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Cannibal wrote on 2010-09-18 02:19
Quote from Shirayuki;159204:
No offense, but I think a lot of people are mean to you sometimes :<
This, and you seem to bring it upon yourself a lot.
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Taycat wrote on 2010-09-18 02:31
Quote from Sin;159209:
This, and you seem to bring it upon yourself a lot.
You see me "trollin" ya "hatin".
I still remember being called a troll by somebody long ago.....:3
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Chiri wrote on 2010-09-18 04:23
Finnea: I've decided that while there are things about you that I'm not comfortable with, I'm fine sharing a forum with you, respectfully. I do think you have posted bit too freely on some topics and have crossed some boundaries. And that's what brought about the whole Megabyte/Virtue/Cablecrook mess.
I'm not against open talk about sexuality given the right environment. Again, I want to say that I've been infracted for much less than some of the things you let through.
Quote from Finnea;159175:
stop bringing up the parenting thing. If the parent doesn't want them looking at something like this, then it's their fault for letting them.
Parents might let kids read a forum about a video game, but I don't think parents should be held accountable for all the other topics assuming its a pg13 forum.
Quote from Finnea;159175:
If you don't like it, then why read it? Why post in it? Why even acknowledge its existance?
I don't like many, many things. Like racism, animal abuse, human torture, injustice, purposeful ignorance, what have you. Where would we be if the norm was not talking about it? I thought the whole purpose of your ultimatum was so that we could understand you via questions.
My posts here aren't trying to paint you as a nymphomaniac. I don't have something against you, really. I do think some of the administrative decisions here are being made a bit hastily, though.
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Kueh wrote on 2010-09-18 04:38
First off, I bet I come off as mean to some people because I like to be frank. Secondly, I don't know what happened between who, so I probably already don't have any business saying anything, but here I go.
I think a warning is a must. It's a must during war. It was a must when Jefferson wrote the Declaration. It will be a must in the future.
Sometimes, people don't realize that what they're doing is mean at all, especially if no one says anything. Regarding the PM when someone asked for Virtue to be spoken to, was he actually spoken to? If no one says to him, and not a mod, that what he says makes users feel uncomfortable, how could he know, and then how could he back down?
I try to stay away from heated, spirited debates, because I know that, on the internet, there will be no true discussion, no bringing of logical evidence, and no changing of people's minds. That's just the way debates on the internet work, with each side becoming more and more passionate about their respective side. So people slinging venom should be expected when heated debates come around (coughlikethisone), and be treated with a bit more understanding because it's harder to be rational while on the internet.
On the subject of Finnea vs Virtue....That's really a tricky subject. It'd be best if you could think of the situation from both angles. Finnea probably gets a lot of crap for something that isn't really easily controlled. So that warrants understanding. But at the same time, it's highly unreasonable to ask people to be okay with something like that. It would be like a satanist walking into a church saying, "I love satan" and expecting the clergy to say, "That's a very brave thing to say. I both respect and understand your compassions."
I am not advocating support for either side in that matter, but just as it would be unreasonable to expect Finnea to say, "You know, thanks to your guidance, I've been able to change something integral to my person, and I have seen that I was in error," it's just as unreasonable to expect Virtue to say, "You know, I would normally, under any other circumstance, been totally disturbed, but I respect your bravery and support you."
Just not happening.
Such a deep seated belief (for both sides) simply will not be changed, so it would be easier if everyone just dropped the subject starting now, and forgot it ever happened.
Whether or not the ban was truly warranted, Virtue should have received a warning. And I don't mean a warning from in the past, like, "I warned you months ago to straighten up", I mean he should have got something recent like, "Virtue, your current behavior on the forums is disturbing others. Please do less of (insert infraction here)"
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Finnea wrote on 2010-09-18 07:23
Quote from Whyrainfalls;159277:
Sometimes, people don't realize that what they're doing is mean at all, especially if no one says anything. Regarding the PM when someone asked for Virtue to be spoken to, was he actually spoken to? If no one says to him, and not a mod, that what he says makes users feel uncomfortable, how could he know, and then how could he back down?
I'm not sure if it got though, but I asked Saani to make sure he understood that he offended me.
On the subject of Finnea vs Virtue....That's really a tricky subject. It'd be best if you could think of the situation from both angles. Finnea probably gets a lot of crap for something that isn't really easily controlled. So that warrants understanding. But at the same time, it's highly unreasonable to ask people to be okay with something like that. It would be like a satanist walking into a church saying, "I love satan" and expecting the clergy to say, "That's a very brave thing to say. I both respect and understand your compassions."
I love your analogy, and you're right. HOWEVER! I'm trying to reach an understanding people. Depending how you look at pedophilia I'm not a pedophile. Seriously don't know why I'm getting all this crap for sleeping with young women either. The only pedophilic thing I have actually done would be read loli/shota. I don't see other loli/shota fans getting trolled for it. I like 2d, but I have a certain view that can be pointed out as a sign of pedophilia.
I believe that love goes beyond all walls. Whether it be age, race, gender, sex. Love will overcome, and when you want to move on to more serious thing, you'll know the right time. It will be natural to you.
Also I want to mention that I talked to Kazuni for an OK on that thread before I posted it.
ALSO THIS:
PG-13:"Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13."
PG-13 is thus a sterner warning to
parents to determine for themselves the attendance in particular of their younger children as they might consider some material not suited for them. Parents, by the rating, are alerted to be very careful about the attendance of their under-teenage children. A PG-13 film is one which, in the view of the Rating Board, leaps
beyond the boundaries of the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, or other contents, but does not quite fit within the restricted R category.
Any drug use content will initially require at least a PG-13 rating. In effect, the PG-13 cautions parents with more stringency than usual to give special attention to this film before they allow their 12-year olds and younger to attend.
If nudity is sexually oriented, the film will generally not be found in the PG-13 category. If violence is too rough or persistent, the film goes into the R (restricted) rating. A film's single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words,
though only as an expletive, shall initially require the Rating Board to issue that film at least a PG-13 rating. More than one such expletive must lead the Rating Board to issue a film an R rating, as must even one of these words used in a sexual
context. These films
can be rated less severely, however, if by a special vote, the Rating Board feels that a lesser rating would more responsibly reflect the opinion of American parents. PG-13 places larger responsibilities on parents for their children's moviegoing.
The voluntary rating system is not a surrogate parent, nor should it be. It cannot, and should not, insert itself in family decisions that only parents can, and should, make. Its purpose is to give prescreening advance informational warnings, so that parents can form their own judgments. PG-13 is designed to make these parental decisions easier for films between PG and R.
SOURCE:
http://www.ign.com/mpaa.html
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-09-18 10:34
Here's a few things we all need to do.
1. Apologize to each other.
It may not solve our differences, but it sure does solve our troubles.
Virtue, you offended Finnea. And Finnea, you offended Virtue and Chiri and whoever didn't agree with you going after teenage girls. We now know to keep those opinions to ourselves, right? Especially since we just cannot agree with each other. The last week was pure evidence of this.
Just apologize, even if you don't agree. It makes you the bigger person in the situation.
2. Accept each other.
Agree to disagree. The satanist walking into the Catholic Church is a fantastic analogy. Sure, we shouldn't throw rocks at a Satanist who walks into our Church, but we can learn to accept the differences between us. I love God, you don't. And to avoid any altercation between us, please respect me and don't walk into my Church, that's all I ask.
One side may not like pedophiles, but Finnea, I believe you shouldn't have labeled yourself as one in the first place. It would've caused less trouble to say, "Oh, I'm attracted to teenage girls." Much less trouble.
And Virtue, I know that this issue is an important one to you, but personal attacks are never good ways to prove a point. Maybe to round up a crowd, but never to prove a point.
So let's accept to disagree. Push all personal feelings aside, as hard as it may be, and be respectful to each other. I believe we can all do it.
3. Move on.
We may have had our heated arguments in the past, but that's done now. We're not little kids anymore, we know how to move on when the time is right. The time is now.
Virtue's initial reaction might gotten him banned had he been a newcomer, but keep in mind that a lot of governments have no tolerance for pedophiles or child porn on the internet; it is illegal in the United States, therefore Finnea would have also gotten banned in most places had she been a newcomer.
But both of these people are our friends and that's why we have a hard time deciding what's right. For Kazuni and I, especially. That's what makes us imperfect, as Pikablu stated in his post.
I think Virtue deserves a second chance. And CableCrook as well. But we need to be civil, guys. How do you expect me to listen to you when all you're doing is just berating me and insulting me? What point do you want to get across that way?
I am a moderator. I cannot keep involving myself in situations like this. I can't save you every time, man. You are a good person, but I didn't agree with you saying those things to Finnea myself. I didn't think it was right.
But I believe the good in you outweighs the bad. Same with CableCrook (Tyson).
You're both funny individuals, helpful, you stick up for other people. Sure, you've had problems with the staff before, but you are both different now.
I remember Virtue defending Tomates one time when she posted the story behind Createblog.com and the idiot who kept harrassing her there.
And Tyson is always posting suggestions and ideas on how to become a pro-Elf. Always helping with Mabinogi, even when he's rarely here.
They are good people. Good people like Finnea, even though I personally don't agree with sexual attractions to minors. But her good also outweighs the bad. That's why you all deserve second chances, as people.
You know, the second time Kraken was banned, I wanted to give him a second chance. I believed he had potential to be a fun guy, but he soon proved me wrong. He was offensive and disrespectful, perhaps like you, but his intent was different. He was set on offending people. You weren't.
You were merely expressing your distaste in a rather distasteful manner. A warning should have sufficed. A three-day ban, a week-long ban as well, but not a permanent one.
You weren't trolling, like Kraken. For the most part, we were actually discussing why you thought pedophilia was disgusting. I saw you.
This is why I support unbanning these two. A permanent ban just doesn't seem fair in this situation, when you look at it from all angles. We must be impartial and I'm sorry if I haven't been lately. But really, a permanent ban just isn't fair here.
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Virtue wrote on 2010-09-20 10:16
Still no unban for Virtue?
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Piko wrote on 2010-09-20 10:28
Don't see why you guys just unban him since you're allowing Virtue to use a second account o3o;
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Osayidan wrote on 2010-09-20 12:35
I'll take care of all that nonsense when I get home from work.
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Osayidan wrote on 2010-09-20 23:06
Virtue2 merged into Virtue and unbanned.
Cablecrook unbanned.
The next thing that gets reported for these users until the end of October(if it's valid) results in a ban that I won't listen to any arguments about.