Mabinogi and P2W discussion

• aabattery wrote on 2015-08-13 14:49
  I'm glad that at least the gap between P2P and F2P players isn't so great so as to exclude those without reforged, enchanted and upgraded gear. Aside from special combos such as Crisis->Flameburst, having an extra player of a decent level (and isn't braindead) helps a great deal in normal content. I personally haven't tried extremely difficult content due to lag from being in Australia, but what I can participate in, strong players are typically willing to play together and help us F2Pers.
  
  However, pay for power/ saving months of grinding exists in every Nexon game and I loathe spending money on their games. As long as Nexon keeps releasing content faster than a F2P player can keep up, there will always be a gap between P2P and F2P.
• Waffoes wrote on 2015-08-13 16:29
  As someone who quit playing seriously around the same time that reforges entered the cash shop, and gachas started dropping r1 items left and right, I am actually shocked at the number of people who think that mabi is only "partially" p2w. Even when weekly rebirths had to be paid, it still felt less p2w than it currently does to me.
  Being level 10k and watching people under 3k outperform me because of reforges (which are definitely p2w, as getting the right ones costs an equivalent of hundreds in cash, at least) is a bit irritating, to say the least. The fact that reforges (and most other cash items now) are tradable is their ONLY saving grace, and without that the game itself would be entirely p2w.
• Rynn wrote on 2015-08-13 17:01
  I think outperforming other players due to reforges is like some have called it, pay2win-more.
  
  You can still access and beat all game content in a reasonable manner with low rank enchants that do not require protect pots or any reforges above r3. You won't really ever be denied entrance to any party or guild because your reforges are rank 3 instead of rank 1 or your enchants are rA~r7 instead of r5+.
  
  The real difference is that players who p2w (and those who have the right knowledge or nolife hard enough to p2w without using IRL currency) get to e-peen prettier character screen stats, the ability to mindlessly steamroll with little skill required and maybe being able to show off youtube videos of Michael Bay explosions that wipe out the fomor race. A healthy amount of the playerbase doesn't really value those things and can participate in all game content unrestricted and enjoy themselves just as much.
  
  IMO p2w would be like getting kicked off parties because certain reforge levels are required or no one would want to run with you because you won't be able to clear a single room otherwise.
• KingFintchz wrote on 2015-08-13 18:03

  Quote from Waffoes;1284048:

  
  (which are definitely p2w, as getting the right ones costs an equivalent of hundreds in cash, at least)

  
  
  I'm not too sure about that one, maybe can costs an equivalent of hundreds in cash is what you meant. From Reforging experience I've gotten the right reforges I needed in less that $15 worth of reforges plenty of times.
  
  
  
  While skimming over the above post I came across a few which mentioned the whole Money - - - -> Time Conversion thing, and I'm not sure whether or not they were stating that as P2W or not [tl;dr a lot of them] however, I think this point is exactly what makes the whole concept of reforges not really pay2win but instead, uhh.. pay2go..(?) .. pay2killbarriers..(?) pay2overkillfoxes..(?) I'm not really sure what I'd consider it but reforges really only speed up the completion of content we already have, and aren't at all required to complete a ny of it. I speak from experience when I say this, I've quit and sold all my gear twice now [albeit I had like 5 reforged gears over those last 2 quits] when I came back I was reforgeless for a while.
  
  IMO, P2W is when you require a certain type of piece of equipment, or enhancement that you can't acquire from just playing in game in order to complete an in game aspect. i.e:
  Making Certain monsters only take damage from certain elements.
  
  P2W in my eyes would also be adding training seals to the cash shop; basically buying stats. Furthermore, while this could be seen as "money - - - > time conversion", I believe that this offers a bigger advantage as higher stats are effective everywhere. . . (?)...
  
  I was going to say that AP would be something that would be pay2win in the cash shop, but I believe in a way we already have that implemented. (Hero RB on Alts grants 50ap per week to the selected character for $5(?) per alt)
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2015-08-13 19:08
  Mabinogi is just a p2w-more game. You can do just about anything in this game given enough rebirth (and you ranked enough skills). Mabinogi is just a really time consuming (or long term) MMORPG compared to other MMORPG where you max out in a week or less.
  
  Reforges are nice... if you want to overkill old content. That is about it. Sure, having reforges does help a bit, but it isn't as much as it used to.
• koishi-sempai wrote on 2015-08-14 10:04

  Quote from Waffoes;1284048:

  As someone who quit playing seriously around the same time that reforges entered the cash shop, and gachas started dropping r1 items left and right, I am actually shocked at the number of people who think that mabi is only "partially" p2w. Even when weekly rebirths had to be paid, it still felt less p2w than it currently does to me.
  Being level 10k and watching people under 3k outperform me because of reforges (which are definitely p2w, as getting the right ones costs an equivalent of hundreds in cash, at least) is a bit irritating, to say the least. The fact that reforges (and most other cash items now) are tradable is their ONLY saving grace, and without that the game itself would be entirely p2w.

  
  
  It costs a LOT less money to get quality reforged gear than it costs to get 5-6k TTL by 2011/2012 when the server opened in 2009.
  
  I notice that some of the biggest complainers about reforges being P2W are the same people that dropped that 10 dollars every week to gain a huge power edge over other players (and those people even have the audacity to claim that being able to progress 3x as quickly as everyone else AND get the most out of 3 day RB week events, every Double Rainbow, every 3x AP event, etc etc is not pay to win but getting a 25% or so damage edge is)
• Aubog007 wrote on 2015-08-14 10:28
  Remember for a year when mabi opened, it was 3 week paid rebirths
• Twin wrote on 2015-08-14 10:37
  I don't the mind base idea of reforges. What I do mind is how you rank them, how their obtained and how there is no clear progression at all.
• Poshwosh wrote on 2015-08-14 11:45

  Quote from Aubog007;1284091:

  Remember for a year when mabi opened, it was 3 week paid rebirths

  
  
  And you couldn't rebirth otherwise. A lot of features such as paladin and spirit weapons were locked behind the premium service, it was very different game back then.
• Daakun wrote on 2015-08-14 23:03
  Fortunately they saved themselves from how obviously not-gonna-profit-longterm that setup was.
  Also glad I kept tabs on the game until that got fixed; aside from that issue, the game was already awesome.
• Zarozian wrote on 2015-08-23 19:54
  It broke my heart when I found out after releasing the new celtic weapons, the gacha ones were better than the smithed ones and the smithed ones are generally impossible to make and requires more effort and time. o -o
  
  Which basically really killed it because it could of been what would of made people do dungeons more. =/
  
  I also see the current x2 event and the free hero rebirths as a desperate attempt to draw people back in.
• spirit2roam wrote on 2015-08-23 23:20

  Quote from Zarozian;1284823:

  It broke my heart when I found out after releasing the new celtic weapons, the gacha ones were better than the smithed ones and the smithed ones are generally impossible to make and requires more effort and time. o -o
  
  Which basically really killed it because it could of been what would of made people do dungeons more. =/
  
  I also see the current x2 event and the free hero rebirths as a desperate attempt to draw people back in.

  
  
  The only things making the gacha ones better is that it's already R2 and it's pre-made. Smithed ones can still be better (ex: the gacha ones have a base of 101 attack while smithed ones can potentially be 100 - 105 max attack).
  
  So, in terms of those wanting more max for the time invested, the smithed ones are better.
• Twin wrote on 2015-08-23 23:37

  Quote from Zarozian;1284823:

  It broke my heart when I found out after releasing the new celtic weapons, the gacha ones were better than the smithed ones and the smithed ones are generally impossible to make and requires more effort and time. o -o
  
  Which basically really killed it because it could of been what would of made people do dungeons more. =/
  
  I also see the current x2 event and the free hero rebirths as a desperate attempt to draw people back in.

  
  
  Undermining players hard-earned work to pawn something off in a gacha is common for Nexon sadly