Most powerful skill in the game?

• Cide wrote on 2010-11-23 04:02

  Quote from gentrone;225272:

  Either with Blaze. 5k damage is rare considering the set up process, normally 2+Blaze would hit no more than 2k on Shadow monsters which is less than Crash Shot can normally hit (given best stat conditions). 1:59 here, she hits 19xx on the first target and the other monsters take 400-500... 4k crits on the main target.
  
  So it's not like Blaze is like omgsoeffinop, it hits just as much as Crash Shot. Then I will have to agree that the skill needed a nerf ONLY on the knockdown bonus but not the skill altogether like they did. Now we get 1200-1600 damage with ideal stats, not fair.

  
  
  then let's take crash shot with a far more down-to-earth and regular scenario: 4 spashed targets and 350 max damage.
  
  (150%*4)350 = 2100. only a bit more than a magnum. this, however, is very variable as crash shot is situational, depending on the number of targets splashed. it can do anywhere from 525 implosion damage all the way up to 3150, if the maximum target number is hit. take this into account as well.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-11-23 04:16
  Crash Shot really isn't meant to be abused for its high damage output anyway. I've never found it useful against bosses (who would need the potential damage output). The initial target receives such high damage because it's the only monster which would agro the player after being struck by the skill. Should you attack a large enough crowd of enemies, you would be virtually invisible to multiagro minus natural agro draw.
  
  Thanks for informing me about the effects (or lack thereof) of campfire on Crash Shot. That's one less advantage of the bow over the crossbow.
• Zid wrote on 2010-11-23 05:17

  Quote from Cide;225413:

  then let's take crash shot with a far more down-to-earth and regular scenario: 4 spashed targets and 350 max damage.
  
  (150%*4)350 = 2100. only a bit more than a magnum. this, however, is very variable as crash shot is situational, depending on the number of targets splashed. it can do anywhere from 525 implosion damage all the way up to 3150, if the maximum target number is hit. take this into account as well.

  
  
  To make a comparison based on your example:
  
  600 Int with r1 Blaze and a Combat Wand vs. 4 targets.
  
  7200 dmg against a single target by knockdown, and 1600 dmg against the other 3. However, Blaze needs to be fully charged by 3 seconds. This is simply not possible if one was N+Blaze-ing a target as the stun of a Combat Wand is around 1.5 seconds. Which means if one was to solo practically with Blaze, it's going to be hard to pull off N+Blaze with a full charge, even with pets and such. Because of this, it's hard to gauge if Blaze should actually be 7200/1600 dmg in a regular situation. Also, at r1 Blaze, it uses up 66 Mana and 18 Stamina at full charge. Blaze also has a 4 second cooldown, and you can only use it within 170 range distance.
  
  For your r1 Crash Shot example (not including master title), you only need 15 Stamina and 15 Mana to pull it off, and the range is dependent on the bow. It's 2100 dmg against initial target and 875 dmg against the 3 other monsters for only 15/15 cost and usually aggro-safe range. 2 second load plus around 3 second for aiming at max range, so that's 5 seconds per use.
  
  In a regular situation like this:
  
  Blaze
  12000 total dmg
  66 MP
  7 seconds
  The ratio of dmg-to-MP is 181.818_ in 7 seconds = 25.974 efficiency only if Blaze is fully charged for a solo N+Blaze, which is not possible.
  
  Crash Shot
  5600 total dmg
  15 MP
  5 seconds
  The ratio of dmg-to-MP is 373.333_ in 5 seconds = 74.6666 efficiency
  
  This is excluding the "danger close" nature of Blaze and its aggroing properties compared to Crash Shot's incomparably farther range and its aggroing properties. Also, not every mages carry a Combat Wand, compared to an archer carrying bows that aren't as differentiating.
• Cide wrote on 2010-11-23 05:33

  Quote from Zid;225615:

  To make a comparison based on your example:
  
  600 Int with r1 Blaze and a Combat Wand vs. 4 targets.
  
  7200 dmg against a single target by knockdown, and 1600 dmg against the other 3. However, Blaze needs to be fully charged by 3 seconds. This is simply not possible if one was N+Blaze-ing a target as the stun of a Combat Wand is around 1.5 seconds. Which means if one was to solo practically with Blaze, it's going to be hard to pull off N+Blaze with a full charge, even with pets and such. Because of this, it's hard to gauge if Blaze should actually be 7200/1600 dmg in a regular situation. Also, at r1 Blaze, it uses up 66 Mana and 18 Stamina at full charge. Blaze also has a 4 second cooldown, and you can only use it within 170 range distance.
  
  For your r1 Crash Shot example (not including master title), you only need 15 Stamina and 15 Mana to pull it off, and the range is dependent on the bow. It's 2100 dmg against initial target and 875 dmg against the 3 other monsters for only 15/15 cost and usually aggro-safe range. 2 second load plus around 3 second for aiming at max range, so that's 5 seconds per use.
  
  In a regular situation like this:
  
  Blaze
  12000 total dmg
  66 MP
  7 seconds
  The ratio of dmg-to-MP is 181.818_ in 7 seconds = 25.974 efficiency only if Blaze is fully charged for a solo N+Blaze, which is not possible.
  
  Crash Shot
  5600 total dmg
  15 MP
  5 seconds
  The ratio of dmg-to-MP is 373.333_ in 5 seconds = 74.6666 efficiency
  
  This is excluding the "danger close" nature of Blaze and its aggroing properties compared to Crash Shot's incomparably farther range and its aggroing properties. Also, not every mages carry a Combat Wand, compared to an archer carrying bows that aren't as differentiating.

  
  
  if you're an elf and shooting at a medium distance, it's closer to 7 seconds, and i said splashed four targets, not 3. 5 targets in all. 1 original hit/imploded back, 4 splashed.
  
  apart from those minor details, you still can't hit 30-40k crits with crash shot, lol. comparing sheer dps is stupid, because elf magnum trumps them both, especially in fs.
  
  what i wanna know is why support shot affects blaze's explosion.
• gentrone wrote on 2010-11-23 05:55
  Because you're not comparing the two skills evenly.
  
  

  Quote from Cid:

  you still can't hit 30-40k crits with crash shot

  
  
  You can't with Blaze either. If you want to truly grasp the real nature of a skill, just analyze it alone or, ceteris paribus, as I like to say. We know for a fact that Support Shot should only enhance melee damage and neither Blaze nor Crash Shot qualify, so leave that stupidly high damage aside because it is a product of a bug or glitch w/e.
  
  Even if it was intended to have this effect, it's not the Blaze skill that should be nerfed but Support Shot. See my logic? So your statement of Blaze's damage>Crash Shot's has no solid foundation as Zid and I have just proved. In other words, if you compare them both under the same circumstances, Crash Shot is even more efficient. Then, should you really say Blaze deserved a nerf? I think not.
  
  If you still think that way then you should be consequential and say Crash Shots needs to be nerfed as well.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-11-23 06:21

  Quote from gentrone;225677:

  Because you're not comparing the two skills evenly.
  
  
  
  You can't with Blaze either. If you want to truly grasp the real nature of a skill, just analyze it alone or, ceteris paribus, as I like to say. We know for a fact that Support Shot should only enhance melee damage and neither Blaze nor Crash Shot qualify, so leave that stupidly high damage aside because it is a product of a bug or glitch w/e.
  
  Even if it was intended to have this effect, it's not the Blaze skill that should be nerfed but Support Shot. See my logic? So your statement of Blaze's damage>Crash Shot's has no solid foundation as Zid and I have just proved. In other words, if you compare them both under the same circumstances, Crash Shot is even more efficient. Then, should you really say Blaze deserved a nerf? I think not.
  
  If you still think that way then you should be consequential and say Crash Shots needs to be nerfed as well.

  
  
  Support shot works for Blaze. I saw a vid of some like. 30-40k+ crit
• Jando wrote on 2010-11-23 07:02

  Quote from Aubog007;225723:

  Support shot works for Blaze. I saw a vid of some like. 30-40k+ crit

  
  
  We know that already. Video was posted earlier in the thread with Blaze doing 43k explosion damage with support shot and 3 second charge blaze.
• Cide wrote on 2010-11-23 07:48

  Quote from Jando;225738:

  We know that already. Video was posted earlier in the thread with Blaze doing 43k explosion damage with support shot and 3 second charge blaze.

  
  
  gentrone doesn't seem to get this, clearly
• Jando wrote on 2010-11-23 08:12
  Wonder if Support Shot works with Crash Shot's implosion damage aswell.
• Lolicon wrote on 2010-11-23 08:29
  Honestly, when are you ever going to need to do 43K...? Besides Golden Apple, you really don't need it.
  
  Back at the original question: Looking at this thread, Blaze seems to be the highest single-damaging skill in the game, only when you set it up. Which is exactly why it needed a nerf.
• Justified wrote on 2010-11-23 08:41

  Quote from Cide;225748:

  gentrone doesn't seem to get this, clearly

  
  
  Because I'm too lazy to click that link, was this in NA Mabi? Or has anybody been able to replicate it?
  
  Since it is an exploit, arguing how much better Blaze is on that grounds isn't fair. Especially if it's not even in our servers.
  
  
  Also, try using Blaze in a full party of 8 and see how many times you manage to hit a max damage explosion. Because 90% of the time you'll just stand there frozen as an enemy was knocked away from you since nobody else cares what you're doing, even if you'd be 20x stronger than them. Seeing Blaze do 10k crits and actually using Blaze are two different things.
• Cide wrote on 2010-11-23 08:45

  Quote from Justified;225756:

  Because I'm too lazy to click that link, was this in NA Mabi? Or has anybody been able to replicate it?
  
  Since it is an exploit, arguing how much better Blaze is on that grounds isn't fair. Especially if it's not even in our servers.
  
  
  Also, try using Blaze in a full party of 8 and see how many times you manage to hit a max damage explosion. Because 90% of the time you'll just stand there frozen as an enemy was knocked away from you since nobody else cares what you're doing, even if you'd be 20x stronger than them. Seeing Blaze do 10k crits and actually using Blaze are two different things.

  
  
  yes, it's been replicated in NA. if you want i'll bother slaco to come in and tell you all about it, lol. his guild leader hit 30k crits with support blaze, so he told me.
• Jando wrote on 2010-11-23 08:46
  What about in Peaca Int when strategy and successful party play is vital?
• jking012 wrote on 2010-11-23 11:58
  well assuming anything goes... this one time ... in band camp... nvm.... lol
  
  uhm well there was this 1 time when a packet editor changed the duel % to like 127752% and regular crit hit me for like 10 mil dmg give or take a few 1's 6's or 4's?
  
  *well you didnt say LEGIT* ~_~ i weep for the community of mabinogi QQ .....
  
  *Angered at the packet editors of mabi* :(
  
  EDIT* : this was back in g7 >.> (haven't come across a duel % PE'r since)
• Zid wrote on 2010-11-23 15:22

  Quote from Jerain;225754:

  Honestly, when are you ever going to need to do 43K...? Besides Golden Apple, you really don't need it.
  
  Back at the original question: Looking at this thread, Blaze seems to be the highest single-damaging skill in the game, only when you set it up. Which is exactly why it needed a nerf.

  
  
  Only when you set it up. As much as Fireball in the same way.
  
  Support Blaze is way too situational to be used regularly as Fireball, for example. There also doesn't seem to be any valid explanation for Support Shot to affect Blaze's explosion, other than maybe it's an exploit. Should Blaze be nerfed for a pure teamwork opportunity that only lasts for less than one second and only if it's fully charged (meaning not N+Blaze, the common way to do Blaze)?
  
  Blaze's extent of its power is only common through testing/showing off, or through very situational teamwork (so Peaca Intermediate isn't a good example), in my opinion. Solo-wise and used in a regular grind, compared to other skill sets, it barely shows good efficiency. When's the last time anyone seen a Blaze main-er grind a popular Hard SM? If there is any, what's the ratio of that group to other groups (based on different style of play)?