Synthesis: Mechanics And Tests

• Tetosan wrote on 2015-05-12 23:20

  Quote from Roflorz;1274608:

  He's not; he's using old G13 server data that was leaked. He even states so in his OP.
  
  pastie.org/10183643 Here's part of the synthesis database (careful, these are illegal files!).
  
  Besides, how would he be able to get such accurate data through trial and error?
  
  So sad, "Roflz" was already used. Probably by Rydian.

  
  
  Welcome to MabiNation, Where the KR-Test Team resides.
  What we do? Testing on KR's Servers and Data mining, it's something like a Hobby for us, we do it for fun and giggles ;3
  
  Also this list makes me want to actively look for Synthesis Pots....
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-13 01:00

  Quote from Roflorz;1274608:

  He's not; he's using old G13 server data that was leaked. He even states so in his OP.

  The values and rewards are from the list, but what it actually means (value of what, how is the category chosen, what else are possible outcomes) and if it still works like that is why I'm doing all this testing (to, you know, actually make use of this in-game).
  
  1 - I think I've figured out how the value is calculated (average buy price) but I'll need to test more thresholds to see whether the value is a minimum cutoff for all three items or not. It takes multiple successful synths to see if I'm hitting the right price bracket or not, and I have a 61% success rate with it so it eats lots of materials. Not knowing that the same type of item as output was possible threw off my earlier testing too.
  
  2 - The chosen category is up to the game to pick so I don't think we have any influence on the outcome category other than making sure some of the input items match. Whether there's a difference between using 2 matches and a wildcard or if all three matches give higher odds is still up in the air.
  
  3 - The ability to get items outside of the rewards list is interesting, especially since it pertains to rerolling set effects. Aubog and others said it works so I'm just going to trust them on this one though.
  
  

  Quote from Roflorz;1274608:

  So sad, "Roflz" was already used. Probably by Rydian.

  If it was wouldn't I have been banned on both here and the wiki for multi-account abuse?
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1274611:

  https://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=mabinogi

  Chances are we gotta' wait for the wiki staff to have a change of heart, but I'll use that.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Citrusjuice;1274662:

  so do you just use the price mods give you to determine values or what o.o

  A - The purchase price from NPCs if it's available in a shop.
  B - The price listed via mods if the mods are working at the time.
  C - If not B, then the price can be grabbed out of RAM.
  
  You might be able to figure it out from the resale price if it has full dura too.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Deletion;1274663:

  Well, I bought cooking pots from Walter for 23,000 G each and tried 10 synthesis attempts.
  4 Round Shields
  1 Tikka Shield
  2 Finest Fabrics
  1 Finest Leather
  1 Fine Fabric
  1 Small Gem
  
  Thought the shield list would give the specified over 20,000 G items, but it gave the 4,000 G ones.

  I checked the item database and Cooking Pots are tagged as shields, it may just be bad luck.
  
  Given that this is mabi, the lower price brackets are probably still more likely even when you qualify for the higher ones.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1274664:

  I don't know if the Synthesis system has been changed much over the years, but back in the day I used a recipe that had a really high chance of getting me Dirks, Executioner's Swords, War Swords, Dragon Blades and Dustin Silver Knight Swords.
  
  This was only valid before a certain Alchemy Crystal revamp changed the value and function of Int. Magic Crystals.
  
  The recipe would look like this:
  

  • Ice Spear Crystal x 50
    
  • Ice Spear Crystal x 50
    
  • Gathering Knife
    
  • Gathering Knife
    

  
  
  Those old Ice Spear Crystals (100) would've had a total value of 15,000G per stack of 50. The Gathering Knives were bought from the Royal Supply Guard behind Andras who sells them for 80G each. That put the total input of my items at 30,160G.
  
  I once made 4 of the above mentioned items within 10 attempts of this recipe.
  Any idea how or why this could have worked and if it might still be possible if we had something of similar value to replace the Ice Crystals with?

  If stacked items work and if 4 items can count for a higher value than 3, I haven't tested either of those things yet. ^^;
  
  I've been using use single items 'cause I'm used to multiple items in fixed synth stacks eating all of them for no additional gain.
  
  But if so that'd be pretty good, two lower priced items might count in place of a higher priced one to hit certain price ranges while costing less potentially... assuming that there's no "minimum price of all items" required now.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Citrusjuice;1274677:

  Im not sure if i dont understand this or im doing it wrong...
  
  Trying to go for the 60k robe list i tried:
  Jabu-shinseon's Imperial Robe + Nathane Snow Mountain Coat + wizard suit for men = Jabu-shinseon's Imperial Robe
  
  Lacard's Layered Muffler Robe + Lacard's Layered Muffler Robe + Coco Rabbit Robe = Robe...
  
  :fail3:

  Jabu is 30K, Nathane is 32K, Wizard is 170K.
  
  So while that would average out to 118K, it may be that the price limit for Synth takes into account the price of the lowest item now, or it may just be bad luck.
  
  
  
  
  And here's some hat testing results.
  
  Mongo Jester Cap x2 + Tork's Cap
  18K + 18K + 23K NPC cost input.
  - Results...
  Archer Feather Cap (5,600)
  Hat (2,000)
  Tail Cap (2,000)
  Lirina's Feather Cap (2,000)
  Fine Fabric (4,000)
  Lirina's Feather Cap (2,000)
  Finest Silk (4,000)
  Hat (2,000)
  Finest Silk (4,000)
  Lirina's Feather Cap (2,000)
  Hat (2,000)
  Hat (2,000)
  Cores' Felt Hat (5,600)
  Cores' Felt Hat (5,600)
  Leather Tail Cap (5,600)
  Archer Feather Cap (5,600)
  
  I was going for something in the 14K range but... is this just Mabi RNG being weighted as usual?
  
  
  
  
  
  Aiming for a 12K+ sword-category reward with just NPC items.
  Input: 2-Handed Sword + 2-Handed Sword + Claymore
  29,000/2900 + 29,000/2900 + 31,500/3150
  
  Results...
  Fine Leather Strap (6,000)
  2-Handed Sword (5,600)
  Great Sword (5,600)
  Fine Leather Strap (6,000)
  Battle Sword (5,600)
  Great Sword (5,600)
  Hooked Cutlass (12,000)
  Vales Great Sword (5,600)
  
  So as far as I see it, there's two ways this is working.
  
  1 - Category, then price group, then item in the price group. Price group is skewed low.
  2 - Any results possible, potentially skewed centered.
  
  Clothing might be a good next test. On the terms of stackable items, a stack of 1000 alchemy crystals will keep the 10K NPC sale price (despite a resale value of 0) so...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Aiming for 14K+...
  Terks' Two-Tone Tunic x2 + Selina Half Jacket Coat
  16,000/1,600 + 16,000/1,600 + 25,990/2,599
  - Results...
  Fine Fabric (4,000)
  Finest Silk (4,000)
  Common Leather Strap (4,000)
  Common Leather Strap (4,000)
  Giant Traditional Wear (1,000)
  Popo's Shirt And Pants (1,000)
  Giant Traditional Wear (1,000)
  Fine Fabric (4,000)
  Popo's Shirt And Pants (1,000)
  Vest And Pants Set (1,000)
  Track Suit Set (1,000)
  Tough String (800)
  Vest And Pants Set (1,000)
  Common Fabric (4,000)
  
  Then I hit 7 failures in a row at "71%" and gave up for now.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-21 03:14
  K, so I'm just pointing out that the latest version of Pale (the packet logger) has an updated Packet Analyzer that works on the ItemNew packet (for picking up from the ground or getting off of a pet or buying from an NPC or something) and it can show you the original price and the sale price of that item.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-05-21 03:45

  Quote from Rydian;1275836:

  K, so I'm just pointing out that the latest version of Pale (the packet logger) has an updated Packet Analyzer that works on the ItemNew packet (for picking up from the ground or getting off of a pet or buying from an NPC or something) and it can show you the original price and the sale price of that item.

  
  
  So does this mean we might soon see a list of item values based on what dropped them and where they came from? (at least the fairly common stuff)
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-21 05:25
  2 lay-z 4 that
• Poshwosh wrote on 2015-09-01 09:30
  I just synthesized Tipping Suit + Tipping Suit + Idol Ribbon Dress out of curiosity if it'll guarantee 80,000 value item.
  
  Nope. I got 1 Finest Fabric.
  
  I am so confused.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-09-01 11:26

  Quote from Poshwosh;1285561:

  I just synthesized Tipping Suit + Tipping Suit + Idol Ribbon Dress out of curiosity if it'll guarantee 80,000 value item.
  
  Nope. I got 1 Finest Fabric.
  
  I am so confused.

  The price bracket of the items is the highest you can get, it can still give lower bracket ones, and from the testing I've done it seems that the higher bracket ones are rarer than the lower bracket ones.
  
  Which means that even knowing what to do, it's probably way less gold and effort to get the item another way, which is sad.
• callback wrote on 2015-09-01 14:49

  Quote from Rydian;1285564:

  The price bracket of the items is the highest you can get, it can still give lower bracket ones, and from the testing I've done it seems that the higher bracket ones are rarer than the lower bracket ones.
  
  Which means that even knowing what to do, it's probably way less gold and effort to get the item another way, which is sad.

  
  
  except when you're desperately trying for one of the pirate outfits so you can make a unisex ageless cub to share with your friend...
  
  more fishing for idol dresses...
• Poshwosh wrote on 2015-09-06 19:04
  I just synthesized 10 times, and I am filled with even more questions.
  I used a Tipping Suit and 2 Pinned Apron Skirt to meet the 240,000 total (80,000 average value), and all ten of them produced either a spirit restoration potion or a piece of finest fabric.
  
  Has this ever happened to someone, am I just incredibly unlucky?
  
  Edit: Maybe the items didn't fit together because the tipping suit is considered magical?
• Bunny wrote on 2015-09-06 19:22

  Quote from callback;1285575:

  except when you're desperately trying for one of the pirate outfits so you can make a unisex ageless cub to share with your friend...
  
  more fishing for idol dresses...

  
  
  It would probably cost less to just buy the outfit from someone else rather than letting RNG determine what you get from synthing.
  On top of that, to get RC on the outfit you would need godly luck or a ton of enchant prot pots. (The bridging is disgusting)
• Roflorz wrote on 2015-09-06 19:25

  Quote from Bunny;1285906:

  It would probably cost less to just buy the outfit from someone else rather than letting RNG determine what you get from synthing.

  
  
  Except there's no way to get a *new* outfit other than via Synthesis since all other obtain methods are old gachs/events. So if there are none available in the server / no one is selling one, you'd have to synth one.
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-09-06 19:53

  Quote from Bunny;1285906:

  It would probably cost less to just buy the outfit from someone else rather than letting RNG determine what you get from synthing.
  On top of that, to get RC on the outfit you would need godly luck or a ton of enchant prot pots. (The bridging is disgusting)

  
  
  Pirate Uniforms are about 1~1.5m on mari.
  It took 12 free prots to get RC on the damn thing.
  Friend took 5 two weeks ago.
  
  And yeah, synthesis is hella RNG. 90% of the time you wont get anything remotely close because all it does I think is make a certain area more likely.
• Bunny wrote on 2015-09-06 22:33

  Quote from Roflorz;1285907:

  Except there's no way to get a *new* outfit other than via Synthesis since all other obtain methods are old gachs/events. So if there are none available in the server / no one is selling one, you'd have to synth one.

  
  
  Yes, but I don't think its impossible to find one as of now if you pay enough. I mean you can argue that people who have them probably quit by now or left it in some pet for centuries, but someone is bound to have one available eventually if you're paying a good price. Not like they are a hot commodity.. but yes synthing would be the absolute last option (one that I personally wouldn't take, 'cause yuck). It costs so much just to make a universal RC; it can't be too difficult to find an outfit for sale.
• Poshwosh wrote on 2015-09-07 10:21
  So did any of you experienced synthesizers ever the same results as me?
  
  I've synthesized 4 tipping suits since my last results, they ended up being finest fabric or spirit potion yet again.
  But when I dropped below 80,000 average (used mongo's long skirt instead of apron), suddenly I'm getting equipment results.
  
  So I'm thinking that the further on you're into the bracket, the higher the chance you'll get an equipment, otherwise it's the misc items.
  So if you use a tipping suit and mongo skirts (78,926 average) which doesn't hit 80,000 yet it highly exceeds 30,000 which is the last tier, the junk rate is much lower.
  With that also in mind if you use an idol ribbon dress and skirts (134,000), it also greatly exceeds it.
  
  Just a theory though! I could just be incredibly lucky, but I can't find any info of people getting this many finest fabrics and spirit potions so there's that.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2015-09-07 17:19

  Quote from Esileruf;1285909:

  Pirate Uniforms are about 1~1.5m on mari.
  It took 12 free prots to get RC on the damn thing.
  Friend took 5 two weeks ago.
  
  And yeah, synthesis is hella RNG. 90% of the time you wont get anything remotely close because all it does I think is make a certain area more likely.

  
  
  12 ain't THAT bad yo, someone used 34 to make one lmfao... that's 2 RC scrolls... and even the 2nd one was almost gone