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Zekkii wrote on 2014-12-14 10:57
So why isn't anyone upset that everything has advanced heavy stander combined with a hefty health bar now? Listing:
1. Merrow & other Lord Mobs
2. Grandmaster Mobs
3. Black Dragon & White Dragon (+other Iria Raids)
4. Abyss/Advanced Dungeon Mobs/Bosses
5. Girgashiy
This is definitely the laziest solution to making the game more difficult, which would be fine if it didn't totally destroy the point of the skill systems. I get that they were stupid enough to release broken skill after broken item after broken buff (and still are), but are we really abandoning the game systems in favour of brick wall battles of attrition? What's the difference between Firebolt, WOTG, Magnum Shot, Smash, Water Canon, and Fighting Skills? There is none because they're all just DPS to a brick wall, and the other skills are even less.
P.S. I don't really care for the holy trinity skills they're trying to push either.
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Tropa wrote on 2014-12-14 11:00
I agree with that, Whenever I fight girgash, I just think it's a barrier spike that 'can' kill me.
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2014-12-14 11:37
To be honest, I've said this many times. Devcat dug their own grave when it comes to the Mabinogi combat system. By giving players unlimited power and potential they pretty much guaranteed that at some point no matter what content they throw at us, they will never ever be able to balance it properly.
Over 10 years Devcat has been working on Mabinogi and this is the best solution they can come up with in those 10 years. Frankly I think it's beyond hope, hoping for content that isn't cheap difficulty like the afore mentioned brick walls.
There is a limit to how far you can get away with no restrictions on leveling. Runescape for example while allowing people to level any skill they want without restriction, caps it at a certain level and they don't have a never ending stat system of rebirths and stat gaining cause there's so many skills.
The biggest mistake devcat made was releasing so many skills that gave stats and not restricting that. So many things they could have done from the get go to prevent all of this, but they didn't. Thus we are stuck with The Brick Wall Solution as devCAT seems to be incapable of figuring out any other solution to deal with this power creep.
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Qnjo wrote on 2014-12-14 12:23
For once, I think that devs had realised their mistake after G19 and thus started working on combat revamp. I mean, they wouldn't be doing that if it's gonna be useless in the future, I hope.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-14 13:15
It be fun if we could knock back Dragons. In Vindictus, a boss could be knocked down if it were attacked enough times, in the vein of Ifrit being stunned by multiple windmills.
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Osayidan wrote on 2014-12-14 14:24
We need mobs with smarter AI that uses more variety of skills in lethal combinations, instead of billions of HP that just makes people say "fuck it, I have other things to get done today".
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2014-12-14 14:31
Quote from Qnjo;1257277:
For once, I think that devs had realised their mistake after G19 and thus started working on combat revamp. I mean, they wouldn't be doing that if it's gonna be useless in the future, I hope.
Sure they can revamp the other skill sets to balance them out with existing ones but the same problem will exist. Until devCAT revamps the mob system itself, nothing will truly change.
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FallenDanny wrote on 2014-12-14 16:56
I remember when having above 80 of every stat aside from luck was a rare thing, now it feels like that number has increased to 300~400. I miss when the game was hard but I don't see that ever being "fixed"
I see what the new director is trying to do to fix this and what he's doing to fix party play; I think he's made progress in the right direction, even though I don't really like the crusader skills part of this update.
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-12-14 17:01
Regardless if they give a monster a good AI or not, we're still just going to stun lock the shit out of it. Smash and bash can take care of defense, and WM can take care of counter. There's nothing a mob can do to defend itself. Even more so if it's a raid monster. Allowing us to stun it in ANY OTHER WAY besides the new skills would make it trash instantly. Then again you can already somewhat stun it with wm/ragdoll spam, or in KR just using what ever the hell you want with a godly connection. (Not going to bother to find the 9min vid of a hard mode raid boss going down to nothing but basic attack/skill spam)
Face it, King is right. We're fucking gods and there isn't jack shit that's going to stop us, ever. We go on forever and just get stronger with every passing skill that comes out. The most we can really ask for at this point is just new content in general.
Er, on topic. I'm okay with SOME bosses having adv heavy. I don't like it when a regular mob has adv heavy, though I think they did it with the crystal mobs to help show how bad things our now that there's a new god trying to take stuff over. As he easily turned monsters that are quick and easy to deal with, into decently buffed, "Even a god can't knock me back!", monsters...[S]thatwecanstilleasily1shot[/S]
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Citrusjuice wrote on 2014-12-14 17:43
isn't the solution to brick wall to have high damage players to spam wm? :P
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Fracture wrote on 2014-12-14 18:33
The problem:
Mobs that don't have millions of HP: Instagibbed. We're just too fucking powerful. If my friend is struggling with a stupid boss and just wants past it, odds are Spear of God is going to blow it to hell.
Mobs that don't have ADV. Heavy: Never get to do anything, generally speaking. They either need to be thrown at us 3+ vs 1 or many vs party. Neither of those is really a solid option for big bosses, since Mabinogi is an MMO they don't want too much content to be solo and they can't just throw 20 of every boss at every party, it would be ludicrous.
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Takuji wrote on 2014-12-14 19:52
Quote from Zekkii;1257273:
So why isn't anyone upset that everything has advanced heavy stander combined with a hefty health bar now? Listing:
1. Merrow & other Lord Mobs
2. Grandmaster Mobs
3. Black Dragon & White Dragon (+other Iria Raids)
4. Abyss/Advanced Dungeon Mobs/Bosses
5. Girgashiy
This is definitely the laziest solution to making the game more difficult, which would be fine if it didn't totally destroy the point of the skill systems. I get that they were stupid enough to release broken skill after broken item after broken buff (and still are), but are we really abandoning the game systems in favour of brick wall battles of attrition? What's the difference between Firebolt, WOTG, Magnum Shot, Smash, Water Canon, and Fighting Skills? There is none because they're all just DPS to a brick wall, and the other skills are even less.
P.S. I don't really care for the holy trinity skills they're trying to push either.
I figured the top tier bosses and raid mobs would have adv heavy but some of them have way too much HP. I think after awhile when the gameplay changed they either neglected or didn't know how to change how mobs fought. So now it's an outdated enemy system vs a mostly imbalanced combat system. I'd like to hope they would fix this. If the revamp and bug eradication project is anything to infer into. There could be some hope to save the game.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2014-12-14 22:39
Merrow:
- Fight? Above-average, if you don't lead her up the ramp
- Rewards? 99% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Make her auto-teleport back to spawn if she gets to far and reduce her health to 250,000.
* Improve normal rewards.
Languhiris:
- Fight? Garbage, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs
- Rewards? Actually pretty good
- Suggestion? Cut mob spawns in half, reduce health to 800,000, increase damage by 100%.
Bhafelsepear:
- Fight? Garbage, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs
- Rewards? 99% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Cut mob spawns in half, reduce health to 2m, increase skill damage by 100%.
* Improve normal rewards.
Duke:
- Fight? Bad, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs...but at least he does stuff, dragons.
- Rewards? 95% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Increase damage of Duke's Rose to 90x4, reduce health to 250,000
* Improve normal rewards
Sephirot:
- Fight? Great, solid telegraph and threat, health is manageable
- Rewards? 95% of the time, terrible
Gigashiy:
- Fight? Awesome, everything is telegraphed, no stupid mobs
- Rewards? N/A for easy, gold/exp fail, items are decent
- Suggestion? Reduce health to perhaps 80% of its current value.
* Improve normal rewards.
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Standard enemies shouldn't have advanced heavy stander if they spawn in a group. That's unmanageable without something like Rain Casting taking the fight out of them.
The big issue with most of these newer boss monsters is that they don't telegraph their attacks and it's very hard, if not impossible, to evade or shunt their blows. Otherwise they spawn a fuck-ton of enemies while they waddle around doing a whole lot of nothing.
If they're going to place more emphasis on bosses, I would much rather face things like Sephirot and Girgashiy than Master Lich and Bhafel.
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Aubog007 wrote on 2014-12-14 23:04
in retrospect, that class system was a great idea in terms of balancing, even if it killed the spirit of mabinogi.
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Noel Vermillion wrote on 2014-12-14 23:27
Quote from Kaeporo;1257335:
Merrow:
- Fight? Above-average, if you don't lead her up the ramp
- Rewards? 99% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Make her auto-teleport back to spawn if she gets to far and reduce her health to 250,000.
* Improve normal rewards.
Languhiris:
- Fight? Garbage, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs
- Rewards? Actually pretty good
- Suggestion? Cut mob spawns in half, reduce health to 800,000, increase damage by 100%.
Bhafelsepear:
- Fight? Garbage, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs
- Rewards? 99% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Cut mob spawns in half, reduce health to 2m, increase skill damage by 100%.
* Improve normal rewards.
Duke:
- Fight? Bad, relatively few attacks, relies on shitty mobs...but at least he does stuff, dragons.
- Rewards? 95% of the time, terrible
- Suggestion? Increase damage of Duke's Rose to 90x4, reduce health to 250,000
* Improve normal rewards
Sephirot:
- Fight? Great, solid telegraph and threat, health is manageable
- Rewards? 95% of the time, terrible
Gigashiy:
- Fight? Awesome, everything is telegraphed, no stupid mobs
- Rewards? N/A for easy, gold/exp fail, items are decent
- Suggestion? Reduce health to perhaps 80% of its current value.
* Improve normal rewards.
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Standard enemies shouldn't have advanced heavy stander if they spawn in a group. That's unmanageable without something like Rain Casting taking the fight out of them.
The big issue with most of these newer boss monsters is that they don't telegraph their attacks and it's very hard, if not impossible, to evade or shunt their blows. Otherwise they spawn a fuck-ton of enemies while they waddle around doing a whole lot of nothing.
If they're going to place more emphasis on bosses, I would much rather face things like Sephirot and Girgashiy than Master Lich and Bhafel.
Pretty much this. We need bosses that telegraph their attacks in some way, while still being able to survive the onslaught of damage we can toss at them now. Just tossing adv heavy stander on a boss with smash and counter simply ends up being a spam whatever ranged attack you have or abuse pets on the boss type thing.