Fiona's weapon for soloing

• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-22 14:48

  Quote from heretic304;257358:

  
  -snip-

  
  
  HOLY CRAP.
  Anyhow, I know you put a lot of work into it, but it doesn't really make sense. Just simplify it:
  Hammer and Sword Fionas will almost identical W.ATK. Maybe a 200 difference.
  Then, percentages matter, and the hammer percentages are HUGE. Maybe I'm just not understanding what your post is saying, but I get the impression you're saying that Swords will deal more damage most of the time, but the numbers I'm seeing in this guide tell me otherwise.
  
  Three Blossom Blows add up to do .20
  A Stigma level 0 does .24
  that's 20% more damage o_o
  
  Maybe we should talk about this ingame, I really don't get it :(
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-22 17:48

  Quote from Tasha;257376:

  It's easier to counter with a sword.

  
  
  Its the exact same thing.
  
  

  Quote from babohtea;257562:

  
  Three Blossom Blows add up to do .20
  A Stigma level 0 does .24
  that's 20% more damage o_o
  
  Maybe we should talk about this ingame, I really don't get it :(

  
  
  It wasn't stigma. It was the hammer's regular 4th hit.
  In comparison to my exaggerated claim that hammer's regular combat attacks can do as much damage as a low count sword smash. I'm satisfied with those numbers actually.
• heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-22 18:04
  Yea sorry, I should have been more clear. This is just to illustrate Cucurbita's statement that Hammer normals can match that of blossom blow. It's already a given that the hammer smashes are pretty high compared to sword smashes, but if you look closely at the damage charts, none of them scream double or triple, unless you're trying to compare the normal hits, which most sword users will intentionally miss, or comparing a 3 charge stigma, but that takes so much time to do that it pretty much lowers your DPS.
  
  You should also remember that the charts do not explain the damage per second, only damage per hit. So until we have a good time frame for each attack, like the ones that Bakuryu has for sword, we cannot exactly say that Hammer completely outdamages sword, especially if the Damage Per Second is lowered due to the animations, as well as the need to play a bit more carefully since the hammer animations prevent timely Heavy Stander Cancels.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-22 18:10

  Quote from heretic304;257675:

  Yea sorry, I should have been more clear. This is just to illustrate Cucurbita's statement that Hammer normals can match that of blossom blow. It's already a given that the hammer smashes are pretty high compared to sword smashes, but if you look closely at the damage charts, none of them scream double or triple, unless you're trying to compare the normal hits, which most sword users will intentionally miss, or comparing a 3 charge stigma, but that takes so much time to do that it pretty much lowers your DPS.
  
  You should also remember that the charts do not explain the damage per second, only damage per hit. So until we have a good time frame for each attack, like the ones that Bakuryu has for sword, we cannot exactly say that Hammer completely outdamages sword, especially if the Damage Per Second is lowered due to the animations, as well as the need to play a bit more carefully since the hammer animations prevent timely Heavy Stander Cancels.

  
  
  I'm gonna go give this a physical run through sometime today or tomorrow to compare dps.
• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-26 22:04
  All of this debate previously has been about soloing RAIDS, right? I'm fairly sure both classes can solo the other, smaller battles quite evenly - even in future boats?
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-26 22:14
  Oh no. If we're going solo raids, I have to admit Swords will have an advantage more often than hammer in a speed run.
  
  We're just going "overall gameplay", though we're ignoring trash mobs from the discussions since no one cares about those.
• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-26 22:45

  Quote from Cucurbita;263674:

  Oh no. If we're going solo raids, I have to admit Swords will have an advantage more often than hammer in a speed run.
  
  We're just going "overall gameplay", though we're ignoring trash mobs from the discussions since no one cares about those.

  
  
  Well if you factor in that hammers clear normal mobs faster, but are slower against bosses, wouldn't that mean they're around the same speed for soloing normal battles?
  
  It might change in later boats though..
• Papa wrote on 2010-12-26 22:50

  Quote from babohtea;263703:

  Well if you factor in that hammers clear normal mobs faster, but are slower against bosses, wouldn't that mean they're around the same speed for soloing normal battles?
  
  It might change in later boats though..

  
  
  There is no outstanding difference between Hammer and Sword Boss kill times as there is between Spear and Sword. Or Scythe and Staff(lol).
  
  ...if there even is any.
• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-26 23:00

  Quote from Papa;263709:

  There is no outstanding difference between Hammer and Sword Boss kill times as there is between Spear and Sword. Or Scythe and Staff(lol).
  
  ...if there even is any.

  
  
  But hammers are hard on boat 7. What exactly causes this?
• Papa wrote on 2010-12-26 23:07

  Quote from babohtea;263717:

  But hammers are hard on boat 7. What exactly causes this?

  
  
  To you, Hammers are hard because you read that hammers are hard.
  
  Just like it was mentioned for boat 3, then boat 4, and now boat 5, despite me playing on boat 5 every day.
  
  People overvalue instant survival, because theyre not good enough to completely over-analyze every boss to its every move. Some characters are undoubtedly better at some enemies, like Scythe being superior against Red Tyrant compared to Lann and Fiona. But Hammer will only fall behind if you believe every opinion you read, and frankly, if you suck at playing.
  
  Hammer will definitely take more skill to be as good, or to surpass Sword. Knowledge of the boss and reflex, is all you ever need in this game. For any weapon.
• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-26 23:20

  Quote from babohtea;263669:

  All of this debate previously has been about soloing RAIDS, right? I'm fairly sure both classes can solo the other, smaller battles quite evenly - even in future boats?

  
  
  I would just like to say that on one of the boat 7 raids, you hardly have time to do anything other than block. You can't really do much but counter until he's stunned before you want to attack, and wait till you have enough SP for Shield Rush.
• Yanm wrote on 2010-12-26 23:28

  Quote from Papa;263721:

  To you, Hammers are hard because you read that hammers are hard.
  
  Just like it was mentioned for boat 3, then boat 4, and now boat 5, despite me playing on boat 5 every day.
  
  People overvalue instant survival, because theyre not good enough to completely over-analyze every boss to its every move. Some characters are undoubtedly better at some enemies, like Scythe being superior against Red Tyrant compared to Lann and Fiona. But Hammer will only fall behind if you believe every opinion you read, and frankly, if you suck at playing.
  
  Hammer will definitely take more skill to be as good, or to surpass Sword. Knowledge of the boss and reflex, is all you ever need in this game. For any weapon.

  
  QFT.....Whenever I face a new boss, I NEVER rush right in and start hacking and slashing. I tend to kite it, running around, observing all of it's attacks. Then, once I've seen them all, I begin to attack, figuring out which attack style is best too use. I'm generally an offensive type of person, but I prefer to play smart and not make many mistakes against anything. I'm a Sword Lann btw.
• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-27 00:49

  Quote from Papa;263721:

  To you, Hammers are hard because you read that hammers are hard.
  
  Just like it was mentioned for boat 3, then boat 4, and now boat 5, despite me playing on boat 5 every day.
  
  People overvalue instant survival, because theyre not good enough to completely over-analyze every boss to its every move. Some characters are undoubtedly better at some enemies, like Scythe being superior against Red Tyrant compared to Lann and Fiona. But Hammer will only fall behind if you believe every opinion you read, and frankly, if you suck at playing.
  
  Hammer will definitely take more skill to be as good, or to surpass Sword. Knowledge of the boss and reflex, is all you ever need in this game. For any weapon.

  
  
  Actually, to ME, hammers are not harder than swords. As of now, they are just different, and I love the way they feel. However, afkalmighty told me that hammers become very difficult in Boat 7. And yes, he did specifically only say boat 7. So I decided to ask people that might have played boat 7 to enlighten me. Maybe I should have been more clear in my original question, but I am a little offended by your assumptions of what you think I know.
• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-27 00:55
  ^ I think you need to get a little relaxed if you're going to be on the internet. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you, he was just using a harsh tone. The same as the one you just used.
  
  As for the question, I don't know much about boat 7, but I do know that Chiulin attacks like a crazy. Hammers will have a hard time simply doing one normal attack and then blocking.
• babohtea wrote on 2010-12-27 00:59

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;263839:

  ^ I think you need to get a little relaxed if you're going to be on the internet. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you, he was just using a harsh tone. The same as the one you just used.
  
  As for the question, I don't know much about boat 7, but I do know that Chiulin attacks like a crazy. Hammers will have a hard time simply doing one normal attack and then blocking.

  
  
  I wouldn't get so mad if it wasn't the same guy who previously bashed my signature because of the levels I put down.
  but you're right. rage is bad.
  
  If hammers can only get one attack in, how would sword users do better? And this is assuming you're the target of his aggro, right?