Their Method of doing Windmill

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Shanghai wrote on 2010-09-29 23:12

You should probably mention another skill that isn't from the Range skill set to further expand on how why Their Method is good for training other skills than just WM. For example, Zombies are great for training Flamer since you only need hits and knockbacks from strong, awful, boss monsters for it to gain skill profiency. Since Flamer deals only 1s on Zombies due to their level 3 mana deflector and how they're all grouped up, you can gain up to 4 knockback requirements in just 1 charge without harming the enemy at all, allowing you to spam Flamer and train it up real quick. I got Flamer from rank 9 to rank 1 in just an hour(probably less) with all my stockpiled AP from grinding on zombies.
Ailyene wrote on 2010-09-30 00:43

Great guide! I discovered this SM through that "how do you level" thread before and if I focus on the SM (so not afking to go do other things), I can finish hard in about 15 minutes average and 12-13 minutes if a trans is included. It was really really awesome EXP during the 2x exp event (haven't gotten a burgundy bear enchant yet though. Just a bunch of useless crystals). The only downside to this SM is that it's boring as heck. x.x

Do you think it's more beneficial exp wise to do hard or adv?
Jando wrote on 2010-09-30 10:04

Quote from Ailyene;171073:
Great guide! I discovered this SM through that "how do you level" thread before and if I focus on the SM (so not afking to go do other things), I can finish hard in about 15 minutes average and 12-13 minutes if a trans is included. It was really really awesome EXP during the 2x exp event (haven't gotten a burgundy bear enchant yet though. Just a bunch of useless crystals). The only downside to this SM is that it's boring as heck. x.x

Do you think it's more beneficial exp wise to do hard or adv?

You would have to do your own test. I tested myself with Adv and Inter. Adv took 9:10 and the Inter took 5:40 so adv is better for me. You just have to time your average on adv and hard. You would need to do adv at least twice in the time it takes you to run 1 on Hard which is only plausible if you could 1hko all zombies 100% of the time and use a thoroughbred throughout the whole thing.

You would only benefit from 10k more exp and another chance in 15mins to get a burgundy bear ES
Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-30 12:48

In the guide, 8 groups of 4 and one group of 12 is not 36 zombies.

Quote from Jando;170807:
230 Gladius' are actually better since their average damage is 61

Bzzt! Wrong answer.

Because WM ignores protection average damage due to crit is as simple as: Average damage added from crit = Max dmg * (1 + crit multipier) * crit rate

Assuming 30% crit rate and r1 crit we find:

Gladius: 67 * 2.5 * .3 = 50.25
Broadsword: 73 * 2.5 * .3 = 54.75

Add these to the average damage listed above and we have:

Gladius: 50.25 + 60.6 = 110.85
Broadsword: 54.74 + 58.4 = 113.15

Broadsword wins damage over time. And that was assuming you have a 30% crit rate with the 5% base gladii.
Jando wrote on 2010-09-30 13:31

Quote from Omegatronic;171553:
In the guide, 8 groups of 4 and one group of 12 is not 36 zombies.

lol what? Now how did I miss that...I feel stupid now. 8x4 = 32 derp...means theres a total of 44 zombies. Mecountgood. Thanks for noticing that, i'll go ahead and change all the data now.

Quote from Omegatronic;171553:

Bzzt! Wrong answer.

Because WM ignores protection average damage due to crit is as simple as: Average damage added from crit = Max dmg * (1 + crit multipier) * crit rate

Assuming 30% crit rate and r1 crit we find:

Gladius: 67 * 2.5 * .3 = 50.25
Broadsword: 73 * 2.5 * .3 = 54.75

Add these to the average damage listed above and we have:

Gladius: 50.25 + 60.6 = 110.85
Broadsword: 54.74 + 58.4 = 113.15

Broadsword wins damage over time. And that was assuming you have a 30% crit rate with the 5% base gladii.

Hmm...never knew 290 Gladius' were better. Better go change that now...Broads > Gladius' when they take less WPZ.

EDIT: Added changes.
Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-30 14:10

I skimmed over the guide the first time through, and missed your reward/experience section. I was going to suggest you add one, but now I need to suggest that if half the zombies are male and half are female there are not 21 of each. Also, do not forget the battle participation exp.
Jando wrote on 2010-09-30 14:14

Quote from Omegatronic;171581:
I skimmed over the guide the first time through, and missed your reward/experience section. I was going to suggest you add one, but now I need to suggest that if half the zombies are male and half are female there are not 21 of each. Also, do not forget the battle participation exp.

I'm estimating here since I do not know the spawns of the exact groups. From my numerous Their Methods I've come up that on average half of the zombies in Their Method are male and the other half are female. I've also included battle participation into those calculations...which reminds me, I need to add some more.
Zid wrote on 2010-09-30 14:27

Quote from Omegatronic;171553:
Because WM ignores protection average damage due to crit is as simple as: Average damage added from crit = Max dmg * (1 + crit multipier) * crit rate

Assuming 30% crit rate and r1 crit we find:

Gladius: 67 * 2.5 * .3 = 50.25
Broadsword: 73 * 2.5 * .3 = 54.75

Add these to the average damage listed above and we have:

Gladius: 50.25 + 60.6 = 110.85
Broadsword: 54.74 + 58.4 = 113.15

Broadsword wins damage over time. And that was assuming you have a 30% crit rate with the 5% base gladii.

You have a good point about the Critical.

However, I tend not to add Critical to the average damage formula considering it never feels like 30% to me. Probably biased against Mabinogi's probability system though.
Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-30 14:27

Quote from Jando;171583:
I'm estimating here since I do not know the spawns of the exact groups. From my numerous Their Methods I've come up that on average half of the zombies in Their Method are male and the other half are female. I've also included battle participation into those calculations...which reminds me, I need to add some more.

21 + 21 = ??
*whistles innocently*
psyal wrote on 2010-09-30 14:37

Should I point out that there's 44 total?
Jando wrote on 2010-09-30 14:49

So oblivious tonight >.< My bad once again...

Exp values have been added, they are correct with the right numbers.

Quote from Zid;171587:
You have a good point about the Critical.

However, I tend not to add Critical to the average damage formula considering it never feels like 30% to me. Probably biased against Mabinogi's probability system though.

I agree. I've done this mission on Adv and Inter with the same equips, stats and no trans and gotten a buttload more crits in Inter then I did in adv.
Jando wrote on 2010-09-30 17:23

So oblivious tonight >.< My bad once again...

Exp values have been added, they are correct with the right numbers.

Quote from Zid;171587:
You have a good point about the Critical.

However, I tend not to add Critical to the average damage formula considering it never feels like 30% to me. Probably biased against Mabinogi's probability system though.

I agree. I've done this mission on Adv and Inter with the same equips, stats and no trans and gotten a buttload more crits in Inter then I did in adv.

Edit: Added a new section

10. The Satsumori Test
December wrote on 2010-10-02 08:08

Quote from Meron;170752:
10-15 Minutes is way too slow in my opinion
I do INT in 3-5 Minutes (Can't do ADV yet only total lvl 1xx) You said you do ADV in 10-15 minutes so...
I get about 74398 - 185995 EXP while you get about 63000 EXP = I lvl 2x faster than you on average
Just saying that your 10-15 minutes is way too much

Yeah but INT doesn't get me boss kills with my -CP set :L, but yeah I'm pretty slow, dont have any real STR or melee weapons x_x
Jando wrote on 2010-10-02 12:09

Quote from Meron;170752:
10-15 Minutes is way too slow in my opinion
I do INT in 3-5 Minutes (Can't do ADV yet only total lvl 1xx) You said you do ADV in 10-15 minutes so...
I get about 74398 - 185995 EXP while you get about 63000 EXP = I lvl 2x faster than you on average
Just saying that your 10-15 minutes is way too much

Impossible. Being only 1xx, its impossible to do INT in 3-5 mins. I was 2hko 100% and 1hko 100% with crits and it still took me 6mins and I was using a mount to get to place to place. That was after I did a Adv run in 9mins.
Meron wrote on 2010-10-02 12:48

Quote from Jando;173360:
Impossible. Being only 1xx, its impossible to do INT in 3-5 mins. I was 2hko 100% and 1hko 100% with crits and it still took me 6mins and I was using a mount to get to place to place. That was after I did a Adv run in 9mins.

[Image: http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4318/mabinogi20101002002.jpg]

Screenshot prove don't call me a lier again lol...

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