I don't agree with homosexuality

• abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-05 21:16
  WTH? why did you bring bible into this? Using Bible to hate against another group is really done by extremists and all it does is make my religion look bad.
  
  And Thank you chiri for the term homonegativity. I think that best defines what I am.
  
  *soo many posts to make a reply to e.e*
  
  Here is what I wanted this discussion to be about:
  First,
  

  Quote from abc33kr;175724:

  
  Okay so tell me about how you feel about homosexuality or try to explain what it is like. Remember I won't give into agreeing with homosexuality, but I am still willing to listen.

  
  This part in my original post said that I have my own view, but I am willing to listen to the views of homosexuality because I want to learn more about them and build tolerance (idk why people think tolerance is a negative word. I thought it was a synonym to acceptance). And my view on tolerance is that only by learning about homosexuality, I can accept it more, since otherwise I would be full of false fears about homos (Maybe I should just pm Phunkie to teach me). Although some people were really helpful in teaching me more about homosexuality (cough Chiri with the term homonegativity and homosexuality in other species and Phunkie and Bieber for showing other angles of homosexuality), some people really made me turn against homosexuals with condemning and ridiculing my view without fully understanding it, which gives me the impression that all homosexuality supporters are like reverse nazis who hates anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality (Maybe you guys were too aggressive in your posts, your attitude destroyed the friendly discussion I wanted this thread to be).
  
  @the person who brought up bible into this issue:
  

  Quote from abc33kr;175724:

  It's not like my opposition is based on religion or "morals"

  
  I never wanted Bible in this issue. Christians lost many people due to extremist Christians using the Bible as a hate tool. Bible should NEVER be used in homosexuality discussions.
  
  
  The thing I don't get is that why do I HAVE TO agree with Homosexuality? Maybe I was too vague on my original post, I want my first amendment rights, take ur privacy constitutional right, idc. Just STOP the community from pressuring and threatening me to agree with something I don't believe in. Those who force homosexual belief into me are JUST LIKE Christian extremist who go up to random people with pamphlet saying that they will go to hell if they don't believe in Christ or Muslim extremist who go up to random people with gun saying "I KILL YOU" if you don't worship alah.
  
  
  I am still not expert in the homosexuality discussion, so my views may have been vague in my previous posts. But I want to learn more about it without my views being changed. What harm do I do to homosexuals? NONE. Just like how you taught me to don't mind homosexual's business and judge them since they don't affect me, Don't Judge me because I don't harm you in any ways. Just like how genes make homosexuals gay, maybe my genes make me not support homosexuality.
  
  *For people who didn't read my post on page 3 or something, I ADMIT that some of my views on my first page were radical/flawed/extreme and Phunkie showed me kindly that I shouldn't come up with my "solutions" and that homosexuality is not a problem. From that I learned and I built up more tolerance/acceptance. So next time someone use those to derail this thread, I will call you Captain Obvious and ignore you.
  
  Again I repeat, the point of this thread was to just discuss about homosexuality and teaching each other things that they didn't know. Just like how I didn't know some things about homosexuality, maybe there are some things that homos don't know about heterosexuality. THERE IS NO POINT IN "CONVERTING" people into your view.
  
  

  Quote from Chiri;176446:

  Homosexual behavior has been cited to occur in ~1,500 species, and is well documented for 500 of them [Bagemihl (1999)].
  From that list, there are 216 mammals. 148 birds. 15 fish. 29 reptiles. 4 amphibians. 71 insects.
  
  And the list is incomplete, because not many species get behaviorists studying them.
  How are any of these species an exception?

  
  
  thx for this information. I was going to eventually ask this, but it's already answered
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 21:16

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;176492:

  More logical fallacy. This one is an inverse of the Appeal to Majority. Normally this fallacy says that, just because something is common, or that a lot of people agree, makes it right or gives it some inherent truth. This is working backward saying that just because something is uncommon, somehow suggests negative things, or somehow its significance is downplayed.

  
  
  Ok, let's back track here. My argument was basically that you cannot deny that homosexuality is not normal. As such, the argument spouted out by queers that homosexuality is just "another normal lifestyle" is totally fallacious.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-05 21:19

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176500:

  Ok, let's back track here. My argument was basically that you cannot deny that homosexuality is not normal. As such, the argument spouted out by queers that homosexuality is just "another normal lifestyle" is totally fallacious.

  
  
  Nope.
  
  It's normal, just like laughter and sadness and crying over someone's death.
  
  You just deny it because you don't agree with it.
  
  Let's be honest now.
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-05 21:24

  Quote from IceBlade;176457:

  I know my God is real as well and he's with me 24/7/365 till my death, you can't say the same of any person.
  
  It's still inspired and the people are still guided by God.
  
  It doesn't affect you since you're not a Christian, so why complain about it? And I don't see how it's unfair. It's your choice to disregard God's laws, so it's only fair that you pay the penalty or repent your sins.

  
  
  Since your religion is the foremost factor in your views against homosexuality I'll go from there. You can't prove God exists/doesn't exist. What your basing your views off of is the way you were brought up, If you were brought up without religion I can say your views would be different. The fact that God himself doesn't have a problem with homosexuals being together, but the people who preach for God do brings up whether your actually believing in God, or in the people who stand in for him. Your not so much inspired bu God, as you are in the way the preacher manipulates the bible into making you believe. You believe that I'm going to be punished for my sins, I say bring it on. I will never be punished for my "sins" since I don't believe so therefore I'm not punished or ever will be punished, and that's fact. But in the eyes of a believer I will be punished because I'm committing sins.
  
  It's a tricky topic because neither of us believe in what the other believes. You can say I'm going to be punished and I can say I won't be. Just like a preacher says gays are sinful.
  
  Your believing in a book that was written and translated by many people. And it is no doubt that those people have made up the stories that are in the bible today based off their personal believes and morals. Yet it goes back so far and has been forced unto people (Holy Crusades, missionaries, etc) to unify people under a government based off the greed and lust of the rulers at the time. I do believe Jesus has existed but the stories and tales of what he did have been so skewed when they were told by mouth, and then eventually one version was put into a book.
  
  I have every right to say that I believe the bible is a massively produced and skewed fairy tale based off the views of those who wrote the book, and translated (and mistakes happen between translations) it over time, ever since it's initial creation. And you don't know for sure that God himself has inspired those people to right the bible. It's all based off of what if God is real?, and what if he actually did this? and this is how God wants you to behave and act throughout your lifetime. Religion itself has been such a long running standard that it has become normal, whose to say homosexuality wont eventually be a long running standard and become normal. It's just that at this moment in time not everyone in the world is accustomed to the idea of liking the same sex.
  
  And if this bothers you because it's disrespectful, how do you think I feel? Religion is a lifestyle, being gay is not.
  
  Sorry abc. I just had to reply to him :l
• Chiri wrote on 2010-10-05 21:25

  My argument was basically that you cannot deny that homosexuality is not normal.

  
  So many negatives. Your argument in plain language: homosexuality is not normal.
  The argument you're presented with: Homosexuality not not as common as heterosexuality, but both are normal.
  
  It's like saying, having black hair is not as common as having brown hair, but both are normal.
  It's like saying, having blue eyes is not as common as having green eyes, but both are normal.
  It's like saying, being as tall as Yao Ming is not as common as being 5'6", but both are normal.
  
  And they're all valid statements.
  
  

  As such, the argument spouted out by queers that homosexuality is just "another normal lifestyle" is totally fallacious.

  
  You're the one bringing 'lifestyle' into this.
  Being gay is not a lifestyle.
  
  If I go to school, do my homework, get grades, jump at the chance of free food, have a significant other and commiserate my life with friends, I have the lifestyle of the common college student, and that does not change whether or not my SO is male or female.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 21:29

  Quote from Phunkie;176506:

  Nope.
  
  It's normal, just like laughter and sadness and crying over someone's death.
  
  You just deny it because you don't agree with it.
  
  Let's be honest now.

  
  
  Ok, let's be honest... If being gay is just as normal as laughing and crying, then why is it that the majority of people are not gay?
  
  While we're talking about this, would you like to know why I consider homosexuality to be wrong (besides the Bible)? Well since we're being honest, I suppose you would be happy to!
  
  Here is a CDC document showing that STD's are much more prevalent among gays than straights: CDC Analysis Provides New Look at Disproportionate Impact of HIV and Syphilis Among U.S. Gay and Bisexual Men
  Here are a few more statistics:
  

  * The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8).
  
  * The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
  
  * Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8).
  
  * 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).

  
  
  SOURCE: Statistics on homosexuals
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-05 21:33
  Because society has such a big issue with homosexuals that it is impossible for it to become normal.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-05 21:36
  Oh come on, just admit it.
  
  If it were up to you, the world would be free of homosexuals. Why? Because you don't agree with it.
  
  It bothers you a lot. And since you can't find a good reason for your antipathy towards it, you use religion and false statements (like how it's unnatural) to backup why it's wrong.
  
  It's not wrong and I'm sorry you believe it is.
  
  If you were gay, you'd know. You'd sympathize with me, but you will never be gay. It's so unknown to you, so strange, you don't understand how two men or two women can enjoy a romantic relationship, full of love, sex, kisses, hugs, "I love you" calls during midday...
  
  Something as simple as a romantic relationship becomes horrendous to you when it involves two members of the same sex. It's unnerving to you, even though it doesn't affect you in the absolute. And you pay no mind to a gay person's feelings. You disregard all they've been through and you don't even believe they deserve the same rights as you (i.e. marriage, adoption).
  
  I'm sorry I'm not like you, straight person. But the truth is, I'm also very similar to you.
  
  I have a brother and a sister, whom I fight with often, probably like you. And I bleed just like you. And I smile and I cry on those days I'm feeling really down. And I'm passionate, just like you. But here's where we differ; I am fair.
  
  
  I know all these endless replies and responses between you and I will get me nowhere.
  
  I 'm sorry I can't convince you, not even to grant me the natural-born right of equality that I deserve, that same one you've been enjoying forever, simply for being straight.
  
  What is it about me that makes me so different from you?
  
  Can't you see that we're the same? You like apples, I like pears. Both completely natural, both completely right.
  
  Why can't you see that?
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 21:36

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176514:

  Ok, let's be honest... If being gay is just as normal as laughing and crying, then why is it that the majority of people are not gay?
  
  While we're talking about this, would you like to know why I consider homosexuality to be wrong (besides the Bible)? Well since we're being honest, I suppose you would be happy to!
  
  Here is a CDC document showing that STD's are much more prevalent among gays than straights: CDC Analysis Provides New Look at Disproportionate Impact of HIV and Syphilis Among U.S. Gay and Bisexual Men
  Here are a few more statistics:
  
  
  SOURCE: Statistics on homosexuals

  
  
  GOOD FOR YOU.
  So homosexuality spreads STDs more often, that's because idiots don't use protection.
  Did you know heterosexual people also have STDs!
  Did you know AIDS rates are really really high in Africa!
• Time wrote on 2010-10-05 21:37

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176514:

  Ok, let's be honest... If being gay is just as normal as laughing and crying, then why is it that the majority of people are not gay?
  
  While we're talking about this, would you like to know why I consider homosexuality to be wrong (besides the Bible)? Well since we're being honest, I suppose you would be happy to!
  
  Here is a CDC document showing that STD's are much more prevalent among gays than straights: CDC Analysis Provides New Look at Disproportionate Impact of HIV and Syphilis Among U.S. Gay and Bisexual Men
  Here are a few more statistics:
  
  
  SOURCE: Statistics on homosexuals

  
  
  Just....Just throwing this out here....Your against homosexuals because they are more likely to get STDS based on that poll? If your not homosexual why do you care....?
• Chiri wrote on 2010-10-05 21:40

  Ok, let's be honest... If being gay is just as normal as laughing and crying, then why is it that the majority of people are not gay?

  
  
  Something does not need to be in the majority to be normal.
  Also, your study covers MSM, which is not quite the same as identified gay and lesbian people. It covers sex acts, and not same sex attraction. That's a different boat.
  
  
  But I've concluded, Spartaaa, that you do not care about anyone's opinions and insist on spreading your own.
  You do not even add credible data to back your logic up. You lend nothing but hysteria.
  There's ultimately no reason to debate with you because you are not open to other opinions, like abc or Icy, might be.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-05 21:42
  QQ it took long to type my post and I'm ignored? :/
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-05 21:45
  You've explained your point (I did read it all) but I got nothing to say back :P
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-05 21:48

  Quote from Bieber;176532:

  You've explained your point (I did read it all) but I got nothing to say back :P

  
  
  Oh so I have freed myself from being a homophobic? xP
  
  Soo could we still make this thread into a friendly one discussing and clarifying the common fears that homophobics have? Maybe some day I will become tolerant/accepting enough to support homosexuality. I'm definitely considering joining that Gay-Straight Alliance to see how it is like.
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 21:48

  The thing I don't get is that why do I HAVE TO agree with Homosexuality? Maybe I was too vague on my original post, I want my first amendment rights, take ur privacy constitutional right, idc. Just STOP the community from pressuring and threatening me to agree with something I don't believe in. Those who force homosexual belief into me are JUST LIKE Christian extremist who go up to random people with pamphlet saying that they will go to hell if they don't believe in Christ or Muslim extremist who go up to random people with gun saying "I KILL YOU" if you don't worship alah.

  
  If you say at least say that you're not against it, that's already great in my book.
  The problem is when you say you disagree with it, it sounds like you are against it.