A Mabinogi-like

• Slayerj wrote on 2016-08-26 01:19
  With Mabinogi being as old as it is, why do you think no one, fan or company, has tried to make a 'clone' of it? What I mean is, a game you can sit down and play and say "Yeah this is mabi with a different coat of paint...and codded better to boot." The only thing fans have done is sketchy private servers and I don't think there's ever been anything by any company, devkitty/nexon included, that's 'mabinogi-like'. There's been plenty of games with a FEW of mabinogi's elements, though I think only ONE game to have it's combat system, that Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine, which was broken, Pay2Win as all hell, and only up in JP now.
  
  I know the obvious answer aside form copyright-ish, being that coding is a chore and no one's going to do this out of the goodness of their heart and love for the game, I mean you don't see me rushing off to learn code and artsy stuff and character modeling and all that jazz to do this.
  
  But is it because we still currently...HAVE Mabinogi? Do you think once it finally dies from being beaten too much, to the point that all it's glass band-aids shatter, that's when someone will attempt it? (Probably nexon devkitty...) Or will Mabinogi's style die out then and there?
  
  
  I'm making this thread on a whim because I just feel like talking about this and getting others talking about it. Sorry if I wasted your time reading it.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-08-26 02:10
  Mabinogi has multiple concepts that don't appeal to the average player, such a combat actually requiring tactics, and it's a hard game to adjust to when coming from others. So it may not be seen as viable in terms of the market.
• Fabian wrote on 2016-08-26 04:52
  I'm asking myself the same question. The way Mabinogi handles grinding is genius. You don't actually feel like you are grinding at all. I wish more companies would try to alleviate grinding on a mmo before focusing on the money making part of it.
  
  I shudder when I remember spending 8 hours a day with a partner 10 levels below mine, hovering around me while in a party full of 6 others doing exactly the same thing as me just to get one level. Kudos to whoever can tell me the name of that game. QQ
• Konrad wrote on 2016-08-26 09:20
  I guess making something so different and so complex like mabi is too big of a risk from financial point of view. While you can make another clone of WoW/DFO, slap one extra feature on then call it a day, why bother?
  At the very least, Nexon does seem to be aware of mabi's potential and some kind of spiritual successor is likely to come from them eventually. With Peria ninja-cancelled, currently Maplestory 2 is the closest to what we need.
• Slayerj wrote on 2016-08-26 10:04

  Quote from Konrad;1297900:

  I guess making something so different and so complex like mabi is too big of a risk from financial point of view. While you can make another clone of WoW/DFO, slap one extra feature on then call it a day, why bother?
  At the very least, Nexon does seem to be aware of mabi's potential and some kind of spiritual successor is likely to come from them eventually. With Peria ninja-cancelled, currently Maplestory 2 is the closest to what we need.

  
  
  Was it really canceled? I never read up on it, just heard it went silent for a while.
  
  

  Quote from Fabian;1297894:

  I'm asking myself the same question. The way Mabinogi handles grinding is genius. You don't actually feel like you are grinding at all. I wish more companies would try to alleviate grinding on a mmo before focusing on the money making part of it.
  
  I shudder when I remember spending 8 hours a day with a partner 10 levels below mine, hovering around me while in a party full of 6 others doing exactly the same thing as me just to get one level. Kudos to whoever can tell me the name of that game. QQ

  
  
  Though there are some things in Mabinogi that ARE grindy for bad game design, like CP..or outdated and unaltered training methods.. I'm looking at you, Alchemy Mastery and Transmutation mastery. Seriously, fix it damn it! And Transmutation alchemy, the only 'real' way to rank you early on is with Mana crystalization as that gives 2x the training right off the bat! Why are the other training methods completely useless?
• Konrad wrote on 2016-08-26 10:44

  Quote from Slayerj;1297902:

  Was it really canceled? I never read up on it, just heard it went silent for a while.

  
  http://mmoculture.com/2016/08/peria-chronicles-online-game-missing-from-new-launch-roadmap/
  More like indefinitely dead in the water, but I'm not expecting a comeback.
• gundamweed wrote on 2016-08-28 17:45

  Quote from Rydian;1297889:

  Mabinogi has multiple concepts that don't appeal to the average player, such as combat actually requiring tactics, and it's a hard game to adjust to when coming from others. So it may not be seen as viable in terms of the market.

  
  
  This is what mabi fanboys actually believe.
  
  
  Such a concept died long ago with genesis, and even back then things were very much spam windmill, thunder, or magnum shot until your hands bled. Things today are so faceroll easy it's not even funny. Anything that isn't faceroll is ridiculously crammed with artificial difficulty meant for your wallet. Most MMOs have more tact than you give credit for.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-08-28 18:10

  Quote from gundamweed;1297939:

  This is what mabi fanboys actually believe.

  I've played a number of MMOs and I've yet to see otherwise. In Mabinogi (especially before gunner) you need to react to what the enemy is doing and your actions change the flow of battle. A weak entity can beat a much stronger entity if they take the right reactions and counters to various skills. In comparison in most MMOs, people set up the same tactics for optimal DPS and whoever has the higher effective stats wins.
  
  

  Quote from gundamweed;1297939:

  Most MMOs have more tact than you give credit for.

  I'd love to hear some details so we can make a comparison.
  
  EDIT: Record yourself fighting an enemy in various MMOs and we'll compare/contrast the fights?
• gundamweed wrote on 2016-08-28 22:45

  Quote from Rydian;1297940:

  
  I'd love to hear some details so we can make a comparison.
  
  EDIT: Record yourself fighting an enemy in various MMOs and we'll compare/contrast the fights?

  
  
  It's so very true some a weaker player can beat something stronger, but really, that isn't a science. Achieving that isn't a big deal. It's not hard to play lullaby, use overture, set up rain cast, and go to town. It didn't require skill, only AP.
  
  By contrast, there are games that have a clear purpose and design for players. think about WoW and its endgame raiding scene. You simply can't just pump out DPS, tank-n-spank, and win, even if you have the gear. No, there are a series of mechanics that have to be dealt with, and there is team coordination that's required. You can't even just DPS as you'd like, cooldowns have to be spaced and used in such a way to benefit others, as well as yourself as to not be caught with your pants down when the situation demands for it. A more modern example, like FFXIV, such endgame content is competitive on a global scale to see which region and server finishes first. Many of its raids were unbeaten for at least a month upon release, just to give you an idea of the amount of strategy and coordination required. Mabi, on the other hand, has nothing like that in its endgame. There's no such thing as cohesive teamplay, only a bunch of players playing solo in the same dungeon. In fact, a large part of mabi's end game is centered around things that throw out everything you learned about proper combat with the use of enemies with advance heavy stander, or if not, are vulnerable to skills that let us fight as if we were in your wow-esque games with the use of bash.
  
  
  Your average gamer doesn't choose mabi because it's lol2hard4me. Dark Souls is mainstream as a franchise, how could that be if your average gamer is a filthy casual with no desire for a challenge? LoL's very competitive and requires strategy, and everyone knows how popular that is. The truth is your average MMO gamer has a nice selection to choose from without putting up with mabi's abundance of issues and nexon's bullshit. It's just not tactical.
• Slayerj wrote on 2016-08-29 00:35

  Quote from gundamweed;1297946:

  It's so very true some a weaker player can beat something stronger, but really, that isn't a science. Achieving that isn't a big deal. It's not hard to play lullaby, use overture, set up rain cast, and go to town. It didn't require skill, only AP.
  
  [SPOILER="I built a rambling wall!"]By contrast, there are games that have a clear purpose and design for players. think about WoW and its endgame raiding scene. You simply can't just pump out DPS, tank-n-spank, and win, even if you have the gear. No, there are a series of mechanics that have to be dealt with, and there is team coordination that's required. You can't even just DPS as you'd like, cooldowns have to be spaced and used in such a way to benefit others, as well as yourself as to not be caught with your pants down when the situation demands for it. A more modern example, like FFXIV, such endgame content is competitive on a global scale to see which region and server finishes first. Many of its raids were unbeaten for at least a month upon release, just to give you an idea of the amount of strategy and coordination required. Mabi, on the other hand, has nothing like that in its endgame. There's no such thing as cohesive teamplay, only a bunch of players playing solo in the same dungeon. In fact, a large part of mabi's end game is centered around things that throw out everything you learned about proper combat with the use of enemies with advance heavy stander, or if not, are vulnerable to skills that let us fight as if we were in your wow-esque games with the use of bash.
  
  
  Your average gamer doesn't choose mabi because it's lol2hard4me. Dark Souls is mainstream as a franchise, how could that be if your average gamer is a filthy casual with no desire for a challenge? LoL's very competitive and requires strategy, and everyone knows how popular that is. The truth is your average MMO gamer has a nice selection to choose from without putting up with mabi's abundance of issues and nexon's bullshit. It's just not tactical.

  
  
  It's nice of you to point out the flaws in the system that everyone already knows about. Yes, Rain cast rank 1 is busted, yes bard skills need some major changes, and yes, I can assure you that aside from extreamly large bosses that don't fight like us, ADV heavy is 100% complete and utter bullshit that NO ONE wants or likes. You're also pointing out the flaws of Mabinogi that have been brought upon over the years of extended neglect to the core gameplay. We are all very much aware that Mabinogi is not some shining god of a MMO and we are all aware that Devkitty/Nexon have ruined it in places throughout it's 'development' if you can even call it that.
  
  You also used some of the larger MMO's that have a lot of power behind them to help them be better (Aside from current WoW which has fallen apart apparently, becoming something else from where it started...Reminds me of Mabinogi...) than the many other MMO's out there. The most that most games do for 'strategy' is take care of X mob with fast DPS and avoid the giant "MY ATTACK LANDS HERE" signs. Even BDO, in my current 50-53 levels of gameplay, nothing has really changed in the way I fight. I just need to deal as much damage as I an and have the gear to do so while taking the least amount of hits. I CAN use stratagy to do things at lower levels and have, but it's not rewarded in the slightest, favoring the high DPS, as every battle is a grind and not a real fight. Is it a bad game? No, it's still very much fun and the combat is nice for an action rpgmmo.
  
  Genesis or oldMabi load times, both can and will work for Mabinogi if done right. That's why the idea of a Mabinogi-like is so appealing to me, and i hope others, as it could be that chance. We already know Devkitty/nexon will never fix this game fully. Hell, there are still invisible walls in Rundal Dungeon for mobs to fly into after being pushed back. I remember that shit back from G3. You can't lower land in....C...Co...Conus?..Elfplace, so as far as I'm aware, we cannot get into ant hell anymore (I think, it's been a year since I last tried), stats are too heavily piled on and will never be changed up, Spirit weapons have been waiting on a change that'll probably make them god OP for 1 month before a new special upgrade comes out or something for years now, and so much gear has been ruined by power creep. The list of problems goes on and on.
  
  Also, no one ever said people played this game because it was hard. They play it because it's 'different'. This game is specifically what some people just WANT. It's THAT game for them. Mabinogi is MY RPG mmo of choice, Haven and Hearth is MY ...survival..thing....game, of choice. Everything else is just filler compared, and I'm sure it's that way with others too.[/SPOILER]
• gundamweed wrote on 2016-08-29 01:46

  Quote from Slayerj;1297949:

  
  
  Also, no one ever said people played this game because it was hard. They play it because it's 'different'. This game is specifically what some people just WANT. It's THAT game for them. Mabinogi is MY RPG mmo of choice, Haven and Hearth is MY ...survival..thing....game, of choice. Everything else is just filler compared, and I'm sure it's that way with others too.[/SPOILER]

  
  
  While that was a very nice emotional appeal, that isn't the point. He said this game's unpopular due to being tactical, I disagreed and gave examples to back up my point. While no one claims to play this game for its difficulty, I was refuting a claim that people avoid it because of it. That might sound similar, but it's not.
  
  Look, you're not the only one who wants a new mabi. I'm sure you've seen the same faces on your server, the same ones who've been around since the beginning. Neither you nor them have moved on, but everyone else has. There aren't new faces, only those who have an acquired taste and loyalty to their old MMO. I'd argue that it's even harmful to a point. After all, you've just acknowledged everything I said, and even added more to boot. Yet here we are. Point is these people, yourself included, are in the really small minority, and it's doubtful if another game will be developed to cater to that small a demographic.
• Intimacy wrote on 2016-08-29 08:03
  Black desert is pretty awesome, literally infinite progression just like mabi, just in different ways, skills also scale into infinity if you put the time in, the combat is also pretty awesome.
  Everyone go play that with me instead of mabi :D
• Tropa wrote on 2016-08-29 12:13

  Quote from Fabian;1297894:

  I'm asking myself the same question. The way Mabinogi handles grinding is genius. You don't actually feel like you are grinding at all. I wish more companies would try to alleviate grinding on a mmo before focusing on the money making part of it.

  
  
  I don't know, Fighter, Gunslinger and Ninja had a disgusting amount of grinding in them, even with 2x events.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-08-29 15:42

  Quote from gundamweed;1297946:

  By contrast, there are games that have a clear purpose and design for players. think about WoW and its endgame raiding scene. You simply can't just pump out DPS, tank-n-spank, and win, even if you have the gear. No, there are a series of mechanics that have to be dealt with, and there is team coordination that's required. You can't even just DPS as you'd like, cooldowns have to be spaced and used in such a way to benefit others, as well as yourself as to not be caught with your pants down when the situation demands for it.

  Uh.
  http://mabination.com/threads/86923-Girgashiy-Raid-Guide
  
  Also, I'm being serious here. Record yourself fighting enemies in various MMOs that you say have more tacical fights than Mabi, and we'll compare and contrast the combat systems. Put something behind your claim.
• gundamweed wrote on 2016-08-29 17:11

  Quote from Rydian;1297957:

  Uh.
  http://mabination.com/threads/86923-Girgashiy-Raid-Guide
  
  Also, I'm being serious here. Record yourself fighting enemies in various MMOs that you say have more tacical fights than Mabi, and we'll compare and contrast the combat systems. Put something behind your claim.

  
  
  Uh.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5RZVYAecSo
  
  
  You're a big boy, you can look up fights yourself.