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Yanm wrote on 2010-09-20 18:58
Quote from EndlessDreams;161038:
You will never be able to tell the difference between the two damages. The damage difference between a Masamune and Dustin Sword at level 50 stats is around 15 max damage.
If you are smash for over 1k non-critical each time, you won't suddenly realize that you are missing around 75 damage or so. (Depending on how game determines max damage)
Either way, they are both losing to dual wield+ego when doing WMs for damage.
While you can use regular ego pots to repair a Dustin Sword (still expensive), you can't really do it with a Masamune. Most people would just spam NX repair pots for both of them anyways.
True that they both lose out to windmill damage, but I prefer the stun more than the damage. The crit difference seems to be around.....7%. Hmmm......It is true that a Masamune will be MUCH harder to repair, as if I randomly found a dustin sword, I could prof that to repair lol. Dustin vs Masamune.....any other advice anyone
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pataterose wrote on 2010-09-20 19:13
as a rule of thumb i go for max damage once i get the 30% crit needed for crit (even while being potion poisoned).
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Yanm wrote on 2010-09-22 16:56
All right, I believe I'm leaning more towards a Masamune ego. I'll probably go with that, or a glad because of the extremely cheap repairs. However, I have another question. I'm not fully understanding how to calculate how much crit you need to crit some monsters. Monsters like the Siren are easy to do, along with Shadow Lancers and Warriors. 30% and higher I can do. But what about monsters with say...20% protection? Would the max you need be 60%? 70%? And what about Alby Adv HM monsters(Not that I dream of critting them)? 70%+70%=140%+....30%?=170%. I mostly add up the percentages, then add 30 to the sum. Am I doing this right?
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sakraycore wrote on 2010-09-22 16:59
You need double the monster's protection + 30%. If a monster has 50Prot you need 130% crit for 30% chance.
All branches of combat has a way to combat high prot monsters AFAIK.
Melee - Windmill
Range - Crash Shot
Magic - Fireball
I'm not really stressed about crit because I know there are skills which penetrate monster prot.
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Yanm wrote on 2010-09-22 17:18
Quote from sakraycore;162893:
You need double the monster's protection + 30%. If a monster has 50Prot you need 130% crit for 30% chance.
All branches of combat has a way to combat high prot monsters AFAIK.
Melee - Windmill
Range - Crash Shot
Magic - Fireball
I'm not really stressed about crit because I know there are skills which penetrate monster prot.
Ahh ok I did it right. I know that there are skills that do that, but still, not having a chance to do a crit smash when I know I would be able to annoys me. Also, Crash Shot makes me wonder if Archers are gonna drop some crit now lol.
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sakraycore wrote on 2010-09-22 17:23
Well you have no way to know if you would be able to crit with a smash or not since you wouldn't be able to crit smash every time even with 200% critical anyways. It's still 30% and crit is always a gamble.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-22 18:59
Quote from Yanm;162903:
Ahh ok I did it right. I know that there are skills that do that, but still, not having a chance to do a crit smash when I know I would be able to annoys me. Also, Crash Shot makes me wonder if Archers are gonna drop some crit now lol.
Human archers might drop critical rate for damage. Our trump card is Arrow Revolver and it's mostly used for it's reliability.
Elves, on the other hand, would be stupid to lose the critical. Magnum shot means more to them than us and it doesn't ignore protection (compare Human's 1.5 second magnum to Elves 0.3 second final magnum.)
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sakraycore wrote on 2010-09-22 22:18
Arrow revolver doesn't ignore prot...
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Cryosite wrote on 2010-09-23 08:08
AR doesn't ignore prot, true. But getting crits on all 5 shots is unlikely no matter what your crit is. As Kaepro said, AR is used more for it's reliability... fast load speed, fast shooting, to allow for stunlocking and pushback. It's used because it loads out of WM or if you get knocked back.
Magnum is faster damage, especially with crits. 500% damage critting almost 1/3rd of the time is far more important than 2-3 shots out of 5 critting that total up to 490% damage and take longer.
3 human magnums is 1,500% damage with one of them critting on average brining the damage up to 1,750%. This takes 4.5 seconds of load time, plus 3 fast (point blank) aimings.
3 full AR barrages is 1470% damage. Assuming 5 of the 15 shots crit (being generous) that's 1,715% damage (also assuming even distribution of crits so that among the three barrages 1 of each of shot 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 crit. Slightly better damage if shot 5 crits more, less damage if other shots crit more). This takes a total of 3 seconds of load time, but 15 fast aims. Assumng 0.1 seconds to aim, that's 4.5 seconds compared to 4.8 seconds of magnum. an extra 35% damage for only .3 seconds more can be a large amount of damage when your max damage is around 200 or so.
Realistically, 0.1 seconds to aim is no mistakes, 0 lag. Crit is also 30%, not 33% so the amount of crits for AR is pretty generous. Under less ideal conditions, Magnum's slight advantage will actually be a bit higher as it (5.1 seconds if each shot takes 0.2 to load, compare to AR taking 6 seconds).
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-23 12:09
Quote from sakraycore;163174:
Arrow revolver doesn't ignore prot...
Arrow Revolver is severely crippled by natural shield and high defense. Most importantly, it can't handle multiagro efficiently. Considering that Crash Shot slaughters the concept of multiagro by applying implosion damage to the only mob that will draw agro from the skill, Human archers have little reason to focus on ADACT and can now specialize in max damage.
Elves, on the other hand, will be split between those who focus on critical and those who focus on damage.
It will be interesting to see the details of bow/crossbow mastery.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-09-23 20:32
Dropping critical rate for damage for AR? If anything, it should be the reverse. Considering that AR has a damage reduction, the few +damage isn't going to mean very much when your damage with bow is more than 200+ max damage. (I suppose some people are running around with 300+ max damage) Having critical rate helps with Magnum as well.
Also, even if you calculate 3 full AR doing almost 1500% damage, it will do significantly less than 3 Magnum because more shots are fired with AR. More shots means that the defense of a monster reduces it more times.
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Yanm wrote on 2010-09-28 03:29
Me again.....Yeah, I've been doing calculations myself about which to ego and I currently ran into a problem. I've looked at both egos extensively, but...my problem is that I decided to look at a 2hander to use for nomal usage. I looked at Claymores, and, I calculated the highest max path, with the upgrade coupon and a monster drop +3 max/min. Add the Rich and Crocodile and the gem upgrade for damage and I have 162 max and 33% crit. I think I've thrown the gladius out of the equation btw. Now, masamune max is 198 and 40% crit and the Claymore comes a bit close to that. I'm wondering if I should get a Masamune ego now, as I could use the Claymore as much as I want, and the masamune would be for bosses, yet, if I did get both, the difference in damag wouldn't be THAT big I guess.....
And if I chose to NOT get a Masamune, I'm thinking of either a Ring Bow ego or Crossbow ego. Which bow ego do you think would be better? And is my argument about the Claymore and Masamune even valid at all?
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-28 07:41
One thing you didn't take into account is that ego's aren't limited to lvl 40 stats anymore. The current max known damage of the Masamune is 221 and it'll probably increase by 4-7 once all max giving stats have been maxed. Also the Max damage Claymore only has 14-17% crit, where the Masamune would have around 45%. The Masamune also looks allot cooler hehe
But I do agree that having a sword that you could use all the time would be better than having one you'll just use on bosses. And the Claymore would be allot cheaper, but you'll have to invest some AP to have max effect of the Enchants. You'd also have to get your Ego's Str to lvl 40 before it equals the max damage of the Claymore. That alone will take ages longer and cost countless more than the Claymore.
You could always have both still, it would be up to your play style honestly. Do you like to use a Two-handed sword all the time, then the Claymore would be better. Do you just take your Two-hander out at the boss, then the Masamune. If you like both then you could always make both. And if the damage difference is still to low for you, then Ego a Dustin. It's got about 20 more max over the Masamune with about 8% less Crit.
I can't comment about the bows though, sorry.
Edit: On a side note the
Jousting Claymore has 167 Max damage, and it's probably much easier to get than ether of the options above. It's sepuriar to the Rich Crocodile Claymore in every way. But it can't be repaired.
Edit Edit: I think your numbers might be of a bit. I only get 156 Max damage for the Rich Crocodile Claymore.
(Max upgrade damage + Crocodile damage + damage from added 75 str + Gem upgrade damage)
93 + 29 +30 +4 = 156
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Yanm wrote on 2010-09-28 14:25
Quote from IceBlade;169293:
One thing you didn't take into account is that ego's aren't limited to lvl 40 stats anymore. The current max known damage of the Masamune is 221 and it'll probably increase by 4-7 once all max giving stats have been maxed. Also the Max damage Claymore only has 14-17% crit, where the Masamune would have around 45%. The Masamune also looks allot cooler hehe
But I do agree that having a sword that you could use all the time would be better than having one you'll just use on bosses. And the Claymore would be allot cheaper, but you'll have to invest some AP to have max effect of the Enchants. You'd also have to get your Ego's Str to lvl 40 before it equals the max damage of the Claymore. That alone will take ages longer and cost countless more than the Claymore.
You could always have both still, it would be up to your play style honestly. Do you like to use a Two-handed sword all the time, then the Claymore would be better. Do you just take your Two-hander out at the boss, then the Masamune. If you like both then you could always make both. And if the damage difference is still to low for you, then Ego a Dustin. It's got about 20 more max over the Masamune with about 8% less Crit.
I can't comment about the bows though, sorry.
Edit: On a side note the Jousting Claymore has 167 Max damage, and it's probably much easier to get than ether of the options above. It's sepuriar to the Rich Crocodile Claymore in every way. But it can't be repaired.
Edit Edit: I think your numbers might be of a bit. I only get 156 Max damage for the Rich Crocodile Claymore.
(Max upgrade damage + Crocodile damage + damage from added 75 str + Gem upgrade damage)
93 + 29 +30 +4 = 156
I did take the level 50 stats in account, I just don't think I'd reach them to be honest....And, with the Claymore, you forgot to add in the marketplace coupon upgrade, which adds the same damage as Blade refinement 5, but adds 10 crit. Replace that upgrade for the 4th slot and the Claymore has 30% crit, 33 if using the one I have...err would get xD.
As for the numbers, with the Rich enchant, that's +55 str, and remember every 10 str=4 damage, every 2.5=1 damage, 25 str=10, and 30=12, so that's 22. Crocodile DOES add 29 max, but being giant sided or being a giant adds +20 str, which is 8 damage, and that makes 37. And finally, the gem upgrade for damage is +7. Also, that Claymore that I'd have is a +3 max/+3 min, so that's 96 max with only upgrades, 103 with the gem. 96+37+22+7=162. Along with having 33% crit to boot.
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IceBlade wrote on 2010-09-28 15:04
Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot about the +3 Max/min claymore you were going to use and the +4 instead of +7 was a reading error on my part.
I think they main question you should be asking yourself is, do you want a strong Two-Handed Ego end game? If the answer is yes, then you should make the Masamune Ego now and feed it till all stats have been max. In the mean time make yourself a the Rich Crocodile Claymore or Jousting Claymore for everyday use.
If the answer is maybe or no then you should consider making a different Ego and just getting the Claymore. Or consider not having an Ego at all.
I personally think you should only use Max lvl stats to decide on an Ego. Yes it might take a very long time and cost allot to get there, but that's the point of an Ego weapon. Making an investment now, so that sometime in the future you'll have the best possible weapon to use. I think the Claymore is a really good primary weapon to use weather you're making the Ego or not.