Husband Snaps On Abortion Protesters

• Juno wrote on 2010-10-28 21:47

  Quote from Ailyene;197373:

  I think murder is a very strong word and it's rather offensive to say that abortion is murder because then you're calling the mother a murderer. Which is apparently on the same level as homicide. However, I view an unborn baby the same way as what some people said before about the animals VS humans argument - I think what they were saying was that animals are on a lower level than human beings? Well for me, unborn babies are not counted as human beings yet and therefore are on an even lower level than animals. There's not much anyone can say to change my opinion because that's just how I see them. I can't see them as anything worthwhile when they don't even have a brain yet. It's like they're...well, plants.
  
  But then calling abortion murder would be saying that I support murder, which is totally wrong. I can't think of a better word to describe being anti-abortion for now, but murder is definitely not a good way to say it.

  
  
  So, should they use some other word that means the same thing? Whether people are offended or not, what is, is. From that viewpoint it's murder no matter how you feel about it, but if it helps I'm sure most won't hold it against you as a person since there can't be ill-intent if you don't even think you're killing something.
• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-28 22:12
  You can't really say "what is, is" because it's not officially murder (like defined by the law) so it's just your opinion. I'm saying that perhaps there are better words to describe your feelings than murder because murder is the wrong word to many and will offend. Right now I'm not saying that I and/or other people are offended because you are stating facts or telling the truth, because it's not a fact or truth. It sounds to me like you're saying it's truth that abortion is murder. If you aren't, then I apologize for misunderstanding.
  
  I'm not sure if I sound confusing, so I'll add this in: A person killing in self defense is not called a murderer because it's not defined by the law as murder, and a person aborting is not either because it's also not defined by the law. A person who kills in self defense will feel bad if you call him/her a murderer, right? It's the same with a person who aborts. It's not legally (and to many people, morally) bad, so using that word just doesn't seem right. I don't get how you can call a person a murderer yet...not hold their action against them, since the word by itself is an insult and only has negative connotations.
  
  I understand what you mean when you use the word "murder" in this thread, but I still feel uncomfortable seeing it as in my mind, murder is something much more horrible than abortion and cannot be used in this situation at all.
• Juno wrote on 2010-10-28 23:03
  If a person sees life as beginning at conception then abortion is killing that life, and thus, murder. It's a conditional truth in that it requires the whole life at conception business, but for someone in that group it inevitably follows. The real question, and I've said it comes down to this, is does life begin at conception? Clearly, you don't think so. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the reality of things. If A, then B, so to speak.
  
  Law is a poor basis for definition as it's constantly changing, though one could argue that an abortionist cannot be called a murderer with respect to the law which is also true as of now. However, we're not talking about with respect to the law here. The reason the word is inseparable is because it's necessary to convey how that particular group feels.
  
  Consider this. If someone murdered a person and insisted it was justified, would you hold off calling them a murderer if you were convinced it was unjust? Hardly.
• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-28 23:09
  I usually base my words off of dictionary definitions and law, so I define them all by that. Therefore, if the court ruled that the person did kill someone but it was not murder/it was okay (I mean it's pretty hard to make a mistake there since it should be either self-defense or an accident), I wouldn't call them a murderer.
  
  But what I mean is...maybe here is a better example. A lot of gay people will get offended if a group of people call them disgusting/unnatural/etc. Whether gays are disgusting or not is not truth but opinion. However, even if calling them disgusting is putting out that group's beliefs, it's still extremely offensive and there could be better ways of expressing being anti-gay than to say that. For me, using murder is on the same level as that because well...I mean, we call serial killers murderers and stuff, so does that mean a person who aborts is on the same level as a serial killer?
  
  Okay, whatever. I'm just nit-picking at words and language. If I'm the only one offended by you calling them murderers, then it doesn't matter. I think the person doing the aborting would feel terrible if you yelled murderer at them though...=/
• Juno wrote on 2010-10-28 23:28
  Law varies from place to place though, hence why it can cause misconceptions when used to define unless it's congruent all over.
  
  I don't think that's a better example. Disgusting is a reference to how something makes you feel, murderer is a label given to someone as a result of their actions. One is an opinion, the other is a description. As to whether a serial killer is on the same level, definitely not. Someone having an abortion almost definitely has no intent to end a life whereas a serial killer repeatedly and knowingly does just that.
  
  Probably. Yelling anything at anyone tends to get under their skin. I'm not advocating yelling of any sort and, I feel it would be prudent to repeat, I do think these protesters were way out of line.
• Zid wrote on 2010-10-28 23:59

  Quote from Ailyene;197553:

  Okay, whatever. I'm just nit-picking at words and language. If I'm the only one offended by you calling them murderers, then it doesn't matter. I think the person doing the aborting would feel terrible if you yelled murderer at them though...=/

  
  
  Homicide? Homicide is neutral in the legal court systems, but murder is a type of homicide that can be punishable.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-10-29 00:01

  Quote from Zid;197642:

  Homicide? Homicide is neutral in the legal court systems, but murder is a type of homicide that can be punishable.

  
  
  It's also insulting and implies harmful intentions and the wish to kill.. The word murder, that is.
  
  So in any case, using it over and over can and will offend people no matter where you are.
• Juno wrote on 2010-10-29 00:29

  Quote from Zid;197642:

  Homicide? Homicide is neutral in the legal court systems, but murder is a type of homicide that can be punishable.

  
  
  Would homicide be a better word to use then?
• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-29 00:45

  Quote from Zid;197642:

  Homicide? Homicide is neutral in the legal court systems, but murder is a type of homicide that can be punishable.

  
  
  I guess homicide would be a better word to use then, since it's more neutral and describes the act rather than putting any negatives on it. It's not exactly right to me since I don't view an embryo or something as a human, but that's just my opinion, which cannot be used generally. At least homicide sounds a bit better than murderer.
  
  inb4 Cide comes in.