection debuff makes sense in my eyes.

  
  
  Because smokescreen is mostly used for defense, and like you said an unskilled person can't see through the smokescreen so they don't know where to attack in it. Even so, there ARE skills that ignore invulnerability, like Self-Destruct or any of Grim Reaper's attacks for example.
  
  I don't see a problem with aggro confusion with smokescreen. It doesn't last very long and it could be coded to have enemies immediately re-aggro once the smokescreen wears off. Really, Rain Casting shouldn't have that effect, and Emergency Escape shouldn't exist.
  
  It's only half true that you're vulnerable in smokescreen, because a skilled person can still react. Heck even a blind person can still detect their enemies and counterattack. Either way I don't think we need more defense/protection piercing skills, especially when they can stack; Smokescreen (-20) + Spinning Uppercut (-30) + Bone Dragon (-15) + Frozen Blast (-22) + Level 9 Piercing (-80) = -167 Defense.
• TakeAseatBro wrote on 2014-07-23 05:15
  I'm wondering how much NX the 2x2 bags will be. Anyone know?
• Stevenjr626 wrote on 2014-07-23 08:33

  Quote from ironwoman;1233017:

  I didn't say it was bad, I just think it won't be a thing that would replace main classes at all. Think of it this way: is fighter strong? It can be. Is it really the best main class? No. Same thing with ninja.
  Let's take it step by step. I'm at a position where I'm closer to str cap than you are, and further from will, for about the right amount, so my rasenzan would do about the same damage. I mean, sure I can use it in missions, but why would I use it when my range and lance would hit higher and clear faster anyway? Even without higher elemental reforge, the case would still hold true.
  If the person using the skillset is one of those people that have good enough enchants but no good reforge (even less than what I use), then I could see this skillset being useful. But against fully-reforged other classes? I'd say it'd lose out, just like how puppet starts to fall off in reforges. The fact that these won't have elemental reforges puts their damage potential behind, just like how dual guns' damage reforge is still inferior to mid-elemental reforge. The elemental enchants also start shadowing over the skillsets' high multiplier, as most elemental-reforged weapons will still show higher damage on the character screen, and elemental modifiers would make the skill multiplier to be about the same as ninja skills (ex: elemental 6 smash = ~900%, elemental 6 windmill = ~370~90%). It's kinda like how we see skills like magnum do more than flash launcher, even though magnum has way less multiplier. It is true that it'd have about 80% of the stats str + int has to provide, but that 20% is still a big damage chunked, significant enough to make noticeable damage differences.
  
  In that sense, by my definition of "main class", which would indicate what my strongest classes are, this class will not be one of them, even at end game (or rather, especially end-game). I also mentioned that it's much better than the pre-vamp alchemy. I didn't say the class was shit, I just don't think it's that great of a class. It's a decent class I guess. Hence why I said it's not worth being main class, it will never be that class where you start seeing ridiculous numbers compared to other classes. I'd consider using this class as a secondary, but never as the main.
  
  On the other hand, this could also work as your "clean up class", similar to how gunner is used for clean up in many cases. For me though, I still probably wouldn't bother, crash shot or lance/bow windmill still does the job.

  
  
  Nicely said. Couldnt agree more. ^
• Kapra wrote on 2014-07-23 08:48

  Quote from TakeAseatBro;1234041:

  I'm wondering how much NX the 2x2 bags will be. Anyone know?

  
  They're no longer for sale in JP so I have no idea. Either way, NX prices usually do vary between servers.
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1233977:

  Just how effective is Shadow Assault? I can only see the hide being effective, but not very useful in actual combat, especially with a 120% damage multiplier.

  
  For it's function, its perfect in both damage and usage. Think of it as Shuriken's version of Bullet Slide, a different method to achieve the same thing.
• Twin wrote on 2014-07-23 14:47
  I've heard you could use Shuriken with other one-handed weapons. Is this true?
• Nightmare wrote on 2014-07-23 14:53

  Quote from Twin;1234099:

  I've heard you could use Shuriken with other one-handed weapons. Is this true?

  
  
  I really doubt it, but go ahead and try later today.
• epicmiro wrote on 2014-07-23 15:29
  Looking trough the data files, it seems like they reduced cooldowns (so maybe also training req?)
  
  This is what i pulled from data for r1:
  Kunai rush: 6sec cooldown
  Charging Shuriken: 4 sec
  shadow bind 10 sec
  stealth (?) : 50 sec
  blasting: 11sec
  smokescreen: 11,5
  sakura shower: 5min
• epicmiro wrote on 2014-07-23 15:29
  Looking trough the data files, it seems like they reduced cooldowns (so maybe also training req?)
  
  This is what i pulled from data for r1:
  Kunai rush: 6sec cooldown
  Charging Shuriken: 4 sec
  shadow bind 10 sec
  stealth (?) : 50 sec
  blasting: 11sec
  smokescreen: 11,5
  sakura shower: 5min
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/anMPf/3611ff4c16.png]
• Lingshen wrote on 2014-07-23 15:42

  Quote from epicmiro;1234115:

  Looking trough the data files, it seems like they reduced cooldowns (so maybe also training req?)
  
  This is what i pulled from data for r1:
  Kunai rush: 6sec cooldown
  Charging Shuriken: 4 sec
  shadow bind 10 sec
  stealth (?) : 50 sec
  blasting: 11sec
  smokescreen: 11,5
  sakura shower: 5min
  
  

  
  
  Those are pretty good. Makes for a nice fast paced combat style. Though I feel like Charging Shuriken shoulda stayed a bit higher because it has some high multipliers plus it has pretty good range. Shadow Bind... Mmm I feel like 15 Sec. woulda been better. Thats one of those skills that could be abused in some way.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-23 16:13
  That seems a bit overpowered LOL
• epicmiro wrote on 2014-07-23 16:16
  Ikr, i hope the pack files are correct nonetheless (4sec 1000% full charge skill? count me in >:D)