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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-21 07:43
How long does it take to finish rafting? It's been a long time since I last played.
As I said, Arrow Revolver and Magnum Shot aren't the most reliable methods of rafting. Crash Shot will likely replace Thunder's usefulness when rafting considering that it loads faster, has potentially greater maximum range, has a larger area of effect, strikes a larger initial group of enemies and costs less mana. That being said, Thunder is your best option right now and for magic users.
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-21 08:00
To be honest I've never timed how long it takes, it would also depend on how long you spend at the docks.
Crash shot might load faster and have higher damage potential on the main target than Thunder, but you'll still need 400+ damage to be sure of taking out the warriors with the splash damage. That's allot of dex and the 490 AP makes it allot less attractive since you can raft with r9 Thunder without much trouble.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-21 09:05
Quote from IceBlade;161891:
To be honest I've never timed how long it takes, it would also depend on how long you spend at the docks.
Crash shot might load faster and have higher damage potential on the main target than Thunder, but you'll still need 400+ damage to be sure of taking out the warriors with the splash damage. That's allot of dex and the 490 AP makes it allot less attractive since you can raft with r9 Thunder without much trouble.
The warriors only have around 450 health. You can OHKO them reliably with 200 average damage, critical hit or not. Worst case scenario, you'll need 300 max damage to ensure the kill. Single-charge Thunder will cost you 325 mana per section compared to Max-charge Thunder which will cost you around 280 mana in order to reach 31 stars. Crash Shot would cost 80 for the same section.
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-21 09:45
Yeah, sorry I was thinking about the Exorcists around the corner, but you never fight them on a normal raft. Sorry about that.
Crash shot has allot of advantages over Thunder and is much more mana efficient, but still how much dex would you need to get even 200 average damage, added to spending 490 Ap on it and being able to miss. It wouldn't really be feasible for a Mage to switch over (unless they're really end game) or really feasible for most people that raft. I will agree that it always ranger to be just or even more effective than Mages at rafting, but it isn't something that's going to have everyone use it over Thunder or have Mages switch over.
It's just allot easier to get r9 Thunder and the int needed for 100% balance than it would be to get r1 Crash shot and the dex needed to use it, so I don't see it as replacing Thunder as the most effective method of rafting for most people.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-09-21 17:35
Crash Shot can miss due to the nature of range. Does it get aim % rate increase as it levels? Thunder has no misses, and have almost the same range as a LLB. I don't see how Crash Shot will be anywhere close to being as good as Thunder in rafting.
The fastest way to get exploration levels is actually by field boss kills. However, finding/getting them is much harder than artifacts and rafting. Usually it requires you to have a schedule of all the field bosses.
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-21 17:47
All the wiki say's is that Crash shot aims slower than range, but faster than Magnum.
Field boss kills might be the fastest, but very few people can actually get the kill.
@Kaeporo You asked earlier how long rafting takes. I just took my time with a stop watch and it was 12 min from start till end and 10m39s till where I usually let the warriors kill me. I did take a bit long on the first stop because of a phone call tough.
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Richard wrote on 2010-09-21 20:14
Quote from IceBlade;162025:
All the wiki say's is that Crash shot aims slower than range, but faster than Magnum.
Field boss kills might be the fastest, but very few people can actually get the kill.
@Kaeporo You asked earlier how long rafting takes. I just took my time with a stop watch and it was 12 min from start till end and 10m39s till where I usually let the warriors kill me. I did take a bit long on the first stop because of a phone call tough.
Letting the warriors kill you? Why do you do that? I need more tips like this! Also, am I suppose to stop at every stop to turn in my stars?
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-21 20:33
Yes, I allow the one group of warriors at the end to kill me. It allows you to instantly warp back to the start of the raft and start again. So you don't waist the 1m30s trip to the next dock nor do you have to wait there on the raft till it disappears. You don't lose any blessings and only get up to 50% wounds. But that's easily fixed with a trans.
You said earlier that you get around 31 stars, then you don't need to stop at every stop, unless you're trying to get a specific reward. I usually turn mine in at every stop, but I get the max amount of stars on 2 of the 3 legs. You could always write down how many stars you get at each stop and do the math to see if turning them in at each dock gives more expl exp or not. If it does then do every stop, other wise just at the end.
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Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-21 21:12
Quote from IceBlade;162194:
You said earlier that you get around 31 stars, then you don't need to stop at every stop, unless you're trying to get a specific reward. I usually turn mine in at every stop, but I get the max amount of stars on 2 of the 3 legs. You could always write down how many stars you get at each stop and do the math to see if turning them in at each dock gives more expl exp or not. If it does then do every stop, other wise just at the end.
Let me save the trouble, the sum of the parts > sum of the whole. Unless you are looking for a reward other than gold or experience, stop at every stop.
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Blassreiter wrote on 2010-09-21 21:59
I don't know about everyone else, but I say Courcle Exploration is the best way because you do not have to worry about MP for rafts or digging for fossils and golems in Fossils. Courcle chests are always at the same spot, so if you can memorize them (which is easy because you can use the black markings on the minimap as a guide) you can get a lot of artifacts quickly. The location of the chests can be found from the Wiki.
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Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-21 22:30
Ok, I'm rather new to rafting and I need help wrapping my head around this. Everyone is talking about this not being as good as that and so forth, and I can make it make sense, if I were a mage. But, I'm not a mage, I have r1 Mana Crystalization, so the standard arguments don't always apply.
Why exactly are ice spear and fireball so horrible for rafting and do those reasons still apply if I can cast a r1 5 charge fireball in 7 seconds and a r1 5 charge icespear in 5 seconds without having to worry about mana while on the river?
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-09-21 22:38
Quote from Blassreiter;162260:
I don't know about everyone else, but I say Courcle Exploration is the best way because you do not have to worry about MP for rafts or digging for fossils and golems in Fossils. Courcle chests are always at the same spot, so if you can memorize them (which is easy because you can use the black markings on the minimap as a guide) you can get a lot of artifacts quickly. The location of the chests can be found from the Wiki.
You don't have to worry about MP for rafts.
Where did you get that information from?
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ok OP, let me brief this for you: if you don't have r1 thunder, go do cor exploration. If you have r1 thunder, go do rafting.
Fossils are really for money and can't compete as much as the other two.
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Zid wrote on 2010-09-22 01:31
Quote from Omegatronic;162283:
Why exactly are ice spear and fireball so horrible for rafting and do those reasons still apply if I can cast a r1 5 charge fireball in 7 seconds and a r1 5 charge icespear in 5 seconds without having to worry about mana while on the river?
Fireball = charge time, since you need to have 5 charges to use it. Also, it's virtually impossible to take care of Deadlied stragglers with another Fireball (unless you can hit them with bolts if they're close enough).
Ice Spear = sometimes awkward moments where your freeze splash doesn't work the way you want.
For your r1 Mana Crystallization, you don't exactly need r1 crystals to get the job done. Simple r4 Thunder crystals from Shadow Missions are useful, and even then, you still don't need all 5 charges in that crystal, I think. r4 Fireball crystals are good too. Ice Spear crystal will remain the same as casting Ice Spear itself, but with 5 charges too.
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Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-22 07:33
Thank you Zid, those were the answers I was looking for.
Prior to asking my question, I had only rafted with fireball crystals that were left over from training my Mana crystalization. I knew that fireball's 25 second base charge time was the killer there. Which is something that didn't apply as much to MaCr. But I hadn't really considered the deadlied stragglers even though I have seen those first hand.
Thunder I decided to play with today using r4 shadow mission crystals. I'll need to work on my aim a bit, but generally, it left me a bit unimpressed. Though, if I could toss a single charge r1 crystal in 3.5 seconds, I'm sure I'd be thinking differently.
I'll have to get some ice spear crystals made and play with them sometime. The 5 second load time offers such potential, but we'll see if saving those 2 seconds over the fireball outweigh the shorter range and those awkward moments you mentioned.
Live and learn. ;-)
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Cryosite wrote on 2010-09-23 07:35
Fireball: Problems already discussed. Even with faster load time of alchemic fireball though, that's still pretty slow. The area is not going to hit everything you might want it to (I can typically hit max 8 targets). Slow load time prevents you from completely wiping out the banks; stragglers or things outside of the blast will taunt you as the raft carries you out of range before another fireball is loaded. Perhaps water cannon could be used to quickly load and take out a few more?
Ice spear: short range means you'll have to steer raft in close in many situations. When there are hobs on both banks, you can only tackle one bank typically. A good 5-charged crystal can do plenty of damage though, and if you line your shots up well, you can easily chain reaction into 3-4 clusters near each other, hitting up to 12 hobs in some sections. If you can steer well and manage the short range, IS can do some nice flashy kills.
Thunder: 3.5 second load time+4 targets hits and reliably killed (the initial lightning bolt can even bring them below half life if it crits, lol) lets you hit a cluster (lots of hobs spawn conveniently in groups of 4) and recast to hit an adjacant cluster comfortably at raft speed. the long range of thunder lets you hit things out of their composite bow/bolt range, and hit both banks from the middle of the river.
As for mp concerns... I can get max stars possible each leg (either 31 for cap, or kill -every- hob on second leg) and not use mp potions. Crash shot can and will miss, and while it will cost less mp... that's not really a problem. Once I get to the end of the raft, I jump ship and head over to the mana tunnel to refill. If it is night time, I can just go back and start a new raft trip and trans will tide me through on a second trip and I might need a single mp 100 (if previous rafters have pulled survivors far form their spawn points that I need to kill single targets with thunder) and it will be morning at the end of that trip.
G13 with new int formula and lightning mastery will increase thunder damage further, and reduce mp cost. I think it'll still be a contender for best rafting strategy; either remain the best, or be a very close second to crash shot.