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Zey wrote on 2014-12-04 09:51
Hello, I'm an elven archer (total level 1100, 400 max damage, 600 DEX) and as the title says, I'm tired of archery. I'm looking into changing my character, I'm really stuck deciding as it's pretty specific, I need to match my partner.
Although I do more damage than my partner who's the same level as me, I keep missing. I used to have a human warrior on Mabinogi EU who always worked with her in teamwork, timing each of our actions together to make combos, but I can no longer do that, my elf misses at very bad times, I get elf lag that stun me in place for 3+ seconds. It's completely unreliable for us. I'm also disappointed there's no archery renewal in the horizon, but I'm not blaming the system, it's me who doesn't fit, or uh, me who doesn't want to put up with it anymore.
I have 1248 AP spent, and 2200 AP unspent. If I were to reset my Crash Shot, Magnum Shot, Bow Mastery and Ranged Attack with the free reset capsules from the ninja update, it'll be 2850 AP unspent. Plus, I can rebirth, so make that 3000 AP.
As I said above, my partner is at the same level and AP available as me. She likes her skills, most of them are close combat with some life skills for DEX so she mainly plays melee. Eventually she wants to do ninja and fighter skills, with a very slight interest in puppetry skills, but we don't know how viable it is toward our goal:
We want to duo the erinn competition tournament by ourselves, just the two of us, but we don't know what path to take in order to work toward that goal. I don't know what to do with my 3000 AP to accomplish that, and she doesn't know how good ninja & fighter skills will do in the tournament. Please, any directions would be really appreciated. :bow:
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Jake wrote on 2014-12-04 14:01
For duoing MA, crisis, rising action (edited in, thanks ironwoman), blaze, way of the gun, rain casting, and hydra are probably the best options (not all at once i guess, and you'd have to combine skills like crisis and blaze just to be a bit more specific)
Fighter can be pretty decent for boss round, as can ninja. But they fall short in the long run. Ninja damage output in final round is pretty horrid except for sakura abyss. And fighter on its own - cooldowns. But with high enough str and will (probably near caps) two fully charged sakura abyss could probably take out 3/4 of the final round bosses hp, and be ready to go for the next round.
I too dropped archery due to its mechanics even though i had high damage output. I switched to a gunner/ninja combo and it's probably the best decision i've made. But yeah i can't solo MA with them or anything like that.
Anyway, crisis + blaze with proper stats and decent gear can probably carry you all the way to final round. Though having "clean up" skills ready to go for when things mess up / damage output from blaze isn't high enough is pretty necessary. This is where i like to pull out guns, but I guess anything would work. You guys could probably even rotate crising/blazing (not sure though, i don't use either skill myself).
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-04 18:51
First, it should be known, that for Elves in general, archery will be the skillset they're best at. Even though you might not like it, you might have to stick with it. The person above actually had a capped dex, and switched to something else, but that was his choice, and most people who have dex capped will use archery. I highly advise against resetting your skills, as the stats from it will still most likely help other classes. Also, know that you're not restricted to just using bows - you can use puppet with it, fighter with it, gunner with it, etc. But for right now, for what it's worth, you should look into getting sniper title if you haven't already, and hitting the mid-600 or 700 damage mark.
I know you said you don't want to do archery, but here's my reasoning: it'll help for other things. You said you want to duo NPC with your friend? One thing should be clear: you two can't duo right now, you two will need much more invested to make this possible. A classic duo has a person who puppets and a person who blazes to follow it up. You first crisis the mobs then use rising action (although climactic crash can still be used and not interrupt blaze), and with strong enough blaze, it should really make it super easy until the final round, where you can't really one shot anymore. For the final round, you can set up a cloud and if you want to take it long way, you could just get hydra transmutation and play dead till they're dead. More realistic answer would be set up a cloud and use your WoTG.
With these things being said, it'd be foolish to reset your archery skills, because as an elf, dex is where you'll get your puppet damage. So unfortunately, I can't tell you to stop using archery because you'd essentially be hindering your character's combat ability. I should tell you though, to rank life skills up first, then go into puppet. Then go into int-giving skills, then gunner.
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Jake wrote on 2014-12-04 19:42
Just adding on to clarify that you wanted to drop archery -- yeah like ironwoman said, don't reset the skills (even if you don't want to actively use the skillset). I didn't even think about mentioning that in my post, but it is in fact a very good idea to keep them ranked. They give a ton of dex, alongside the talent rank stat bonuses. Using WoTG and stuff statless would be extremely ineffective. You guys won't be able to achieve your listed goal for a while, you'll definitely need relatively well progressed characters, but it'll be worth it in the end.
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Oberynn wrote on 2014-12-05 00:22
Even if you reset all your skills and became a blaze powerhouse, your partner will be the one not able to support you and I'm guessing that's no good either.
The best thing for you to do is to keep going with archery and try things that will alleviate your frustrations like an effective range reforge bow with faster speed or just getting a whole lot more damage in general, because with 400 max you're not any more effective than a statless total level 1 player with two rainbow beams. You're not going to be duoing npc anywhere near 1.1k total outside of extremely specific builds that require lots of gear/ap investment and depend on your partner doing the same so just give that up and join parties or run content appropriate to your combat capabilities.
If you really must disregard archery, then try magic/alchemy for fast gains.
If you really must duo npc, the only short term option that doesn't involve both you and your partner spending thousands of AP in blaze/puppets and their very expensive related equipment is to just get r1 hydra and all related skills/gear and cheese the entire thing that way if you don't mind your mabinogi experience consisting of sitting around and doing nothing.
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Zey wrote on 2014-12-05 13:31
Thank you all for your replies! I honestly didn't expect so much support.
Archery is really something I don't want to do anymore. I had a go again yesterday helping leveling my friend's floral fairy, really irritates me to see myself having to summon an AoE pet to fix a miss. Even if I was to put up with it, then there's elf lag, and I don't want to risk myself getting banned using mods over it.
I know you guys tell me to keep my skills for the stats, to be honest if they weren't free capsules I probably wouldn't do it, but if I was going to become a "blazer" it would seem like a good opportunity to do it since I wouldn't be using those archery skills anymore and would be a while till I rank them again for the DEX when I'm done with INT skills, that's my logic at least. Not only that, they're not so AP efficient DEX skills compared to Life skills, especially Crash Shot.
Quote from Oberynn;1256200:
You're not going to be duoing npc anywhere near 1.1k total outside of extremely specific builds that require lots of gear/ap investment and depend on your partner doing the same so just give that up and join parties or run content appropriate to your combat capabilities.
If you really must duo npc, the only short term option that doesn't involve both you and your partner spending thousands of AP in blaze/puppets and their very expensive related equipment is to just get r1 hydra and all related skills/gear and cheese the entire thing that way if you don't mind your mabinogi experience consisting of sitting around and doing nothing.
It is something for long term, I guess me wanting to spend 3000 gave the impression I want it right now, sorry. We are joining parties, duoing is not something we can or want to do right
now, it's something we want to work towards the future. I DO want to spend thousands of AP and work my butt off to get that gear in order to duo the erinn competition, it excites me thinking about duoing, but we don't know where to go from here, which goes to what Jake said:
Quote from Jake;1256175:
Fighter can be pretty decent for boss round, as can ninja. But they fall short in the long run. Ninja damage output in final round is pretty horrid except for sakura abyss. And fighter on its own - cooldowns. But with high enough str and will (probably near caps) two fully charged sakura abyss could probably take out 3/4 of the final round bosses hp, and be ready to go for the next round.
So ninja and fighter aren't so viable in the tournament. But if she was to have high ninja damage she would also have high STR. Is there any way to incorporate melee skills into the tournament?
From what you guys told me the good builds for the martial art tournament are:
Crisis, Rising Action, Climatic Crash
Blaze
Hydra
Are there any other good ways to clear it? And how would you include all of these options in a duo? Ironwoman mentioned (P1) Crisis > (P1) Rising Action > (P2) Blaze, but I want to hear more. :D
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alwmiioktm wrote on 2014-12-05 16:02
Raincast + r1 hydra w/ master title is just cheesing it but works to a point, not speedy but efficient. And the whole issue with mods isn't really a big a deal, its kind of on the mindset of dont ask dont tell and never post screenshots on nexon forums. Very convenient though and i recommend to alleviate quite a bit of lag related issues. Jumping straight into blaze would take at least a magic attack reforge savage icewand and blaze reforged gloves with a high level crisis reforge (18+ and I recommend master title). You mentioned your dislike for aoe summon pets, ironically though that's a very beneficial tool in soloing any content. If you did blaze + Crisis expect you and your partner to be glass cannons until you get some skill ranks and stats up.
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Jake wrote on 2014-12-05 17:01
Quote from Zey;1256247:
So ninja and fighter aren't so viable in the tournament. But if she was to have high ninja damage she would also have high STR. Is there any way to incorporate melee skills into the tournament?
Fighter is pretty viable at final boss round (arguably one of the very few places fighter has potential to be amazing) but it's more for support such as pinning one enemy for an extended period of time with pummel. Which has a large cooldown, so its use with strictly duoing is probably limited.
Ninja can be useful for aggro drop, but rain casting is a much better way to manage aggro. Also sakura abyss can be REALLY good, but that's just sakura abyss, and only final boss round. Throughout the rest of the tournament, ninja can be very, very good, but crisis + blaze blaze is (again, arguably) probably the best.
sakura abyss:
[video=youtubeold;PqG7J8-puuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqG7J8-puuQ[/video]
Melee skills? Lance charge is pretty great, and smash is good as long as you aren't interrupting anyone and do high damage with it.
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Zey wrote on 2014-12-05 19:41
Quote from alwmiioktm;1256251:
Raincast + r1 hydra w/ master title is just cheesing it but works to a point, not speedy but efficient. And the whole issue with mods isn't really a big a deal, its kind of on the mindset of dont ask dont tell and never post screenshots on nexon forums. Very convenient though and i recommend to alleviate quite a bit of lag related issues. Jumping straight into blaze would take at least a magic attack reforge savage icewand and blaze reforged gloves with a high level crisis reforge (18+ and I recommend master title). You mentioned your dislike for aoe summon pets, ironically though that's a very beneficial tool in soloing any content. If you did blaze + Crisis expect you and your partner to be glass cannons until you get some skill ranks and stats up.
Oh no I don't dislike AoE summon pets, haha. I just dislike the fact I have to summon one to fix my archery misses/lags. I'd rather have them summoned for increasing time gaps to allow more combos, not fix a silly miss.
I'll do some more research into what you mentioned about elf lag, maybe it is fixable.
I don't want to cheese it, wouldn't bring that accomplishment~ Definitely looking more into the puppetry and magic combos mentioned, but are such high ranked reforges a must to clear the competition in general, or you meant it's a what-if we try to do it now?
Quote from Jake;1256255:
Fighter is pretty viable at final boss round (arguably one of the very few places fighter has potential to be amazing) but it's more for support such as pinning one enemy for an extended period of time with pummel. Which has a large cooldown, so its use with strictly duoing is probably limited.
Ninja can be useful for aggro drop, but rain casting is a much better way to manage aggro. Also sakura abyss can be REALLY good, but that's just sakura abyss, and only final boss round. Throughout the rest of the tournament, ninja can be very, very good, but crisis + blaze blaze is (again, arguably) probably the best.
Melee skills? Lance charge is pretty great, and smash is good as long as you aren't interrupting anyone and do high damage with it.
She doesn't like how fighter is viable in very few places, and sakura abyss takes too long to cast (video was pretty though!), so it's decided both of them it's something she wants to do later on, as in,
when we get to a point we can farm the martial art competition and are struggling with the last phase.
So far what sparkles for us the most is some sort of combination with puppetry and magic.
Jake, you mentioned crisis + blaze blaze, as in use crisis, blaze them, then another crisis and blaze? Both specializing in magic but having crisis ranked for control. Is that a thing or just a waste of AP?
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Xemekong wrote on 2014-12-05 19:48
For duoing the last round of NPC you can try raincasting(r1) then do the basic duo archer/melee, support shot > smash/lance charge. For the rounds before that, you can both try to get crisis/blaze to r1 then alternate crisis >blaze with each other. Another method i have in mind would be one of you get gm bard and lullaby everything and just do same thing as i said earlier which is support shot >smash/lance charge each npc individually.
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Jake wrote on 2014-12-05 19:51
Quote from Zey;1256269:
Oh no I don't dislike AoE summon pets, haha. I just dislike the fact I have to summon one to fix my archery misses/lags. I'd rather have them summoned for increasing time gaps to allow more combos, not fix a silly miss.
I'll do some more research into what you mentioned about elf lag, maybe it is fixable.
I don't want to cheese it, wouldn't bring that accomplishment~ Definitely looking more into the puppetry and magic combos mentioned, but are such high ranked reforges a must to clear the competition in general, or you meant it's a what-if we try to do it now?
She doesn't like how fighter is viable in very few places, and sakura abyss takes too long to cast (video was pretty though!), so it's decided both of them it's something she wants to do later on, as in, when we get to a point we can farm the martial art competition and are struggling with the last phase.
So far what sparkles for us the most is some sort of combination with puppetry and magic.
Jake, you mentioned crisis + blaze blaze, as in use crisis, blaze them, then another crisis and blaze? Both specializing in magic but having crisis ranked for control. Is that a thing or just a waste of AP?
Well doing that with sakura abyss probably wouldn't be possible until "later on" anyway. So with crisis and blaze im not the best person to ask because i detest puppetry and haven't done anything with magic, but i am under the impression that what you do is crisis -> rising action -> blaze and it may be possible to alternate crisis between two people (because of its long cooldown) and repeat the process, but you'll at the very least need the master title. Even better if you have a crisis range reforge to compliment the title further.
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Oberynn wrote on 2014-12-05 21:00
Quote from Zey;1256269:
Definitely looking more into the puppetry and magic combos mentioned, but are such high ranked reforges a must to clear the competition in general
Yes.
If you want the blaze duo npc that people are referencing in this thread the reforges are NECESSARY.
It's only recommended for both of you to have lv 18+ crisis radius, but it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY that at least one of you do.
And as for "are the even more expensive blaze reforges necessary?" let's just say I can hit like 130~150k+ dmg blaze and it's still not nearly enough. Without the reforges I'd probably be doing less than half that damage, and if I didn't have the stats I do then my damage wouldn't even be half of that half either.
Basically, the duo blaze npc you want involves spending dozens upon dozens upon dozens of millions on reforges, and enough AP/gear specialization so that both of you can hit 100k+ damage with blaze and have ~700+ radius grab with crisis. Mechanically speaking, it is basically a loop of P1 crisis-> P1 rising action -> P2 blaze -> STUN PETS FOR DAYS -> P2 crisis -> P2 rising action -> P1 blaze and it either keeps going or ends earlier depending on how strong both of your blazes are and which round you're at.
If both of you really want to
nolife it and have the resources to get all that, then maybe you can get it down in 6 months but idk to me it sounds like it'd be better to just party up and rank whatever you find fun and is available to the amount of time/effort you are able to actually invest in a video game. Who knows, with the ever changing game mechanics if you're still playing a year or two from now you might be able to do the same already with whatever skills you chose to stick with.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-05 21:41
Quote from Oberynn;1256274:
Yes.
If you want the blaze duo npc that people are referencing in this thread the reforges are NECESSARY.
It's only recommended for both of you to have lv 18+ crisis radius, but it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY that at least one of you do.
And as for "are the even more expensive blaze reforges necessary?" let's just say I can hit like 130~150k+ dmg blaze and it's still not nearly enough. Without the reforges I'd probably be doing less than half that damage, and if I didn't have the stats I do then my damage wouldn't even be half of that half either.
Basically, the duo blaze npc you want involves spending dozens upon dozens upon dozens of millions on reforges, and enough AP/gear specialization so that both of you can hit 100k+ damage with blaze and have ~700+ radius grab with crisis. Mechanically speaking, it is basically a loop of P1 crisis-> P1 rising action -> P2 blaze -> STUN PETS FOR DAYS -> P2 crisis -> P2 rising action -> P1 blaze and it either keeps going or ends earlier depending on how strong both of your blazes are and which round you're at.
If both of you really want to nolife it and have the resources to get all that, then maybe you can get it down in 6 months but idk to me it sounds like it'd be better to just party up and rank whatever you find fun and is available to the amount of time/effort you are able to actually invest in a video game. Who knows, with the ever changing game mechanics if you're still playing a year or two from now you might be able to do the same already with whatever skills you chose to stick with.
Pretty much this. There's only a fraction of people in the game that have these types of gear, and I highly doubt that you'll use these reforges.
Hence why I said keep the archery skills. You're gonna need the puppet damage to make up for the missing blaze damage, and you sorely need the dex for it. Looking into the mods is a good option, although personally, I never had problems with Elf lag.
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Kelvas wrote on 2014-12-05 22:42
I say this in every thread that involves problems with archery lag, and people probably hate me for saying it so much but...
Have you tried changing your MTU? It helps a lot with skill lag.
Anyways, like what everyone else said, crisis + blaze is probably the most efficient way, but quite costly. A cost effective way would be to hydra your way through, and hide/play dead without attracting aggro.
Since there's two of you, you guys can alternate rain casting without the need of reforges, and kill the NPCs one by one by traditional means like support shot > lance smash.
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Zey wrote on 2014-12-07 14:43
Quote from Oberynn;1256274:
If both of you really want to nolife it and have the resources to get all that, then maybe you can get it down in 6 months but idk to me it sounds like it'd be better to just party up and rank whatever you find fun and is available to the amount of time/effort you are able to actually invest in a video game. Who knows, with the ever changing game mechanics if you're still playing a year or two from now you might be able to do the same already with whatever skills you chose to stick with.
Nah, no rush about getting there. I didn't consider that the game will mechanically change over time, true on that, but it won't help if I don't focus my efforts into a skill set. Have a goal in mind as I party up, do dailies, as in, I do want to get there ASAP in terms of focus but not rush it by leveling all day, if that makes sense.
Quote from ironwoman;1256278:
Pretty much this. There's only a fraction of people in the game that have these types of gear, and I highly doubt that you'll use these reforges.
Hence why I said keep the archery skills. You're gonna need the puppet damage to make up for the missing blaze damage, and you sorely need the dex for it. Looking into the mods is a good option, although personally, I never had problems with Elf lag.
I didn't know those reforges are that painful to get. How much are we talking about? 10m gold?
Right now I'm thinking, how would two puppeteers do? Crisis > Rising Action > Climatic Crash > Repeat, would that work? Is there a flaw in it that people choose Blaze over it?
Regardless you made a good point, I'll keep my DEX skills, but Support Shot is affected by elf lag so I don't think I'll be able to do that rain casting + support lance charge method if not and I'd feel lame about that since I always hear about it. If I can't fix it I'm pretty much done with my elf and remake as a human. A thought of switching roles came up, she could have support shot and I would smash--Oh wait, elves aren't made for it.
Quote from Kelvas;1256283:
I say this in every thread that involves problems with archery lag, and people probably hate me for saying it so much but...
Have you tried changing your MTU? It helps a lot with skill lag.
I did so a while back in 2009, it did improve skill load times by a little bit, but caused internet instability issues and low download rate. That was back then before elves came out, so I'll give it another try.
I noticed the elf lag I'm having is affected by latency, when I play with a VPN closer to server its playable but can cause small freezes that would mess combos. Without VPN it would just freeze me in place for over 5 seconds, enemies keep attacking me, my pets won't summon, etc, but the server is still sending me info (similiar to
this), as in, I can see myself getting destroyed and my party members laugh at me just fine. And it works perfectly fine as a human.
I'll try changing MTU and other methods then post results.