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Adelynn wrote on 2011-01-04 23:46
My problem with the old class system is that I couldn't "maximize" for my specific class. Me? I'm an archer, but archers need to be able to rank life skills, and with the old system, only merchants could rank life skills. So in order to be an archer, I HAVE to be a merchant at some point or another, and not an archer. Stats for "archers" are spread all over the place, so I'd have to RB all over the place to just TRAIN certain skills. There's also the fact that I plan on hybridizing eventually.
What? I work twice as hard and am not allowed to use my hard work? If you want to specialize, then just don't rank certain things. Realize that some people work VERY hard in order to be able to use more than one form of combat. It's not as easy as saying "I'm going to be an elf that uses range AND melee" and it magically happens. No, it doesn't. If I'm going to do both, then I still have to work for both, still have to train all the skills, still have to use all the AP. Personally, I found the old class system very restricting, meaning that people will "max out" on their selective skills even faster. Then what are they left to do?
If people want to be more than one thing, let them. The versatility in this game is what makes it so fun. It's not like whoever hybridizes magically farts stats out of their ass. They have to work for them too.
If I sound snarky it's not intentional. I'm just not very eloquent. 8D
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gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 23:55
Quote from Vejosa;275506:
I agree with you Everwanderer, there were many new skills in the database during the old system dedicated to the job classes that we will probably never see again, such as Berserker for knights, Teleport for Mages(yes teleport, i'd gladly give up windmill for this), Dagger Mastery for adventurer etc etc.
We will probably get dagger mastery, staff/wand mastery but I doubt we will see berserker or teleport.
The reason why the class system was added in the first place was so the developers could add more skills, they felt players were getting too strong, Combat power and AP is not enough to restrict, there is no limit. Having no limit in this kind of game can be good and bad, it attracts players to the game but it causes players to get bored quickly. Maybe NA doesn't have this problem since we have not been around as long as Korea, but Korean mabinogi probably faces this problem.
In the end you have to ask yourself, would you rather skills be restricted and classes to be added OR would you rather mabinogi shut down due to frustration of the developers and Mabinogi 2 added with a class system in place.
Wait, what?
TELEPORT?!
GEEZUS.
I agree with you completely.
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Malogg wrote on 2011-01-05 00:25
Quote from Adelynn;276080:
My problem with the old class system is that I couldn't "maximize" for my specific class. Me? I'm an archer, but archers need to be able to rank life skills, and with the old system, only merchants could rank life skills. So in order to be an archer, I HAVE to be a merchant at some point or another, and not an archer. Stats for "archers" are spread all over the place, so I'd have to RB all over the place to just TRAIN certain skills. There's also the fact that I plan on hybridizing eventually.
What? I work twice as hard and am not allowed to use my hard work? If you want to specialize, then just don't rank certain things. Realize that some people work VERY hard in order to be able to use more than one form of combat. It's not as easy as saying "I'm going to be an elf that uses range AND melee" and it magically happens. No, it doesn't. If I'm going to do both, then I still have to work for both, still have to train all the skills, still have to use all the AP. Personally, I found the old class system very restricting, meaning that people will "max out" on their selective skills even faster. Then what are they left to do?
If people want to be more than one thing, let them. The versatility in this game is what makes it so fun. It's not like whoever hybridizes magically farts stats out of their ass. They have to work for them too.
If I sound snarky it's not intentional. I'm just not very eloquent. 8D
[SIZE="6"]Then don't choose a class. [/SIZE]
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Adelynn wrote on 2011-01-05 00:42
I'd choose a current class, I wouldn't choose any of the old ones. I heard there would be negatives with this as well (like not being able to advance content-wise) that I hoped were just rumors, back when everyone first heard about the whole class thing. Anyway, at the end, it seemed like staying Adventurer wasn't quite worth it either.
I'm still confined by AP anyway, and if people don't want to hybridize themselves, than that's more AP for their specific skills. Even if someone randomly got Ice Spear, it's not going to be as great as the Ice Spear of someone who really considers themselves a mage and worked for their stats...
My point in the first post being: If someone wants to work twice as hard as someone else to be more than one class, then they should be allowed to use their hard work to the max too. That's why I prefer the new system. It's versatility-friendly while still allowing people to choose if they want to.
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Everwanderer wrote on 2011-01-05 00:46
Quote from DarkLord7;276196:
[SIZE="6"]Then don't choose a class. [/SIZE]
Did you read her post? her complaint is pretty valid. Many dedicated players had already sacrificed a good deal of time maxing out their combat capabilities (ie, life skills) and now with the old class system they would get the middle finger.
I'm a strong defender of the old system, but even I can see it's faults, it wasn't flawless and Devcat had to adresss those issues.
Calm down, bro~
Quote from Adelynn;276241:
I'd choose a current class, I wouldn't choose any of the old ones. I heard there would be negatives with this as well (like not being able to advance content-wise) that I hoped were just rumors, back when everyone first heard about the whole class thing. Anyway, at the end, it seemed like staying Adventurer wasn't quite worth it either.
I'm still confined by AP anyway, and if people don't want to hybridize themselves, than that's more AP for their specific skills. Even if someone randomly got Ice Spear, it's not going to be as great as the Ice Spear of someone who really considers themselves a mage and worked for their stats...
My point in the first post being: If someone wants to work twice as hard as someone else to be more than one class, then they should be allowed to use their hard work to the max too. That's why I prefer the new system. It's versatility-friendly while still allowing people to choose if they want to.
The main issue with the new system is that it's pretty effing obvious they came up with a half assed response to all those protests. It doesn't change anything, it doesn't innovate, it only makes things easier and less interesting, thus, shortening the game's life span.
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Kenero wrote on 2011-01-05 00:53
I honestly believe that the class system/restriction and exclusives were a good idea (though I don't agree with the disabling of stats or not being able to rank other skill's trees such as Life skills for archers or even potion making/herbalism, no windmill etc.) but it was poorly executed by devCat. If they talk with the players first, they would probably release it more or less with what they had in mind.
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Zeo wrote on 2011-01-05 00:55
Oh wow, Adelynn, and the way you choose the words is so beautifully done. I would use that exactly same reason against why I disliked the old class system. And Darklord, stop using that excuse against everyone who is against the old classes system, please. :I
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mangaholic95 wrote on 2011-01-05 01:01
im confused, there was an older class system?
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Malogg wrote on 2011-01-05 01:45
Quote from Everwanderer;276256:
Did you read her post? her complaint is pretty valid. Many dedicated players had already sacrificed a good deal of time maxing out their combat capabilities (ie, life skills) and now with the old class system they would get the middle finger.
I'm a strong defender of the old system, but even I can see it's faults, it wasn't flawless and Devcat had to adresss those issues.
Calm down, bro~
I know, and I don't think it was perfect, either. However, if she just stays adventurer, then she isn't loosing her life skills or anything, is she? And the argument that 'it's not fair how we get bonuses and hybrids get nothing' is very weak. Because, as I already said, it makes sense that a specialized fighter would be stronger than a hybrid. (Unless that hybrid worked
really hard, and had R1 everything in those tabs. In such a case, I say that having mastered two fighting styles is reward enough. They don't need a class.) Nonetheless, I think the best solution has been stated a few times already, that classes should only be post G13 skills.
I do respect Adelynn's argument, though. I
can understand where she is coming from, unlike Zeo who has absolutely no logic.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2011-01-05 01:54
Quote from DarkLord7;276367:
I know, and I don't think it was perfect, either. However, if she just stays adventurer, then she isn't loosing her life skills or anything, is she? And the argument that 'it's not fair how we get bonuses and hybrids get nothing' is very weak. Because, as I already said, it makes sense that a specialized fighter would be stronger than a hybrid. Nonetheless, I think the best solution has been stated a few times already, that classes should only be post G13 skills.
I do respect Adelynn's argument, though. I can understand where she is coming from, unlike Zeo who has absolutely no logic.
1. Play nice. These are not the official forums.
2. The older class system disabled certain skills (and the stat bonuses obtained through ranking them) should you choose to align yourself with any job other than Adventurer. People generally feel that the older system was poorly designed and i'm inclined to agree. That being said, the system which replaced it might as well not exist in my opinion. A mix of the two would be ideal. Less restricting than the first one but with more impact than the second.
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Ryoko wrote on 2011-01-05 02:02
Good luck to those in G10 finals with Life Drain. :D
But I'd think they'd be smarter than that...
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Adelynn wrote on 2011-01-05 02:10
Quote from Kaeporo;276388:
1. Play nice. These are not the official forums.
I smiled at that, honestly. That being said, it is very important make it so that if we want to discuss things, we don't get the thread locked. Comments like that
I won't claim that either of them is perfect, but as far as not getting the middle finger, the second gives me less of it than the first. I know that the idea of classes is still interesting, but it should have been done closer to the beginning. I understand they probably didn't know how successful the game would be, but at this point the class system feels pretty intrusive or of "not enough impact". The charm in the game for me is being able to branch out. It's very easy to be a "class" even if no class system was implemented. It all depends on what you rank, what you choose to ignore, what you choose to make your strongest point.
I started posting about how I'd create classes but I'm busy reading Lord of the Rings. Maybe I'll post it later. 8D
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Zeo wrote on 2011-01-05 02:16
Pretty much what Kaeporo said. I'm against the old class system, I'm going to say for one more time. It's only because I do not want to be restricted to any skills, after I've worked hard to get those to r1 before G13.
I tried to respect your opinion about this as well, DarkLord7, but it's hard to do so if you're going to be rude about it, and it is not necessary to be rude about this as well. We're just having the discussions, plus... we don't want to turn this into flame war.
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gentrone wrote on 2011-01-05 02:24
In the end it's nice to have different points of view, all in the same thread, each having valid arguments. And more importantly, they are understood and accepted by everybody despite the fact that they don't agree.
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Adelynn wrote on 2011-01-05 02:31
Quote from Ryoko;276414:
Good luck to those in G10 finals with Life Drain. :D
But I'd think they'd be smarter than that...
Oh my gosh, I'd completely forgotten this part! I do think Alchemists were the only ones that could use that skill. XD