Quote from IceBlade;178271:

I just have one question about your calculations. Why do you use Max damage to calculate the added crit damage? The wiki clearly says it's base damage.

My formula was based on what the wiki said when I learned how to calculate crit over a year ago.

sometimes the wiki gets edited with information that has not been verified. In this case, the wiki page read that crit modified max damage for over a year before someone claimed that they did lower damage than what a modified max damage should give, and then changed the wiki, last month, to reflect his views.

If I feel energetic, I'll go punch foxes to try to verify the change in the wiki. If I am wrong, I am wrong, because the wiki at one time was wrong. If I cant verify, then the wiki is wrong now. I know, I know-- the all-knowing wiki wrong? blasphemy!

EDIT:
Ok, after punching foxes for a good 5 minutes, and acquiring 10-20 crits in the process, I failed to generate a damage that was less than I expected. (crit modified max) However, what I was expecting is not the formula I used in this post. In other words the formula I used was wrong. :-(

avg crit
Gladius: 67 * 1.5 * .3 = 30.15
Broadsword: 73 * 1.5 * .3 = 32.85

avg dmg
280 glad: 67*.8+35*(1-.8) = 60.6
270-2 glad: 67*.8+45*(1-.8) = 62.6
222 broad: 73*.8+0*(1-.8) = 58.4

total avg
280 glad: 60.6 + 30.15 = 90.75
270-2 glad: 62.6 + 30.15 = 92.85
222 broad: 58.4 + 32.85 = 91.25

Which, while not changing my original that 222's were better than 280 glads, it does change my conclusions for the 222 v 270-2 glad.

My apologies Aubog007, you were right 270-2's are better WM swords if you get your crit rate up to 29 or 30%.

Edit 2:

25 more minutes of smiting foxes and I see no evidence to support a crit damage other than the one that was in the wiki for over a year (crit modified max).

Edit to avoid double post:

I ran numbers on three other swords. All of which require special upgrades. All are superior to the weapons already mentioned.

avg dmg:
251 battlesword: 74*.8+21*(1-.8) = 63.4
214 Bastardsword: 77*.8+30*(1-.8) = 67.6
204 Bastardsword: 77*.8+20*(1-.8) = 65.6

avg crit:
battlesword: 74 * 1.5 *.3 = 33.3
bastardsword: 77 * 1.5 * .3 = 34.65

total avg:
251 battlesword: 63.4 + 33.3 = 96.7
214 Bastardsword: 67.6 + 34.65 = 102.25
204 Bastardsword: 65.6 + 34.65 = 100.25

Quote from Omegatronic;177895:

Once you get beyond ohko's, consistancy = damage over time. Which is what we were calculating.

270-2 gladius (45-67 dmg)
avg dmg: 67*.8+45*(1-.8) = 62.6
avg crit dmg: 67 * 2.5 * .3 = 50.25

Total avg 270-2 glad = 112.85

If you have 30 crit with the 0% base crit of the 270-2, you won't notice the extra .3 avg damage of the broadsword. But seeing as the 270-2 is marginally inferior, I'd think people would be hard pressed to agree it "highly outclasses" the broadsword.

Talking about 1HKOs not 2HKOs
What weapon would you prefer. A weapon that Overskills and runs the risk of actually NOT killing the mob with lower end damage?
Or a weapon that 1HKOs all the time and never runs the risk of leaving an enemy alive (barring deadly of course)

Keep in mind this is for grinding purposes. you want something that makes it quick and fast.

All other practical purposes go for broads or battle swords.
Gladius Min damage is Very practical for their method.
Even for Adv.

Quote from Aubog007;181717:

Talking about 1HKOs not 2HKOs
What weapon would you prefer. A weapon that Overskills and runs the risk of actually NOT killing the mob with lower end damage?
Or a weapon that 1HKOs all the time and never runs the risk of leaving an enemy alive (barring deadly of course)

Keep in mind this is for grinding purposes. you want something that makes it quick and fast.

All other practical purposes go for broads or battle swords.
Gladius Min damage is Very practical for their method.
Even for Adv.

The more HP the mobs has, the less it matters.

...I grind on hard so I couldn't care less.

You'd obviously want the weapon that gives less WPZ (windmills per zombie). For 1 test of Their Method adv, I averaged 1.5 wm's per zombie for my broads. Now seeing how these glads can give more effect I might make some and test them myself, however with my broads having Goddess Caliburn on them vs' probably only Giant ES on the glads will win out.

The input from you guys is awesome. Thanks.

Quote from Aubog007;181717:

Talking about 1HKOs not 2HKOs

Except in the post I replied to, you weren't just talking about ohko's. If the minimum damage of the weapon allows you to ohko your target, then it is preferable to a weapon that has a chance of not ohko'ing the target. However, once you go beyond the ohko and start talking 2, 3, 4, or more hits to KO your target, average damage is consistency.

what lvl wm do u reccomend?

9,5,1

5 being optimal if you don't want to get to r1.

ahhh im only like rank E wm i suck :(

Added '4.6 Walls' o3o

Having rank 1 wm and OK strength, i still only do up to Their method inter most of the times.

Because their method inter is a two hit kill, one hit crit kill for me I enjoy it more. I could do hard but you know, who wants to keep hitting it endlessly til its dead :S

Quote from Knightmehre;221517:

Having rank 1 wm and OK strength, i still only do up to Their method inter most of the times.

Because their method inter is a two hit kill, one hit crit kill for me I enjoy it more. I could do hard but you know, who wants to keep hitting it endlessly til its dead :S

But it nets your more money in the long run with 1) They drop more gold 2) You can get Burgundy Bear ES from rewards. And if you can successfully using the wall technique then TM HM can go very smoothly. Its only when you separate them does it get annoying, hard and tedious since you have to use seperate wm's to take out 1.6k hp backed up by 40 def and 59% protection. That 59% protection also means that it negates 59% of our attacks after def is calculated. Walling makes wm spammable and can make a group of them die in a matter of seconds compared to minutes and can turn 15min TM HM into 10min and lower.

I just want to say that I've done Their Method hard tons of times and the most valuable thing I've ever gotten was a shock page 5 I couldn't sell haha. But anyways, my question is for everyone who spams their method int-> hard a lot: How often do you get a Vicious enchant? I want to get one but I've never gotten one out of all of my Their Method hard runs. =/

I haven't gotten any Vicious ES and I've been spamming them each rb to 60 a week. However I have gotten 2 Burgundy Bear ES, 10 Giant ES, 15 Water Drop ES and 5 Windmill ES.